M' Ave

This is all very true. Much of our spec is indeed geared towards ease of fleet maintenance. Seagrave will always have the TL's because of the Aerialscope product. Also true is the slim profit margin. They hope to make money on the volume of sales, not each unit. Another way to look at it is advertising. There are a lot of rolling billboards on the streets of NYC. It's kinda like Hebrew National and Yankee Stadium. They give the Yankees hotdogs for free, but they get to put "Hebrew National" everywhere.

Fantastic photos! Even aside from the incident, just terrific photos of Turn-of-the-Century New York. Love the "Buick Motor Company" sign. Nice find!

The Ferrara at the academy was a donation from Louisiana following 9/11. It didn't really mesh with the rest of the fleet so it was used for Chauffeur Training School and then donated back to New Orleans after Katrina. There are several front line engines that still operate a Ferrara. Off the top of my head, I know that Eng. 54 and Eng. 26 are in that group. They are special 3 stage high pressure units for use in Manhattan to supply water to upper floors. They were built on the first incarnation of the Ferrara Ultra Chassis. I don't know how well they've held up. Notice how similar they look to a Seagrave? It's all in the spec.....

Well said, and a mention of the Ol' Putt to boot! As stated, the GWB expansion did happen, but it was more roadways and not rail to occupied the available real estate. Things were different at that time, right through the time of Robert Moses. The automobile was rising and arrived at the top of the heap. We have to be realistic....gas is going to be $5 a gallon this summer and it'll never fall too far again. (Don't believe these nit-wit presidential wanna-bees who claim they'll bring back $2 gas). We need to find alternatives to driving our own vehicles in many urban and suburban areas. Money needs to be poured into mass transit and the scope of our projects needs to surpass the needs of today to accommodate for tomorrow.

Well, no, not entirely. However, much of the durability is in the spec. What engine/trans. did you select? Sheet metal to be used? Suspension components? Some specs go so far as to specify the gauge of steel used in frame rails. If we're getting into build quality, I'd have to say that I think they're more or less all the same, with the occasional exception, to be sure. I was a volunteer in a dept. with both Pierce and E-One rigs. Now, they didn't run ALL that much but I'd put construction quality on the same level as Seagrave, albeit with some lighter weight componentry. Would that E-One have survived in NYC? Not even for a month. However, it wasn't designed for that. It's comparing Apples to Oranges. As far as I'm concerned, the builder plate on the grill doesn't really mean all that much. You assemble the spec, someone builds it. If there's any reason to have a builder preference, I think it's related to style and manufacturer specific gimmickry.

I worked with all of them. Like anything else, it's all in the spec, not the brand.

I too oppose any plan that doesn't include mass transit. I'm going to take that one step further and say that any plan that doesn't join Rockland to the Hudson Line of Metro-North is short sighted. As I understand it, the plan that is expected to proceed will no include a rail-line, but will allow it to be easily added at a later time when more money is available. While I think that probably means A VERY LONG TIME, at least it is forward thinking. In this region of ever increasing congestion, roads can only get so much bigger or better. I truly believe that mass transit is the answer. Look, I live in Manhattan and I love the subway. I love my car too, but good mass transit beats a crowded congested road any time.

Everything about the cab Seagrave has built for the FDNY is unique to what is more typically built by seagrave. They are narrow, short and everything from the fenders over the wheels being very slim , to the door handles being recessed is geared towards building a rig that can fit in firehouses build in the late 1800's and operate on tight NYC streets. I dont' know if you've ever been up close to a NYC rig, but in general, you'll find them to be pretty small. I know nothing about the "Severe Service Chassis", but the city wants everything to be very specific and relatively interchangeable from rig to rig. There's to many out there to require different parts and maintenance knowledge. They are supposed to be replaced every 10 years, sometimes 11 or 12 go by, but 10 is whats in the contract.

Ferrara and Seagrave are the only real bidders here. Unless KME is willing to build a new cab/chassis from the ground up, I don't see them able to meet the spec the city has laid out now and previously. Seagrave, of course, has a long track record. Ferrara has made recent inroads and built a new cab/chassis to meet the city's specs. Ferrara has also proven able to meet warranty requirements as they won the recent bid for 40+ 100' rearmounts. It's going to come down to who's more motivated to win the contract as both are capable. My company has a Seagrave coming up for replacement. It can't come soon enough! It's got almost 70,000 miles on it, the pumps leak like a sieve, it's a bucket of rust and the ride is spine compressing. It doesn't much matter to me who makes the rig as long as they make a few improvements to interior space, durability and ride. Ride might not sound so important, but when you ride in it to building inspections and other duties, aside from runs, it can be a long day of bouncing around. It gets old. The new Seagrave engines are quiet, roomy and smooth. They have a great deal of interior space for tool storage, but the seating arrangement isn't prefect. The officers seat is really tight, however. The hose bed seems to be a touch higher, not a good thing. The other radical changes only really apply to the chauffeur. Double the pump capacity, a multitude of different inlets and no more draw handles, they're rotary type knobs. There have been a couple of issues with the newer Seagrave engines. I'm told that several have had long stints O.O.S. for transmission failure. Hopefully whomever builds the next round will get it right because getting a new rig and spending the next few months switching back and for to a spare is no good.

I will be in Albany on March 13th....hopefully one in a sea of blue uniforms.

Probobly. I can't imagine for one second that ANY FDNY firemen are members of this farce called Aviation. Yes, a lot of guys are volunteers elsewhere, however, they're not (or shouldn't be) active where there's a paid staff and that makes a world of difference.

Orchard Beach? I didn't realize that as in Clason Point.

...how quickly a thread with the chance for some worthwhile criticism is turning into the same old bu!!sh!t bash fest. Let's leave the d%&k measuring out of this and discuss (honestly) the fact that this article highlights a huge f-up and we as a group need to exam it. Why? Because a lot of the things that happened can easily (an probably have) happen in Westchester. The role of politics in mutual aid is a real issue in this county. As are variations in a departments training standards, SOP's, experience level, manpower and equipment compliment. Here is a simple fact; there are areas all over Westchester where two neighbors, sitting on a different sides of a political boundary, are only separated by a couple dozen feet yet their fire protection quality is dramatically different. This topic and the issues it raises brings a word to mind...lean closer.....consolidation

The American LaFrance unit is a reserve (meaning fully equipted vs. a spare). However, there is no such thing as Rescue 6. That doesn't exist.

Great news for those guys. The more court precedent there is against this kind of racial discrimination, the better. The way things are looking in NYC, we're going to need a lot of prior precedent to help our cause. While the cases in New Haven and Buffalo are a good start, the reality is, these types of cases won't really go away until the Supreme Court actually addresses the disparate impact clause and sets the law straight. I can't wait for that day....

Sure is! It has eye balls and everything

That's correct. "Rescue 6" isn't really a company. It was the unit designation used for the RNC convention. It was staffed by S.O.C. members from Squads and Rescues around the city.

From what I know, the Pierce held up just fine. Problem is, it didn't follow the fleet divisions desire to keep everything standard. By replacing all 5 Rescues it puts them all in line for a common replacement in 10 years and keeps them identical to one another. The current rig they are assigned will go to the spare pool along with any others worth keeping. If deemed too worn, they'll be auctioned.

Bulls*&t. I don't anyone (especially those who could find themselves in this position on any given day) who'll accept this as the new reality. I don't want to do more with less. I want to do what's necessary with the appropriate resources. I'm getting tired of this fight every spring. Firehouse closures....pensions ruining our economy...B.S! Why are pension contributions up? Because of dwindling returns on the city's investments. Well....they should have planned better for a downturn in the market. Perhaps they shouldn't have said, "we're doing so well on our returns we can skip our annual contributions". I never got to skip my contributions. My pension didn't get any better when they were making money hand over fist in the market. They want it both ways. Make money with our money when times are good and take more money from us when times are bad. They made bad bets and now the public has to buck-up in the form of more tax dollars to pension payments. They mismanaged money and want to blame unions and pensions for teacher lay-offs and firehouse closings. They made agreements with the unions that they could afford. They played fast and loose in the open market and took a beating. We didn't benefit when they were up, so why should we pay when they're down. Wouldn't it be nice to see politicians take the blame for their mistakes? Guess that'll be the day....

My firehouse was visited by the deputy and battalion in the past week, both said that the information from the recent chief's conference at HQ was that closures are off the table.

The real issue here is, how much control the city can exude over it's police officers when they're off duty. I don't work for the NYPD, but I DO work for the city of New York and I'll be damned if I let them tell me what I can and can't wear while I'm off duty. Simple fact is, they don't pay me enough to control my life 24/7/365. They barely pay me enough to be on duty 50 hours a week... Look, it's bad enough that you can get fired for a DWI that's gotten while off duty. I know...DWI's are a terrible thing and I understand the need for the job to enforce it, but it's yet another encroachment on my time and life as a private citizen, not a uniformed officer. Mayor Bloomberg states that NYPD officers are "always NYPD officers"...to that I say....I guess you'd better pay them about 120 hours of overtime a week, because that's the time they're not "on duty", but really always are according the Mayor Mike.

No, as stated, the division chief is a deputy chief. The division office is staffed with 4 Deputy Chiefs (1 works at a time), a Captain who serves as the office manager and a few firefighters. This office handles officer staffing for the entire division. They assign more junior officers, who don't have a company assignment, to work a tour someplace when someone is sick or on vacatsion, ect. This is the same for battalion chiefs. Occasionally, a Battalion Chief may work in the division for a tour. This is called an ADC, acting division chief. They will then fill that battalion with a captain who will ABC, acting battalion chief.

If I had good information to help dispel myth, yes. We really need to remember that we're not dealing with a Fire Department here. We don't really know what we're dealing with. All we know is that there is some guy named Romero who's 28 and calls himself "chief" and says he has 60 active qualified members. There's no firehouse, only an office with a phone number that no one answers. There are a few pieces of apparatus, but no equipment. These are guys who show up at emergency scenes and operate, but don't belong. If you check, I'm sure you won't find that this happens with Edgewater, ect. They have an organization with a command structure of some sort, ect. Aviation does not exist, they had trouble years ago and went out of service permanently. This is a few people who've resurrected a name only.

Nice video. Shot well and explained well. All I might add is that: 1) You can start with the bevel facing AWAY from the door at first. Sometimes on a really tight door, you might need that curvature facing the other way so you can slip passed the initial gap. Once you've got that(this might save you from driving the forks into the frame), flip the tool the conventional way to complete the job. 2) Leave the axe, bring a maul. That extra heft might save you a lot of effort and time. Again, nice job on the video.

They have office space in a building that is shared with a law firm on White Plains Rd., 1 driving mile from Eng. 96 and Lad. 54.