nfd2004

Since this topic was started back on May 25th (2016), I feel this has been one of the most important topics facing the Fire Service of today. It has given each one of us an opportunity to tell our side of the story. In my own case, I tried to explain of a War Zone some 100 miles or so from Westchester County. Apparently where similar places seem to be having these problems as well. And in the middle of this War Zone is a Combination Fire Department that functions as well today as they did back when I became a member back in 1970. Although as I understand today, the number of those volunteers has been on the steady decline as it is on a Nationwide basis. We also know of other places where the combination system works as well, such as that County Fire Department where that Retired Army Colonial is. The problems do not seem to exist where it is either ALL Volunteer or ALL Career. The problem basically seems to exist where there is a Combination of Career and Volunteers, all serving under a specific geographical area. So it seems that we can narrow this problem down and focus mainly on how to solve it. Just as a suggestion, if you are a volunteer firefighter or a career firefighter within one of these combination departments having these issues, maybe you can come up with some facts on how to help solve this. Many of you are the future leaders of the Fire Service. This type of behavior can not exist much longer. It's not really about who is right or who is wrong. Its about the people who depend on it. It's also about a group of individuals who are sometimes willing to risk their life for others. Brotherhood or not, "United we Stand - Divided we Fall". The one thing that was in common with the success stories of the two combination departments I mentioned was that they put the career fire department in charge. One career chief and career officers that were held accountable for the training and safe operations of its fire department. In the case of where I was a volunteer firefighter, it was a career captain that trained the volunteers one evening per week. The same career captain that trained those career guys. It was one volunteer chief who represented the volunteer firefighters assigned to that particular firehouse. He worked directly with that training captain. Of the Five career stations, three had a group of volunteer firefighters assigned to them and each of the three had its own volunteer chief. There were no other volunteer officers. By the way, the population of this town is about 61,000 people. So that's a system that works. So now we travel about 75 miles away to my hometown location where I describe it as nothing short of an "Active War Zone". There are Six totally separate, fully independent fire districts, all with their own budgets, volunteer officers, and individual policies. There are Five totally volunteer districts with their individual volunteer chiefs and one totally career department led by one career chief. There are more pieces of fire apparatus than Connecticut's largest city - Bridgeport. This past January an order was placed for 100 airpacks at a cost of $800,000. And that was for only Four of the departments, not counting the other two. Again, Connecticut's largest city doesn't have 100 plus airpacks. All right here in our town of 40,000 people. All right here in our town of about 107,000 people LESS than the largest Connecticut city. We all have our chance to speak on here. What's your thoughts ? Would you make any changes or recommendations in any of the above cases ? Here you have your chance to go with or against what you feel is right or wrong.

"FireMedic049", I think you explain a very simple case very well. As I mentioned earlier, I have many friends who are volunteer firefighters. We don't compete with each other, we are just buddies and most of us are all into the fire service. In some cases, I don't try to compete because I really can't. One volunteer friend is a retired US Army Colonial. Another was a Banking Manager at a very large bank. Another was a Con Edison supervisor responsible for about 600 square miles of natural gas mains from some of NYs larger cities to mansions of the rich and famous. Another was an executive accountant in a large firm. Some are/were even fulltime firefighters in major cities, who saw much more action than I did but volunteer firefighters in their small hometowns. And me, I was a firefighter in some small city that most people never knew existed. "I" didn't even know it existed until a career firefighter, where I was a volunteer, told me about it. And then there's my doctor friend working in Philadelphia. He was a volunteer firefighter too, as well as a career firefighter. He's been on both sides of the fence. Yet he hasn't forgotten where he came from. He respects firefighters who are both on the payroll and those who are not. As a volunteer in a combination department, we supplemented the career firefighters. We were not out to hurt them, but help them. Most of us were all wanna bes and those career guys really helped put many of us on the right track. Because most of us young volunteers all became career firefighters somewhere. We had a "volunteer" chief who was our boss and basically the middle man between the career guys and us. He would tell us; "those guys do this thing fulltime, you do what they say". (RIP Chief Les Hartman) The retired US Army Colonial I talk about is a volunteer firefighter in a large county department. One night a week is his assigned duty night. When he goes into that firehouse he reports to the Career Fire Capt who gives him his assignment on where to ride. There is one volunteer allowed to ride each piece and there are four pieces in that firehouse. It's known as one of the busiest firehouses in the country. He does what he is told by those members, no questions asked. He told me that himself. and this guy was a US Army Colonial. Oh yes, I forgot to mention, "he was in charge of the entire U.S. Army Operation during 9/11 in NYC". Now he rides a fire truck doing what he is told by his Brother Career Firefighters. The Volunteers there do have one request however. When they have their fund raisers they usually donate that money to buy equipment for the county. The only thing they ask is that they are able to have the word "Volunteer" on the side of the vehicles they buy. Just to let the people know that the volunteer members bought and paid for this truck through their fund raisers saving the taxpayers money. What a difference only a few hours away. After a visit there, I come back home to reality. To a place where people have hated me for what I did as a job. There is no love between those career guys and the volunteers even today. In fact it might be worse now than when I started back in 1975. I guess about the best way to put it is called "A Tale of Two City's". I think they wrote a book or made a movie about that. Only it wasn't about it's fire department. Things could change for the best if we allow it to happen. In my own case, a city could be forced into change or leave themselves wide open for a legal lawsuit should things go sour. What's worse is innocent people or even firefighters, along with their families, could pay a much higher price than that, if this city isn't willing to change.

Just by the shear nature of a career firefighter being a fulltime job, how can anyone dispute that. In no way is that to put down any volunteer firefighters who are out there saving lives and protecting the public. As I travel across the country or across the state, I come across many areas where the general public, including myself, depend on these volunteer firefighters. Who do we all depend on to get us out of a car should we get in an accident and are pinned in the car. Yes, it's those volunteer firefighters. But to try and compare the training level of a fulltime career firefighter to most volunteer firefighters is like trying to compare the training level of a paramedic to a doctor. Both save lives but can the amount of training and education be equally compared. Interesting, but just as a side note here, I have a friend who fit into all of those categories. He was once a volunteer firefighter here in Connecticut, as well as a paramedic for a commercial ambulance company, responding to medical emergencies in one of Connecticut's largest city's. He later became a career firefighter in a mid sized city in Connecticut, including attending the rigorous 14-16 week recruit school. After about 3 years as a fulltime career firefighter he left the job to begin his new career. That of becoming a doctor in one of Philadelphia's largest hospital emergency rooms. "Well Dr Timmy D., where are you when we need you". "I'm sure you can help us all out with this discussion".

"AFS1970", I am wrong right at the beginning. I just assumed you were a career firefighter in Stamford. I have a good friend there who is assigned to one of the busiest companies in the city. He is also a volunteer firefighter in another place. The guy knows his stuff no doubt about that. There is no question when he shows up on a rig if he is fully qualified. Not just interior or exterior. Let me also commend you on your service to your community as a former volunteer firefighter. Let me also commend you on your public safety job. It is quite possible that many could not do that job. Thank you for serving the citizens who depend on you. I have many friends who are also volunteer firefighters who I have a high degree of respect for what they do. I don't put them into the category of some of my local volunteers. In other words, I don't blame a whole group of people for the action of a few". As for the senior man getting the drivers job, I think "Bnechis" explained that perfectly well in his above statement. As to the request for mutual aid, the issue I mentioned never had anything to do with calling for a special piece of apparatus. If that were the case, there would be no issue. As for the fact that many departments do not send their career firefighters to Recruit School, I disagree with that. Except for maybe Hartford or New Haven, which might have the same intense training program. Most today including Bridgeport do send new firefighters to that 16 week fulltime course. During every graduation ceremony there are guys graduating from just about every career department around. Do I question the training that you have had as a volunteer firefighter. Not at all, Your training can be far above that of most firefighters. Do I believe that those who attend recruit school can safely and efficiently operate on the fireground or the incident scene, "there is no doubt in my mind" on that. I have seen those results myself. I would also like to commend your co workers son on taking that Recruit Class. It is a very difficult project to accomplish. Anyone who has been through it would tell you that. He will certainly know his stuff as a volunteer firefighter when he is finished. I was always amazed at the things these guys knew when they graduated. I know some places today are requiring recruit school before applying for the firefighters job. In those cases, recruit school generally must be completed within a five year period of date of the exam. In mentioning the training and qualifications, just randomly ask a firefighter to start up the saw. Can he/she do it without any problems. Ask them what blade they would use to cut a case hardened lock. Ask them to explain the method of cutting open a roof. If possible get a few wooden pallets, cover them with plywood and have them make a few cuts. Have him make these cuts in full gear and air pack use. Would you trust this guy on a smoky roof ? Could you do this ? Now how many qualified firefighters do you have ? The question I really have to ask ASF1970 is this. How did you end up clicking on the "Like this" button in my above statement, when there is really nothing in it at all that you agree on ?

"AFS1970", I assume you are a career firefighter in one of Connecticuts largest cities by your location. I was also a career firefighter and it really doesn't take too long to figure out where I am talking about in my stories. My involvement with the newspaper and these stories are no secret in my area. In the statement you make about career departments not calling volunteer departments closer, you are correct. As you know, most career firefighters are required to attend that fulltime 16 week recruit school. They will not graduate if they have not proven they are capable of doing all the jobs. When those mutual aid career firefighters pull up, without any doubt, they are expected to do the job. Whether it be open a roof, do a search, bring in an additional line etc. There is no such thing as interior/exterior firefighters. When a commanding officer calls for any career firefighters he/she knows what to expect of them. If that is not accomplished, somebody will have to answer for that type of behavior. "AFS1970", I assume you also attended some type of recruit school. If not, you are the exception. Do you feel that during that time you gained a greater knowledge and confidence in performing your duties as a career firefighter today. If you were the commanding officer in charge of an incident, which department would you prefer. It was a Volunteer chief who called for a volunteer department almost four times farther away than that career dept (1.8 miles away vs 8.0 miles away). I have tried to explain why it makes sense to call a career fire dept sometimes farther away. But now I'd like someone to explain to me the reasoning for calling a volunteer fire dept farther away instead. As was the case in my true story As to the issue of the senior man becoming a pump operator or ladder operator. Generally speaking each and everyone of us, even those in the best physical condition, age takes it's toll. Chances are that senior pump operator doesn't function as well, working at peak capacity in comparison to a younger member of the department. In addition, if given the choice, most younger members would rather be inside doing the physical work rather than outside running the pump. And none of us should expect it any other way. Professional athletes are not in their peak once they hit their early or mid forty's. Just name some professional football playrers, basketball players, etc that play professional sports at that age. It just doesn't happen. Just as those sports heros are beyond their peak, so too it is with firefighters. Someone has to operate that pump and aerial ladder. Why not offer that job to the senior man where he is no longer required to hustle up flights of stairs wearing heavy gear and carrying heavy equipment even before he starts to work., As a young firefighter, I loved doing the inside work. If I was outside pumping the rig or on the turntable of the aerial, I just felt useless. I remember my father telling me that a firefighters job is a young mans job. He was a career firefighter too. I told him, "I love this job and I'm never going to retire". He told me; "Someday you'll feel different". Not me right !!! Well after about 20-25 years I found out he was right. It was getting harder to run up those stairs. As the officer, I didn't have the option of being the pump operator at the time. This once gung ho firefighter guy who wanted to be in there doing it, was starting to feel it. If the option was there, I would have wanted to do that pump operators thing too. It is still a very necessary job and nobody can put a fire out until they get that water. That job needs to be done and generally speaking it is the perfect position for the senior member. (Including Volunteer firefighters). I hope this was of some help in trying to explain things. Just why it might be a good policy to have the senior man as pump operator and also perhaps why a career dept might call on another career dept, even if farther away than a volunteer dept. And why these might be good policies to do when all of the options are considered.

In the city I have been referring to in my earlier post, there had been serious talks of eliminating 16 firefighter positions from a 60 man dept. This was sparked by one or two city council members who were endorsed by some members of the five local volunteer fire departments. All within the same town of that one career department. Also strongly endorsing this cutback was a full time career union firefighter from another nearby city. The final budget meeting was held last Monday evening June 6th. During the meeting the Mayor spoke ; "this is ONE City, not two and should not be divided". Apparently referring to the One Career Fire Department, separated by the Five Volunteer Depts within the same town. A council member agreed that the city is "horribly divided over this fire tax issue". She said; "If we continue down this road we are going to destroy ourselves". You may remember I had mentioned earlier how the local Volunteer Fire Departments refused to call for that career dept and instead called other volunteer departments farther away and even outside this city's limits. In addition, many of the residents who reside in this area protected by those career firefighters, spoke clearly against a divided city when it comes to its fire protection. The plan to eliminate those 16 career firefighter positions by some council members was to eliminate one battalion chiefs position, a fourth firefighters position for an engine company in a more congested area, and the closing of an additional engine company. The 16 positions broke down as follows. Four positions that needed to be filled, plus the closing of a three man engine company. I must give credit to the Chief of that career department. He sure did a GREAT Job presenting his facts at that earlier budget hearing. Thankfully, he was very well prepared with details to present his case and defend his budget. He was recruited from outside the state to become Chief of Department about 10 years ago. Over the last ten years he has worked very hard to try and improve the relations between the career and volunteer departments. After seeing little improvements made, I met with this career chief as a retired firefighter and resident regarding the very serious incidents that had occurred. I told him it was time to do something about it and I was going to the newspaper with my documented stories. Stories that put civilians, as well as firefighters, (both career and volunteer) at risk. In addition, in some of these cases perhaps more damage resulted as well due to much longer response times. Today I am happy to report that NO career firefighters will loose their jobs. Thankfully to a Chief of Department who prepared himself very well. But no thanks to a few city politicians looking to advance their own political future and a group of frustrated volunteer firefighters who would rather see these guys loose their jobs. Thankfully, these volunteer firefighters do NOT represent ALL volunteer firefighters. The one outside career firefighter who was pushing for the elimination of those firefighters, is also a volunteer firefighter in one of those local five volunteer departments. The only person he really hurt was himself by putting himself in the middle. Now he has lost the trust of TWO departments. The one where he works and the one he tried to push for the elimination of those 16 firefighters. No doubt, his behavior will live with him for a very long time.

Thank you very much "Bnechis" for that information. I certainly appreciate that. Thank you also to the IAFF for their donations to each of these firefighters. I am very happy to see that the Brotherhood is still alive and well. As many here do, I also hope for a positive resolution to end this nightmare that these guys have been put through, as well as bring those firefighters back for the safety of all involved.

I believe there was a meeting scheduled last night (6/6/16) on the fate of those Eight Laid Off Port Chester Firefighters. Was there any decision made on that ?

In a follow up to my above story, I ask the following questions. Maybe someone could answer these. 1) What would be the reason for any chief or incident commander NOT to call for a closer, fully staffed fire dept. But instead a much farther away Unstaffed department ? 2) How could the members of these Volunteer depts. allow and often condone, this type of behavior, putting themselves at much greater risk ? 3) How can the family members and loved ones of the volunteer members allow this as well ? 4) Are these chiefs and/or commanding officers fully aware of the position they are getting themselves into if somebody gets hurt or worse ? 5) Was this a plot used by these volunteer chiefs to show the city, those career firefighters are NOT necessary and perhaps they all can be eliminated ? If that is the case, their own plans just may have completely backfired on them. I am quite sure there are other departments out there that may happen to feel the same way. When people outside of the fire service read a story in the newspaper such as this, "how is that going to reflect on those departments" ? What about people outside of this place, who have family members and friends within those city limits. I would hope that before any article like this appears in the paper, those city leaders and chiefs will put the public's safety first and make a positive change. This has divided an entire city in two. Just as in 1989 a famous wall was torn down, this wall should also be torn down. That famous wall was the Berlin Wall which separated the City of Berlin Germany by east and west, A FREE society and a Dictator society. The late President Reagans words were then, "Tear down this Wall". And that wall was torn down as the entire world watch on our TV screens. Does the Fire Service have strong enough leaders to stand up for what is right ? Or are they just sheep being followed by their flock.

I am currently involved in working with a local newspaper reporter in my hometown. I have been a taxpaying resident here for some 40 plus years. I also spent 30 years as a career firefighter, serving both as a firefighter and officer. When I got the job, after being a volunteer firefighter in a combination department for five years from another town, I had found out that I had apparently entered "A War Zone". Volunteer firefighters would hate me (as well as my Brother Career Firefighters) for the job I had. People that I didn't even know where I came from the other side of the state. A totally different environment from the progressive thinking Combination Fire Department I had just come from. In general, the volunteer firefighters clearly made their case for those career firefighters as being the blame to all of the city's problems. Whenever the opportunity came they would try to cutback or eliminate those career firefighter jobs. Today as a retired firefighter, I continue to support those career firefighters. Yet things did NOT improve at all. Actually I think over the last few years things have gotten worse. So I started to take notes. I had started to notice over the last year and a half or so, of a reluctance for the volunteer chiefs to call for these career firefighters. Despite the fact that there were some very serious incidents and those career firefighters, staffed 24/7, were not being called. Despite the fact that they were much closer and ready to respond. This city I am talking about is made up of One Career Department, staffed 24/7 with 12-13 firefighters, plus a Battalion Chief. They are in the middle of Five totally independent Volunteer Departments, each with their own chiefs, etc. All within the same town carrying a population of about 40,000 people. Over that last 1 1/2 year period, I have documented at least, FOUR Serious Incidents in which this career fire department was either the closest or second closest fire department, yet were never called. All within the same city. One incident involved a very serious Haz Mat leak within a warehouse. While that career fire department, with four specially trained Haz Mat Techs were located about 4 miles away, two UNSTAFFED volunteer departments were called from a farther distance away. In addition a Haz Mat Team responded from some 15 miles away, instead of the local Haz Mat Tech Team. As that farther out of town Haz Mat Officer responded he asked if the closer department had been on scene. No they were NOT. At that point, that responding officer from the 15 mile away Haz Mat team requested they respond. In another incident, a fire comes in for an occupied house. On arrival this is a working house fire. It is home to many with mental or drug issues as a "Halfway House". I work a part time job at this campus. This location is only 1.8 miles away from that career fire department. However as the city decided years ago, this area would be served by a totally volunteer fire department, actually farther away. When this fire broke out, the responding volunteer fire department requested assistance from two other volunteer fire departments, farther away instead. One of those volunteer fire departments (about 5 miles away) drove right by this career firehouse as those guys were outside with hands on training. The other volunteer fire department came from a distance of 8 miles, and actually from an entirely different town. There were other incidents as well, during this time frame in which I fully documented and have forwarded information to that newspaper reporter. In addition in 2008 the same thing happened, except a civilian died in a house fire. All while those career firefighters in the same city did NOT respond, from two miles away. All because of some Fire District policies where each chief gets to do things as they wish. All while those career firefighters, the same firefighters that the taxpayers paid to go to a fulltime 16 week Recruit School, never responded. It should also be known that prior to going to the newspaper, I had met "one on one" with the then City Manager to request a policy change requiring the closest fire departments respond. He told me he would meet with the chiefs to discuss this. Within one week I get his answer. The answer is "No Changes will be made". I didn't know it at the time, but I later find out that he is also a Volunteer firefighter. I have several emails that I have documented and sent to that reporter. I have also met several times with her. She has put a lot of effort into this since I first reported this story to her. Also, since this is now well known throughout the area of the fact that "Somebody is Watching", there have been two incidents involving one of the volunteer fire departments. In the just the last two months, that volunteer fire department has requested the services of that career department TWICE. One of those times were to the "same location" as that working house fire about one year ago. That hasn't happened in about 30 years. In addition to this newspaper reporter, I have been working directly with one city councilman to keep him updated as well. He forwards that updated information to the fire service leaders and other city politicians as well. With these well documented cases, should this news get published in a local newspaper, the city will be forced to make changes. Or I'm sure the city could be held liable for any damage, injures, or even deaths in the future. My biggest mistake is that I wish I had done this before an innocent victim died in a house fire in her home in 2008. Maybe she would be alive today otherwise. This story is entirely true and I am the guy who is fighting for the citizens of this city. Despite the fact that I was WRONGLY ACCUSED of being "coached" by some. In fact in the beginning, my brother firefighters as well as the chief of that career dept tried to discourage me from doing this. But as a Retired Firefighter who knew the system, is a 40 year taxpaying resident, I had every right to pursue this. So I thank you for taking the time to read my story. My goal is to change things in this city before another civilian dies because of these silly games. To prevent more injures or property damage than may be necessary by calling in those career firefighters. For ALL the citizens to be able to use those highly trained and skilled group of career firefighters. Finally, to advise anyone who suffers as a result of this city NOT taking some positive of a past history. Let them hold the city liable if No Changes are made.

A lot of the issue is that here in the northeast, there are so many separate fire districts each with individual leaders. Sometimes each trying to out due the other. A much different case in other areas where everyone works together for one dept and under one boss. A much larger dept under the same rules for all. My home town of 40,000 people has six totally different Fire Depts with six indepentially run operations (one career and five volunteer chiefs). Different rules, different standards, different budgets, different equipment etc. Just spent $800,000 on buying 100 air packs. I don't think Yonkers has that many. And that was only for four of the six depts. Absolutely no comparison between the operations of a large county dept verses these old school fire districts.

If not enough certified "INTERIOR FIREFIGHTERS" show up, who gets to go in and fight the fire or conduct searches in the early stages ? What is Plan B if that's the case. ? How does that affect the "Two In/Two Out Rule" ?

I don't forsee any over night miracles happening. But if these guys get their jobs back and they have a very good backing from the Port Chester Volunteer Firefighters, I would say things are headed in the right direction. If I were one of those eight firefighters, and I saw a decent crowd of volunteer firefighters supporting me, I think that would mean a lot. A Real Strong Brotherhood could develop from this negative blow to the Port Chester Fire Dept. Along with that both volunteer and career firefighters would see that "for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows". I guess that's about the best way to put it. But without a doubt, a lot will be watching. I often travel along I-287 and I-95 to visit a few friends. Along my 100 plus mile trip I see hundreds of signs. But lately, the signs that say "Rye", "Port Chester" and "Harrison" have taken on new meaning. As it stands now, of a place with problems when it comes to its fire service. It sure would be nice if the next time I see those signs I could feel "there's a place so many other cities, towns or villages should follow their lead". I might even stop by and knock on the door to one of those firehouses to tell the guys what a great job you did. I very often show up knocking on the firehouse door, looking like one of those homeless guys. Asking you for some spare change. But have no fear, because "Willy D is here".

Monday night we will all be watching. Will these firefighters be hired back ? Will the volunteer firefighters be working with or against those firefighters ? Will there be any legal action taken by those eight career firefighters by their hired attorney ? Will that attorney request for back pay and benefits as well ? Will those three Fire Chiefs and/or Board Members be there to defend the decision they made ? Who made and how will the statements to damage a firefighters home play out in this decision ? I guess in just a matter of hours from now, we will all find out. Personally I hope for a positive outcome for those eight firefighters. I also hope for a positive and improving relationship between career and volunteer firefighters in Port Chester, NY.

As I read this story, ONCE AGAIN, the innocent people suffer through no fault of their own. Poor fire department leadership is again demonstrated as the cause. Unless the fire service picks leaders who are not involved in protecting their own self image, and care more about the people they are assigned to protect, this kind of story will be repeated over again. Question now is; "who will be next" ?

As I understand it, career firefighters are forced to be laid off by city fire chiefs due to budget issues. As I understand it here, the Village of Rye was paying one million dollars to contract to the village of Port Chester for their fire protection. Was it Port Chester or Rye that laid off these eight firefighters ? Does the responsibility fall on that local group of board members ? Why were those three chiefs removed from their positions if they did nothing wrong ? If Port Chester was having budget problems were there other employees laid off besides all eight of those firefighters ? Were other departments such as education, police etc advised to make similar serious cutbacks due to a budget issue ?

I am glad this topic came up. It tells how some firefighters are NOT impressed at all with "selfies" of firefighters in action. Maybe those "Firefighter Selfie Fans" had no idea just how foolish other firefighters look at this. I have some very good friends in New York, Connecticut, and Rhode Island, who are some of the most decorated firefighters in the northeast. I consider it a very special privilege to be a part of their friendship. They are the Best of the Best. Yet NOT ONE, has ever posed for a "selfie photo op" during their years. Just yesterday (6/1/2016) the FDNY had it's Medal Day where they honor those who went above and beyond. Once a year these members are rewarded and given praise for the work they've done. These members get their chance to get photos taken with their family members, the mayor, fire commissioner etc. There are a few web sites that have posted pictures of these individuals as well. But I highly doubt anyone can find any selfies posted anywhere of any one of these members in action. On the contrary, there are many buffs out there who regularly take photos of firefighters in action. I know because I am one of them. Many times these buffs will take these photos and maybe post them on their own web site or even make up a copy for the firefighter in the picture. As "BIGRED1" also states above, very often a crew shot is taken after a job well done. It is the "OWN SELF IMAGE" that tends to turn off some seasoned firefighters who have been there and done that. You are expected to do a job, and it's not being a Hollywood Model. You're in the wrong occupation if that's what you think is more important. Are you in it (career or volunteer) to help people or promote yourself. Personally, I have little use for any firefighters who use someone's misfortune to promote themselves. However, whether my vote counts or not probably really doesn't matter.

Telling both sides of the story gives the people the entire picture. Had it not been reported as it was, the full story would not have been known. On here we learned: 1) We learned how apparently three fire chiefs were the real reason these eight firefighters were eliminated and lost their jobs, as some here reported they knew nothing about it. 2) We learned how another village was paying one million dollars to Port Chester, basically covering the entire cost of those Port Chester firefighters. 3) We learned how one individual encouraged a group of firefighters to damage another firefighters home. 4) We learned how that group of 8 Port Chester firefighters may seek legal action through an attorney seeking damages on their behalf, which may actually cost the taxpayers more now. This went beyond the fact of a city that couldn't afford to pay for its firefighters. If and when this issue is finally resolved, the City of Port Chester will be known throughout the fire service as a city that allowed three of its fire chiefs to make some very poor decisions. It could be used for future training as "A Lesson to be Learned".

Using pictures or videos as a recruitment campaign is perfectly acceptable. As in the above case it has worked. I would NOT consider that as a "Selfie". I would consider a "Selfie" of a firefighter posing as a more of "A Look at me kind of thing". Sort of like "yes, see I really am that hero that I wanted you to think I was". I must be honest here, most firefighters who really are out there doing the job, don't need to show pictures of themselves in action. They are more concerned about doing the job and helping others than trying to impress everybody just how great they are. "Look at me, here I am - a real firefighter". To that I say; "lol". Some of the most decorated firefighters out there do very little bragging about themselves. They don't pose for selfies. When you ask them about events which they really were a hero, they just write it off as being at the right place at just the right time. When I look at some of these "selfies" out there involving firefighters, "I laugh". If only they knew how foolish they look in the eyes of other firefighters. Anybody got a few selfies they can share with us on here to appreciate.

And HOPEFULLY you want someone to show up that you can trust your life with. Or the life of your family. You want someone who can go inside a burning building, working at peak capacity, who is willing to risk their own life to save yours. Someone to try and save your belongings as well. Some of those belongings of which can NEVER be replaced. Are you willing to accept a 67 year old guy like myself, dressed in a firefighters costume and riding a shiny big fire truck to show up and expect me to perform a job like that. Its dangerous enough for me to climb a ladder on a nice spring day to clean out the gutters on my house. Let alone climb a ladder covered with ice in the middle of some cold winter night. All while wearing 60-80 plus pounds of extra gear. Is there a difference between someone who attended a Firefighter I class or somebody who completed a fulltime, 14-16 week, fire recruit school training ? Of course there is. And anybody involved in the fire service, should realize that. Just as an EMT can save lives the same as a doctor can, the EMT was NOT required to meet the same requirements as that doctor. Does a security guard have the same training as a police officer ? No, but in each one of these positions, there is a mutual respect for each other for similar duties. There is a mutual respect and an understanding between these groups. Yet they all represent some very different training and educational requirements. They depend on each other as well. One of my best friends is a retired U.S. Army Colonel. He was in charge of the entire Army operations during 9/11 in New York City. He has not one, but TWO Masters Degrees. Today he is also a volunteer firefighter. He really enjoys being a volunteer firefighter in a combination career/volunteer fire department. He tells me all the time how he respects career firefighters. I just can't believe the respect this guy has for any career firefighters. He is a volunteer firefighter in one of the busiest firehouses in America. Even as a Retired career firefighter, "I just can't relate to everything he's done". His service to our country and his community goes way beyond what most of us have done. Yet he is the first one who would put career firefighters at the top of his list. He is familiar with the Westchester County area as he grew up in Brooklyn. However, I don't think he is aware of what has been going on in Port Chester or Garden City. The entire group of career firefighters in that firehouse have a huge amount of respect for this guy. He respects them too of course. I know because I've been to that firehouse myself, where both career and volunteer firefighters sat at the dinner table together, talking shop and having a few laughs. "IF ONLY WE COULD BE LIKE THAT" !!!!!!!

"x635", I understand. I would hope that everyone would understand that I was only trying to get some answers to a few questions I posted earlier. I hope I didn't make it appear that I was trying to throw a personnel attack. I only tried to give my explanation of the fact that "a hater I am not". I was successful in accomplishing one of my questions however, in relation to taking prior firefighter exams. I thank "FD7807" for his honesty. I know that has had some bearing on how sometimes people feel about union firefighters. I know that from other similar situations. I was about to let my involvement with "FD7807" rest at this point anyway. I felt we had just about reached any conclusion regarding our feelings on this matter. With that said, I do appreciate the opportunity to express my views in following this very controversial issue. It is a subject that sometimes needs be adjusted to serve those who must depend on the fire service. It doesn't really matter who is right or who is wrong on here. What really matters is that all those people out there can depend on a fire service during their most desperate times. And every firefighter, both career or volunteer, has a serious role to uphold in doing that.

Thank you "FD7807" for taking the time to explain your thoughts here of which you are certainly entitled to. I still however, do not see the answer to a couple of questions that were posed. Its okay, we are not in a court of law. Purely discussing an issue in which we both seem to feel much different about. I have to agree with you on one thing. The stats show that the majority of people depend on the volunteer fire service. Those places are very fortunate to have such individuals. If I was to guess, I'm sure most of those volunteer firefighters would agree there is a place and a need for career firefighters as well. The same as most career firefighters would agree there is a place and a need for volunteer firefighters. In either case, conditions dictate that need. Not a bunch of haters within the fire service. The previous poster "SageVigiles" I know happen to know personally (right Alex). I once made a trip of about 60 miles to meet him, as he was interested in becoming a career firefighter. After some of the testing process of a very busy career fire dept., he decided to make a life time change in his life. He took a position to serve the public in a different way, rather than become a career firefighter in his home town area. He also decided to remain involved in the fire service as a volunteer firefighter. That didn't change the way I feel about him because he chose to be a volunteer firefighter. I think that kind of puts your "hate spewing self" statement somewhat off track. Also let me quote you regarding your number 3 statement above. "I personally have nothing career firefighters". Would that mean you have nothing AGAINST career firefighters ? I would suggest that as an individual, you don't know me as well. I asked you to please explain some of your statements and if you have ever taken any test for a career firefighters position before. (As you know I readily admit that I took six test - so I think that is a reasonable question). That only means I may disagree with you, but I am willing to listen to your side. You also still have not seemed to explain if the City of Port Chester is safer with or without those eight career firefighters. That is really the answer I am looking for. In your opinion, "did those Three Port Chester Fire Chiefs make the right decision by getting rid of those eight career firefighters and if so, why" ? So lets just try it one more time okay. What do you think there "FD7807" ?

Real firefighters involved in doing their job don't have time to take pictures of themselves. As the saying goes; "Don't brag about yourself, let others do it for you".

"FD7807", I think you missed some of the questions. 1) How would eliminating career firefighters NOT have an affect on public safety ? 2) How does a group of union firefighters make this sound so risky and I assume you feel it shouldn't be ? Your latest response however is exactly the kind of response I would expect. A little self gratification by telling us you work 60 hours a week. Do you get paid for that time ? I would just guess that 20 of those hours are rated at time and a half. I would hope you have enough to buy yourself that fresh new blue light. Yet you still make 100 FD calls and 100 training hours. I'm guessing again, that is in one year. Did you ever wonder how many FD calls the average career firefighter makes in one year ? Or did you ever think of the number of training hours those career firefighters spend in one year ? The same kind of career firefighters that you believe has no impact on the publics safety if taken away. "FD7807", I'm not talking about watching Chicago Fire on demand or Belly Bumps. What I am talking about is the reality of todays fire service. The one that so many of us tend to depend on. One more question from one of those "Keyboard Firefighters" if I may. Is it safe for us to assume that you NEVER took any exam for a career firefighter ? You never had any interest in doing that job at all. You are very happy as it is, working your 60 hours a week and doing your 100 FD calls and 100 training hours. Only you would know the real answer to that. But I bet you didn't know this. That as a little hobby of mine I spent time helping young volunteer firefighters that wanted to become career firefighters. And I wasn't the only career firefighter doing it. There was an entire group of us all from career departments in Connecticut. We helped them with the written, the oral etc. and because those young guys really pushed themselves and worked hard, most got on a career fire dept somewhere. Today they thank us. But "THEY" were the ones that really did it. And I must say that I think those career depts. got the best of the best. Sorry for getting off track here, but I just thought it was a pretty good story to tell. And by the way, they were ALL UNION FIREFIGHTERS and they did it all for FREE. No charge at all.

"fdalumnus", as a Retired Firefighter from a small Ct city combo dept I can totally relate to your story. Every word that is. What is sad about the whole deal is that sometimes good, dedicated volunteer firefighters get a bad rap. I certainly don't mean to offend ALL volunteer firefighters. I have many friends who volunteer their services. There is also a mutual respect for each other. But when discussing the topic of those firefighter unions, it has always been a give and take. Of course the city represented what the taxpayers can afford and the firefighter union making its case for the firefighters. Just as the unions representing the police officers, public works, teachers etc. Another myth is that those firefighter unions are all about taking. The firefighters union often takes a stand on what is best in the publics interest as well. Several years ago it was the members of my firefighters union for several members to attend EMT school. Three out of four classes were attended by these union firefighters on their own time. It was later decided that each member on a piece of apparatus be an EMT in order to help the public in their time of need. Yes, it was the firefighters union that established that policy to benefit it's citizens. The next step was to get the much needed medical equipment to do that job, and that's just what that union did. The union pushed and was finally successful to get all newly hired firefighters to attend the extensive 16 week Probie School, where they were trained by the best and most experienced instructors in the state. It was the union that pushed for the funding of Public Education in order to teach the public just what to do in case of fire. It was NOT city hall that pushed for these things but those Union Firefighters who did. I would like "FD7807" to explain how eliminating career firefighters would NOT have an effect on the publics safety. How a group of union firefighters are making it sound so risky. How it is just union rhetoric telling the people their lives are at risk. "FD7807", you certainly have your right to speak and I'm willing to listen. My guess a few others are willing to listen as here as well. Just as a point of interest as well. It took me six test before I got the job. And I got it in a place I had never even been to before, let alone know the right people. If it was meant to be that I remain as a volunteer firefighter, I would have accepted that. But I would NEVER in any way try to put down somebody who got that career firefighter job instead of myself. I'd probably actually respect them for the job they do.