nfd2004

FireMedic, I think most people would say leave room for the truck to park in front of the building. And if they know that the truck is coming in the opposite way, stop just before the building so the Truck has a shot at using the ladder. As bad as this video appears to be, as I see it the guy driving that first due engine did about the best job as anybody. Of course that is all Monday morning quarterbacking. It may not actually be the case here. But beyond any tactics, I think what is very clearly pointed out is how important a quick response is and using an aggressive attack to save the building, or more importantly people. Ten minutes to wait for water while a building burns is several minutes of waiting too long if there is any hope of saving anything. Dollars and sense wise, saving 3 billion dollars a year might be saved in some salaries but I don't think in overall losses. That cost may actually be very high if figured in overall

Interesting video to say the least. This is the "cost factor" that most people don't really see. My educated guess is that the least amount of fires occur in areas generally served by volunteer firefighters, but those fires that DO OCCUR, would account for the highest losses. When I look at that video, I can certainly relate to that being my house. Of course like most people who own a home, we have our insurance premiums paid to cover most of the damages to the building and hopefully it's contents. But what can't be replaced is all the personnel belongings that we gather over the years. Photos of our family members that can't be replaced, maybe our long time pet friends, and we of course are not counting the life hazard that is involved here waiting for a fire dept to show up. No folks, the price goes way beyond that cost of a few firefighters being able to quickly get that first and most important line in place. Somebody in the comments section of this video mentions that this is a place with a population of 47,000 people. Why isn't there at least some career firefighters on duty ? If that's true, "I have the same question". I felt this video explained so much what words could not. So I decided to passed it on to our city officials here in Norwich, Ct. (see thread - Fractured Fire Service of Norwich, Ct). Along with the newspaper article that came out on July 3, 2016. Because what I find significant in the comparison of BOTH places is that one Norwich Volunteer Fire Chief even stated that: "they meet the NFPA Standard of answering 90 percent of their calls in 10 minutes". Well, in the case of this video, that department met that standard as well. It's just that as we wait and wait, this building continues to burn as the clock ticks. We basically get the full effect of what words just can not express. And as I watch it, I can certainly picture that being my house as I watch that fire chief, the only guy on the scene, do his 360 walk around and then try to look like he's actually doing something.

Here's an interesting point to consider. For an automatic fire alarm activation within a fairly large condo complex, that Norwich Fire Dept has "NO PROBLEM" calling for TWO of the local volunteer departments as part of an Automatic Aid response. Yet, how is it that for some reason, even for a Working Fire, some local volunteer departments totally refuse to have them (Norwich Career On Duty Firefighters) respond. Even though they are manned and much closer than the outside volunteer departments who were requested to respond. The reason I mention the fire alarm at this condo complex is that it just happened. I've tried to think about this but I'm just totally lost as how one place has no problem calling for the other. Yet on the other side, it is just the opposite. No matter what is burning or what kind of help somebody needs, even being closer, "they just don't call them". If there is anybody out there that can make any sense of this, "please let us know".

I'm sure you won't get much argument on that. In fact, as I remember, the Stamford FD once had a Fourth Truck Co in service, along with a Squad Co. as well. Manning of course is the main problem. I know that Rescue 1 Stamford Firefighters are all very well qualified in their duties. Those duties include confined space rescue, scuba divers, high angle rope rescue, and Haz Mat tech (I think). Could that be provided within a Second Rescue Co., that would be an ideal plan. Geography and traffic factors need consideration in any city or town. Do you know of any recent problems in which there was a much longer delay as a result of this ? I'm sure traveling east or west on I-95 or the Merritt Parkway for a car accident, or a car fire, during rush hour would present a traffic problem no matter where they come in from. I've seen that myself with Rescue 1 going up to I-95.

Thank you very much for that report. 1) Great news that so far, FOUR of those laid off Port Chester Firefighters have been hired, with Four more to go. I wish them all the Best of Luck in their NEW Careers. 2) We now see there are Four LESS positions that could have been offered to Volunteer Firefighters from Port Chester. A price a few of those younger volunteer firefighters might not have ever thought about. And there still could be some place willing to hire four other fully trained, laid off career firefighters as well. Guess these places didn't look at them as "Fired Firefighters" as somebody once said here. 3) An overall INCREASE in response time now. One thing that was never brought up when these Eight Port Chester Firefighters were laid off was what is called "Lead Time". That is the time it takes to get the first piece of fire apparatus on the scene. That "lead time" now has increased. When the day comes that some innocent victim is chocking on some smoke and can't get out, "that's when it will really count". Perhaps an investigation should be done and matters corrected BEFORE such an event happens. 4) To the Captains of Rescue 40 and Engine 63, "I salute you". Your true courage to stand up for what is right is respected by everyone of us who can see beyond this smoke screen. And to the members who are walking away, you lead the way in showing everyone of us, just what this Brotherhood thing is all about. My guess is that there are many other places who would GLADLY appreciate your services to their community. I encourage you to do so. As a Retired Brother Firefighter, serving 5 years a Volunteer and 30 years as a Career member, "I THANK YOU" for what you've done. As well as THOUSANDS of others I'm sure.

Understood "x152", thank you. You know the place much better than I do. I am certainly glad to hear that Engine 8 and Engine 9 has now received a Fourth Firefighter. That extra person makes a HUGE Difference when seconds count. Hence, that is why you guys wanted to increase your manning level from 54 to 56 (?) per shift. It all makes sense to me and once again, Congratulations on a successful contract after such a long wait (and battle).

I will say this in response to needing that apparatus. The City of Bridgeport, the largest city in Connecticut operates with 9 Engines, 4 Ladders, 1 Rescue. They certainly have their fair share of hazards just like Stamford. But is it the amount of apparatus that is needed OR the manpower that is really needed. The Stamford Career Department has 8 Engines, 3 Ladders, 1 Rescue (I think). A fair comparison to Bridgeport covering a population of about 20,000 people MORE. So using Bridgeport's number of apparatus serving that larger city might be a good example. So I ask; "how many more pieces of fire apparatus does Stamford really need" ? I'm not familiar with the manning levels of Stamford on each piece, except I believe some might be four firefighters and some might be three. That's where the need comes in. Not the number of trucks BUT the number of people. Now with a total of 12 pieces of fire apparatus covering Stamford, would it someday be possible for one or two volunteer firefighters to ride each piece of apparatus as additional manpower. It worked in Fairfield a while back and I think it is still working there today. It also works well in many other places throughout the country. NOT replacing manning BUT adding to it. The advantage to the many younger volunteer members is they would learn the job very well working in this city environment. Of course the disadvantage may actually come into play with the more senior members who like to be the Commanders. That's because Stamford already has the Commanders needed who competed very hard to get to where they are. "If a Retired U.S. Army Colonel, with two masters degrees, can ride a career engine in a county in Virginia and do what he is told, I'm sure the Volunteer Firefighters of Stamford can do the same". He does it because he enjoys it and just wants to help. I would think that is the reason everybody else does it too.

As I followed this story from the very beginning, I could NOT believe that a city the size of Stamford,... Connecticut's Fourth Largest city with a population of about 127,000 people, would be in such turmoil. Then with the most recent turn of events, a letter being submitted by the five volunteer fire departments in an effort to destroy that career department, justice finally prevails. I am quite sure that the Stamford Firefighters contract does NOT state, "do away with any volunteer firefighters". I certainly had my doubts lately but now as I had felt in the past, "Stamford can become a Role Model to other departments". Both sides can learn from the experiences over the past several years. Stamford can now PROVE to both sides that a combination Career/Volunteer FD can work. And it can work in Connecticuts Fourth Largest City. Stamford has become a "Cosmopolitan City" with it's downtown high rises and exclusive Manhattan style restaurants. I have had the opportunity to witness the Stamford Fire Dept in action and "they are second to none". If I was a young volunteer firefighter in Stamford, "I would love to have my name associated with that department". "I would pick those guys brains all the time and try to learn from their experience". Basically I would completely reject what some may try to brain wash my mind with when it comes to "us versus them". As a volunteer firefighter for five years, working directly with a group of career firefighters, I can tell you I learned a lot from those guys. We became good friends and most helped us to follow in their footsteps. And I'm not speaking on behalf of myself only. As a career firefighter for 30 years, I had to face many of the same battles these Stamford Career firefighters have had to face. My job was constantly being threatened by a group of individuals who liked to be referred to as "A Brother Firefighter" but who would gladly cut my throat given the chance. I have often disagreed on here with members like "AFS1970" or "FFPCogs". But I certainly must commend them here for their most recent post on this thread. This is a positive step in the right direction. YES, it can be done and volunteer and career firefighters CAN work together. There are many places in existence today where that is successfully happening. That includes some of the most PROGRESSIVE Departments in the Country. To "x152", I am very happy to hear that your long awaited contract is finally settled. I'm sure it wasn't easy for you or your Brother/Sister Firefighters. I appreciate reading your comments here and thank you for keeping us all advised as to what's going on. So please tell all my Stamford Firefighter friends, Willy D says "congratulations to all". Many through out the fire service here would consider me a "Dinosaur". But that's okay with me. In fact there are times when being a dinosaur is something to be very proud of. But maybe for some, it's time to get rid of the kind of dinosaurs who would write letters going against those who fight fires for a living. Because whatever the City of Stamford does, "we need to do the same thing here". Put the real reason back into what firefighters are SUPPOSED to do - Save Lives and Property, NOT fight against each other.

In an effort to keep the membership advised as to what is going on here, I would like to pass on a majority of my latest email which was sent to a couple of city council members and asked to forward to the other city officials as well as the five volunteer fire chiefs involved. I sent this on August 3, 2016 and this is what I said. Quote: It was one month ago today, on Sunday July 3, 2016, that the New London Day Newspaper gave Front Page coverage to an article titled; "Norwich Fire Service More Fractured than Ever". That story woke many citizens up to what some did NOT believe was going on here. Just how citizens, as well as firefighters lives, were being put at much higher risk. All because of a resistance to call a group of career firefighters by some local volunteer fire chiefs. It has now been one month since that article first appeared. And here are a few facts on just how things have progressed. 1) Exactly two days after that article appeared there was a working fire in the Occum section of the city. Once again, just as had been well documented over the last year and a half - NO Norwich Fire Department units were allowed to respond. Occum - Response to this Working Fire was: Occum FD Baltic FD Yantic FD Mohegan Tribe FD (FAST Co) 2) Another incident - Comfort Suits Hotel on Otrabando Ave - Occupants stuck in an elevator. Yantic FD East Great Plains FD Ladder 55 3) Another incident - Fire Alarm at the Bowling Alley - 188 West Town St. Yantic FD East Great Plains FD Ladder 55 Taftville FD Tower 25 My first meeting with then City Manager, Mr John Bilda, over a year and a half ago was completely Unsuccessful in an attempt to get those Norwich Firefighters to respond. A few months later and after THREE MORE serious incidents, I go to the New London Day Newspaper which gives FRONT Page coverage to this story. Our leaders of the fire service are exposed with having NO CONCERN at all for the safety of it's citizens, or firefighters as well. Then only two days after that article on July 5th, another working fire with no changes made. Now within one month already three additional incidents, although two, only minor in nature at the time. This type of action leads me to believe that this city is NOT ready for any changes within it's fire department. Are these Fire Commanders aware that there is a fully staffed fire department that is trained and ready to respond ? Do they understand that they are requesting assistance from Unstaffed fire departments with basically no idea who will show up ? Do they understand that there is such a thing as "Lead Time" when it pertains to fire apparatus arrival time ? Most importantly, Do any of us want these kinds of decisions being made by these Fire Commmanders if it involves our own family and friends ? Are you, as city leaders, willing to put your own family members at risk so that a group of Fire Commanders can go against every rule in the book ? Would these same Fire Commanders be willing to put their own family members and friends at risk without regard for their safety ? Apparently for no other reason except to maintain their own status. Are these the kinds of Fire Service Commanders we allow to run our fire departments ? Is this the kind of leadership we all deserve ? So should we all just face the sad reality that somebody has got to get hurt or die before the next step can be taken. I believe that would be the FIRST Step of the FINAL Step. My guess is that No court of law will rule in favor of a Fire Commander who refused to call for a fully staffed group of firefighters. Fire Commanders whose decision in the initial stages, just might have caused a very different outcome. Then I ask those fire commanders, "Is it really worth it". Do these people really understand what can happen ? Are they willing to testify in a court of law just why they did NOT call those Norwich Firefighters and instead called farther away fire departments. Where those members must first drive to the fire station before they are even able to respond. Is a judge going to consider the fact that "a volunteer fire department is within the national standard response of 10 minutes for 90 percent of the calls" (as quoted from one Volunteer Chief in that New London Day story). Will any judge accept that as being okay with the loss of a life, when there is a group of firefighters much closer within the same town. Let's Role Play here: 1) First - You are the judge. So what do you think ? Did that Fire Commander do the RIGHT thing by NOT calling for those Norwich Firefighters ? Do you rule in his favor stating that this death is acceptable. 2) Second - You are now the victim who lost their home and family member - Now as the victims family member "What do you think" ? Do you hold this Fire Commander responsible for the death of your own family member, along with the loss of so many personnel belongings ? Do you think that the fully staffed and trained group of on duty firefighters might have made a difference instead of calling for a group on volunteer firefighters farther away. That seems to be where we are now. No progress and still very willing to put peoples lives in danger, rather than ever consider calling for those Norwich Firefighters. Also calling for those Norwich Firefighters must be done IMMEDIATELY to have any positive effect. That is the time they are needed. Not after the fact. I was quoted in that newspaper story as saying: "Every day that goes by is one day closer to this happening". That is also a fact. I have tried to do the best I can to improve the publics safety concerning our fire department. I have saved every email I sent out. I was wrongly accused of being "coached". A newspaper reporter told the story as she got it. Yet we continue to allow a small group of individuals who apparently don't have a clue just how other members of the fire service view their actions. This handful of individuals have had plenty of time to make some very positive changes. Apparently no one has any control over their actions. The time has come when I see the only answer as being handled through our legal system. I believe it will come down to a large property loss or injury, perhaps even someone loosing their life when that individual Fire Commander will be held responsible for their own actions. City Council members Bill N., and Joanne P., I want to say "thank you for all that you have tried to do and your understanding". As well as the other members of the city council who understand the serious issue here. But this is a city being held hostage by a handful of defying individuals, who have absolutely no concern for anybody except themselves. They are willing to put each and every one of us at risk to satisfy their own needs. However, I will promise you this. the next time one of them makes the wrong move, I will do my very best to make sure they are dealt with in the proper manner through a court of law. End of Quote. Let me also add that I made mention of the fact of proven conflicting details on the 911 Dispatch reports when shown to me by the reporter. As well as one unknown person calling herself "Jane Q. Citizen" sending an email to that reporter stating that after she left and filing for a FOI requesting those dispatch records, one individual was reported to be in a "Panic Mode". She named that person who has ties to at least one or two of those original four serious incidents reported.

Thanks Pete, of course there are things that I was not aware of. I was not aware that Engine 9 now runs out of the TOR firehouse. To me, that in itself is some very positive progress. What I don't understand is why is it that it can work in one place and not the other ? As was mentioned, if those guys want a Quiet room set aside, "why not". They are required to be there for the entire night shift. At 2 am they have no choice on whether they want to respond or not. They may be required to work at peak physical strength during those hours with perhaps no rest in between. So just respect their request and I'm quite sure, the respect will be returned. I think the fact that it only seems to be an issue with one or two firehouses, that is much better than a few years ago. Of course the volunteer firefighters have their rights too. What about a volunteer firefighter riding with that career engine. NOT to replace their manning but to add to it. Put that in writing and I would not be surprised to see that agreed upon. It works out in many of the most progressive depts. in the country like that. A buddy of mine who I speak of quite often is a Retired U.S. Army Colonel and he spends at least one night a week riding as a volunteer firefighter on a career engine in Virginia. As a volunteer firefighter myself, I once rode as an added member to an engine co in Fairfield (CT). I didn't replace their manning but there were times when I know those career guys were glad we were there. Now as a retired career firefighter there were times when I wish we had a volunteer firefighter riding with us. Just one extra man can cut the time in HALF it takes to stretch a handline up three flights of stairs. The FDNY proved that several years ago. Just looking at it as one extra man on each engine and truck would occupy eleven volunteers on a given shift. (8 Engines and 3 Trucks - right). But what would be difficult for some to understand is that the career officer is the boss and fully responsible for what goes on. Perhaps a Volunteer Chief assigned to each station could be sort of an administrative chief to represent those volunteer firefighters and assign a schedule. And let those who want to be one of those chiefs take both a written and oral exam administrated by city officials. Include extra points for seniority just like most career depts. Regarding the subject of passing the same test for a promotion, as you are probably aware, just passing a written test may only be part of it. In addition, some guys year after year study and still don't get promoted. That promotion is only given to the TOP scorer after everything is considered, not just passing a written test. The competition is very often difficult to beat. From the very beginning I always thought that Stamford, the fourth (?) largest city in Connecticut, could be a Role Model for the Fire Service. I still think it can.

With his former Houston Fire Company, Engine 28, battling a Three Alarm building fire on a very hot day, Retired 65 year old Houston Firefighter, Brother "Smitty", decided that he needed to do something to help his brother/sister firefighters. So here is that story. http://www.click2houston.com/news/local-legend-ignores-retirement-returns-to-help-firefighters-battle-flames

Did this study ALSO look at the direct cost of "property damage and insurance claims" ? If not, somebody pays for that as the result of not having on duty career firefighters. Actually, my guess is that WE ALL pay for that through our homeowners insurance premiums. Did this study look into the ISO (Insurance Services Office) ratings and insurance cost ? There could be a significant difference in what is paid by home owners, particularly businesses. A business served by a Class 1 fire department will be able to save a significant amount on their fire insurance payments versus a place with perhaps a Class 4 or higher number rating (Class 1 the BEST, Class 10 the WORST). Of course one of the main concerns is water supply. A city with good water mains generally does very well. Just as a comparison, in Connecticut there are THREE Class 1 Fire Departments, Hartford, New Haven and Milford, Ct. All have a good water supply and that gets high marks. However, all are also served by fully career fire departments. In the earlier thread of "A Fractured Fire Service Norwich, Ct", that city generally has a good water supply, except for one small area. That city is given a Class 4 rating. Part of the city served by a career fire department and the other part of the city served by five separate volunteer departments. The difference between Milford, Ct and Norwich, Ct is about 10,000 people more in Milford. However, for the same business to operate, the price for insurance coverage would be quite a difference. Maybe an interesting point to consider when paying your tax bill, how much actually goes to the fire dept, and paying your homeowners insurance bill.

We welcome you back "Update on Stamford Merger'. With almost 308,000 views, 69 pages and 2,065 post, plus this one, this has been NO DOUBT, the most popular, and most interesting thread on this site. It's been awhile since I've made a visit to Stamford. But as I read that letter to the BOR one or two things mentioned particularly caught my attention. One was about the fire apparatus riding right by the volunteer station. I knew that not too long ago, there were two individual mobile homes being used by the Stamford FD. One was used by the members of Engine 8 and I think one was used by the members of Engine 9. I understand the reason those mobile trailers/firehouses had to be put there is because TWO of those volunteer fire companies would NOT allow the career firefighters to operate out of their stations. Turn of the River Vol Firehouse was one and has about three or four bays in a two story building. I would think there would be enough room for that piece of apparatus (E 8) and the three on duty firefighters. I believe these are within a 1/2 to 1 mile of each other. The other mobile trailer/firehouse (Engine 9 - ?) is even closer to the other Vol fire house. Wouldn't it be better to have Eng 8 operating out of TOR Firehouse and Eng 9 operating out of that other volunteer firehouse. That way EVERYBODY would know when the call came in and respond together. That's just common sense. Just close down those mobile trailer/firehouses and move those two companies into those Volly houses. The only real problem with that is if there is a problem with the career guys, they can be disciplined. But what can be done if there's a problem with the Volunteer guys. They move into the same firehouse and close down those mobile trailers. Training is another question I had. Is EVERYBODY really trained to the same level. Yes Firefighter basic level but didn't most of those Stamford guys have to attend some kind of recruit school ?

Becoming a career firefighter requires an individual to be in peak physical condition. A firefighter can go from zero to 100 miles an hour in a matter of minutes. A normal heart rate increases even BEFORE any physical work is required. The physical work is heavy and very demanding in that it must be done to perhaps save a life. Most career firefighters will tell you how rewarding that job can be. But their families can't tell you about the worries they have while their loved ones go out there to do that job. Unless you've done it, it is really hard to relate how difficult this job can be. In order to become a career firefighter there are many test to pass. Generally, just passing is NOT enough. Only the highest scorers are chosen. Once an individual is lucky enough to get that job, citizens from young and old, black or white, along with each of his co workers (called Brothers and Sisters) must depend on his training and skills. They must also depend on his physical ability to perform these physically demanding skills. Here is New London, Ct Firefighter "Johnny T" as he shows us one aspect of the job and what it takes to be a firefighter.

As we remember from August 2, 1978. Exactly 38 years ago. www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTzBg1YIZmI

I can certainly understand how you say that L.I. is fortunate with the members of the fire dept they have. Many of those workers are available due to their work schedules. In addition to that by virtue of the nature of their work, many must maintain some type of minimum fitness level, plus they are geared and trained to deal with various types of emergencies. Long Island is a very special place that has the fortunate option of having many of these NYC workers. They are a part of public servants assigned to work in the most populated city in the United States. Many serving it's citizens under difficult emergency circumstances. On the contrary, my own brother, a Retired Bridgeport Battalion Chief who rose through the ranks. He fought fires in the busiest companies, during that city's busiest decade for fire duty. When he retired he joined a local volunteer fire department here in Eastern, Ct. He lived right near the firehouse, was available 24/7 and willing to work and give his time. Plus he brought with him years of fire fighting experience from one of the busiest depts in CT. To me, this department had just "Won the Lottery". But that was not the case at all. Instead many, including the chief, felt threatened and did their best to get rid of him. He was told NOT to touch their Seagrave rearmount ladder. The same kind he had driven for many years as well as was assigned a Lt in charge of busiest ladder co in the city. One evening a member of the dept was giving a class on that ladder, except when it came time to get the ladder out of the bed, guess who had to show him how to do it. Another time when the ladder had been extended operating at a fire, the operator could not get it back down. It was first thought that there was a mechanical failure of the ladder that's why it wouldn't come down. Guess who was able to get that ladder down in a few short seconds. He was a hero that day, but shortly after he couldn't take it anymore and quit. I imagine most of Long Island does NOT have those kinds of problems.

But unfortunately here is something else those taxpayers don't understand because NOBODY tells them. "It's NOT the number of fancy fire trucks that put out the fires, it's people that put out those fires". Yes, it's the number of skilled and highly trained firefighters that show up who really are the one's that save their lives and put out their fires quickly before they loose everything. Let's go back to the FDNY, who once did a study on number of fire trucks vs number of firefighters that showed up. (maybe Bad Box remembers this). They found that in MOST cases Two Engines and Two Ladder trucks could handle most building fires in the initial stages. But it was really the amount of manning that arrived quickly on the scene that had the biggest impact on saving lives and property. Hence came the signal 10-75 as it is known, then providing an extra Engine Co purely for manpower to fight the fire. Later of course came the response of a FAST Co etc. Also in L.A. City, the FD there found that a Task Force consisting of Two Engines and One Ladder, arriving with it's full staff together would be much more effective than several companies all arriving at different times. Now we look at a place like Long Island and we know fully manned companies arriving together is NOT the case. In addition what I'm sure is a key factor in the fires fought on Long Island that most other areas do not have, is that so many departments are lucky enough to have available many OFF DUTY FDNY members. They are available and probably some of the Best Trained and Most Experienced group of firefighters in the World. Most places don't have that option. Also what those Long Island taxpayers don't know is that the fires would still be put out WITHOUT spending money on all those fancy fire trucks. Cut two thirds out and the results would be the same.

Actually what needs to be done through proper leadership is NOT do away with these Rescue Companies. But what must be done is realize that every fire company does NOT need a heavy rescue. Thst should be very easy to understand by the membership as well as easy to explain by using the example that if a city like New York with 8 million people can do it with only Five Heavy Rescue Cos, a place much smaller can certainly merge their equipment together with other nearby smaller departments. As an example the City of Bridgeport, the largest city in Connecticut with a population about 140,000 people has One Heavy Rescue. While I compare my home town, Norwich, Ct with a population of 40.000 people with Three Heavy Rescues. In addition comparing the same two cities Norwich has at least twice the number of Pumpers, one less ladder truck but five mini Rescues used for medicals , that they say saves where and tear on fire apparatus. Plus three brush fire units. Norwich is slightly larger in square miles covered. I feel bad for the guys who must learn to accept the fact that changes need to be made. But I also feel bad for all of us taxpayers that watch our money being wasted on totally unnecessary fire apparatus.

Sir, no matter how I try, whether I type in Village of Colonie, NY or Town of Colonie, NY, I still come up with the same number of people. That is 7,913 according to a 2013 censes. And when we start to talk about Rescues, or the FDNY, I got a feeling "Bad Box" knows exactly what he's talking about. Both from a career, as well as a volunteer firefighters point of view.

Population of Colonie, NY was just under 8,000 people in 2013. Not exactly a densely packed urban area, spread out among 50 plus square miles.

"babhits16", I couldn't tell you the call volume of the Rye Brook FD. But I sure think you told a great story in your post above. I must also agree with you that there are many volunteer firefighters that do a GREAT JOB. I give them credit for what they do. I have many friends, basically throughout the entire country, who are volunteer firefighters. Some have been career firefighters who I can only dream or wish that I had one tenth their firefighting and rescue experience. I have one volunteer firefighter/chief friend who owns a major insurance company, another who is an oral surgeon, another a retired U.S. Army Colonel, an accountant, a retired Con Ed supervisor responsible for the entire Westchester County area, a plumber and it goes on and on. These guys are GREAT people and their goal is to just go out there and help their communities and the people within them. They also show me a great amount of respect towards career firefighters and I myself, have the same degree of respect for them in what they do. Then I read here of a group of volunteer firefighters, led by a guy named Chief Quinn in Port Chester. This reminds me of the War Zone where I was a career firefighter. Years and years of battling over a thing called "the fire service". Where we are all supposed to do basically the same job. But where the term "Brotherhood" has been replaced with the term "Battlehood". Where are group of volunteer firefighters, led by some very jealous fire chiefs, had recently proposed the elimination of a 3 man career engine company, a fourth firefighter position in one of the busier engine companies, and eliminate four battalion chiefs positions for a total of 16 firefighter positions to be eliminated. These proposals were brought on by some of the same individuals who I know, took that same career firefighter test (in some cases several times), but were never successful in getting that job. So I guess the thinking must be, "if they can't have it, then nobody else should have it". I certainly wish all the best to those PCFD8 group of guys. Nothing would make my day better than for me to read on here that they win their lawsuit and all are hired elsewhere to work as career firefighters in a community where they will be much more appreciated for the job they do. As for the younger members of those fire departments in Port Chester who have a goal to become a career firefighter, "don't forget to give FULL credit to your fire commanders for just cutting your chances even more of reaching your lifetime goal". Maybe they couldn't get the job, but they shouldn't have cut your chances for what you wanted.

I would hope that anyone who is following this story is well aware that these EIGHT Port Chester firefighters were NOT Fired. I think it's always been pretty clear that they did NOTHING WRONG. They are actually the innocent victims of what some may consider "a lynch mob". They were just a group of guys trying to do the job they had done in the past. Just helping the people of Port Chester. I think that is clearly displayed no one was fired by the fact that Rye Brook has already hired one former Port Chester Firefighter. That career department was disbanded. Those firefighters had no control over that. It was never mentioned that they were "FIRED".

Wow !!! But it's all done for FREE right. On a smaller scale kind of reminds me of a place I am very familiar with in Eastern, Ct.

Even those cold winter nights ? Those back tailboards were even covered in ice. Ice all over the place. The tailboard your standing on, the cross bar your holding on to, in addition to a human body wearing firefighting gear covered in ice. After spending a few hours following water, at least to me nothing sounded better than riding back inside of a heated cab of a fire truck. And sometimes that wasn't even the case with an open cab. Well, honestly, I know of one guy that won't be buying one or two of those T-shirts. I'd much rather see my money put to good use in such things as the firefighter cancer fund. You could also send your money to that as well, for a somewhat different purpose. In case anybody wants to do that instead it's www.ffcancer.org .

Of course that is GREAT NEWS and THANK YOU for keeping us updated. Now, Seven more to go. So what does this indirectly mean for other guys. In particular those that want to become career firefighters as well. By laying off these eight Port Chester career firefighters, the competition just got harder for those younger volunteer firefighters within the border of Port Chester. Actually, by cutting these career firefighters, their own volunteer membership actually may have, indirectly, have hurt their own membership. Just maybe one less opening for a Port Chester volunteer firefighter to be hired in nearby Rye and begin a very satisfying and rewarding career. And soon there could be seven other positions somewhere nearby in which more career opportunities could be lost for those volunteer members. Besides the fact of those Port Chester citizens lives and personnel valuables are being put at much more risk. Besides the fact that a fire leadership is willing to put their own members lives at more risk. We now see another smaller price that a few younger volunteer members may end up paying. LESS opportunity for them to become a career firefighter. All because of a leadership within their own ranks that are more than willing to let them down. By the way, "how's Chief Quinn doing" ?