ddoyle195

I think anything in production is pretty much stuck unless it's a truck that was purchased via a grant. However anything that is not been started can pullout. Customers that have trucks in production can exercise penalty clauses for late deliveries.

A little of both. The stuff that needs to get done they are waiting on parts to finish, or chassis's to finish them up. And there are others that are patially complete sitting and waiting because they either need parts and or chassis's.

American La France Hamburg "Furloughed" 20 employees last friday. They are due to come back mid February. However all plants are working with bare bones crews and nothing has moved out the door, meaning their first quarter looks pretty sad if you've put nothing out the door. Also ALF will not be at Fire Rescue East in Jacksonville later this month. They pulled out their inside display and will not be there at all. Very Interesting!!!

What upsets me is we seem to settle for less. The pure mission of the F-15 Eagle has always been air to air combat. The navy decided to replace the F-14 Tomcat with less of a fighter the FA/18 hornet. Even with the upgrades of the Super Hornet that cannot fullfill the tru roll the Tomcat did, and go as fast. Same story with the F-15 Eagle. The F-22 Raptor is a very impressive aircarft, and very technologically advanced. But in a dogfight how does the F-22 compare to the F-15? Fighter jets take much more beating on the airframe and structural components than any other aircarft in the aresenal. It just sucks seeing the best dam fighters in the world period being taken out of service, I just hate settling for less. FF Nick I'm going to miss the A-10 as well, and what kills me in that respect were settling for second best again. No aircraft in the US aresenal can take the pounding the A-10 does from enemy fire and explosives, and no other aircraft can COMPLETELY do what the A-10 does. Ground troops feel much easier knowing an A-10 is loitering in the target area vs. an F-16, or FA-18.

Now that has been solved, does anyone know where Ardsley's Young crusader engine went to?

Nice looking rig all the way around! I would be concerned where that Q2B siren is mounted, it would have been nice if they could have mounted it behind the front bumper for you guys where that opening is. But none the less nice looking rig and good luck with it!

Pic 4. I always wondered how this truck got out to the Western New York area. I've noticed this truck sitting in Darien Center since 2004 and last I knew when I left Western New York in August it is still there.

Pic 3

Pic 2

I have to say this department has been very interesting to me. These pictures may cure some people's curiopusities where this rig ended up. Anyone recognize this former Rye, NY tiller? It is located at a scrap company called Stanley Staba & Sons., 1933 Broadway Road, Darien Center, NY (585) 547-2219. I'm not sure what he would sell the truck for, anyone interested call up and see. Darien Center is located 45-50 minutes east of the City of Buffalo, NY.

Spring Valley, NY, Rockland Hook & Ladder company. This is a RD Murray/American La France Rescue pumper, 1000gpm, 500gal., Rescue 17. They just recently bought a mid mount American La France/LTI aerial that's the same color. Once this truck was gold leafed and the graffics added it looks sharp! I like it because it looks different. When you see red fire trucks all the time it's nice to see something unique once in a while.

My personal preferences are the following: 1) American La France 2) Pierce 3) 4 Guys 4) Seagrave 5) Crimson 6) Sutphen If they were still around my 1 & 2 would be Young & Maxim Remember 585 hit the nail on the head perfect by saying this right off the bat: "First off, I think a lot of it has to do with the way you spec it out. People complain about the apparatus but when you really look into it you see that their specs weren't very specific leaving room for "cheaper" design." Oh how true it is! There are many variables to speccing out a fire apparatus that can go wrong. Sales, Engineering, production, service, and yes THE FIRE DEPARTMENT! What the fire department? I think the fire department in a 1/4 of the cases are their own worst enemy when you spec out a rig. Some departments are phenominal, have done research for a few years and come up with the following: Vehicle desired- what is it your looking for? Apparatus Budget Requested delivery Maximum height, width, & length. What is the functions this truck will be expected to do for you (Ex. 1st out piece, mutual aid, mva's, multi tasking, etc.). What type of Engine & transmission Crew capacity Steel or aluminum wheels Flat or raised roof cab What size pump you want and what brand of pump you want Is the pump housing going to be midship, top mount, or rear mount Water tank size and material of the water tank (Traditional you"ll have fiberglass or polypropolene unless you get into tankers.) Is the truck going to have a foam system or is your department going to carry foam on the truck and the firefighters dump the foam in the water tank. What body material do you you want to go with Equipment data- Where you want your present equipment to be located. Also what is the proposed new equipment to be ordered with the new vehicle. Two other big ones to consider is a generator for the truck. What size of generator, hydraulic, disel, and where the generator is to be located. Believe it or not where the generator is to be located is big! For example putting a generator in the upper dunnage area of your pump enclosure may take up space for extra equipment. Also make sure the manufacturer gives adequate ventilation for the generator to run properly. Hydraulic generators especially run hot and need proper ventilation for the unit to cool! The other is the rating of the front and rear axles. This is a simple theory, if the truck is sagging without any equipment just imagine what it would weigh once you jam all your equipment in it. Is it the engineers fault for not designing the truck properly, partially. The other problem comes with the information the truck committee gives the sales and engineering department. Here's a hypathetical example: If the fire department says well we have about 4000lbs of additional equipment to put on the truck when in actuality it weighs 10,000lbs. thats going to make the truck much heavier. Remember 585 also hit it on the head which most fire departments don't understand is all fire apparatus manufacturers use the same vendors for a majority of the things you put on a fire truck. I think the biggest variance is with pumps and Pierce only builds on Waterous pumps last I knew. Servicing of your new vehicle will also make life a little more difficult. Saying "I won't go with an American La france because we can't stand dealing with their service" is bogus in my opinion. Or saying "We're not going to buy a 4guys because where are we going to get it serviced?" Thats bogus too. Yes each manufacturer has warranties on these vehicles. In my opinion If you don't like a dealership don't take your truck to them for service, take it to another dealership you like, or take it to an independant dealership. Ya for warranty work your going to pay for it rather tan being covered by the appropriate dealership but thats up to the fire department on what they do. Back home there is a fire department who has a fleet of Sutphens, but will take their trucks to an ALF dealership because they like the service. In closing what I am saying is this: A) Come to the table with your truck commitee with an open mind and with people who have strangths in each area. Yes we all want our names on that plaque that will be on that truck for 20 years, and 9 out of 10 times your commitee is made up of line officers, but put people on that commitee who have backround in electrical, who are auto tech's, who are truck drivers and let them voice their opinions. Take your time with this. Remember this vehicle is serving your community for at least 10 years if not longer. If you rush and slap a truck together and once you get it realize this is not what we wanted, guess what your stuck with. That usually starts the bad mouthing about apparatus manufacturers. If it takes you 2-3 years to spec a vehicle between the time of going to trade shows to see whats out there and to meet with respective salesmen, then do it! Things will always change within the time span you have your rig. You"ll add, delete, reconfigure a truck, you"ll never build the perfect truck that will never change. Also narrow your search down at some point after you meet with the respective salesmen and take the pro's and cons of each company and see what best fits your fire department. C) When you talk to salesmen for each manufacturer give him as much information as possible to work with. Chances are the more you give him to work with the better he or she can help you build the right truck for your department. D) If there is something you want, make sure it is in your spec!!! Come May when you have one month left to go before the truck gets to your station and you want addional lights put on, chances are the manufacturer will charge you for it. Most manufacturers will charge you for additional items after a specified date that you can make change orders. This is done because your truck was bid at a certain price, and the manufacturer doesn't want to loose money by giving a department items for free. Also the more stuff you add during the production of the truck, the longer it will take to build and get delivered to your staion. E) Another good tip is have all loose equipment you want to be mounted on your new vehicle at the plant or respective dealership by a certain date. For example if a manufacturer or dealership has to mount your hydraulic tools they not only need to know where they are going but what type of tool it is. Some shops use pre manufactured mounting, some fabricate mounting stuff, and not every tool is the same.

pentax02839: It is that bright red. Also the sun was hitting the truck perfect on that side when I took the picture.

Last I knew Westhampton Beachs's Young Crusader was in Vermont for sale. I don't know if it still is or not.

Tallman Young Crusader Snorkle- Still in service ! It serves with the Randolph, NY fire department out my way in in the Southerntier of Western New York. I have photographed this rig while getting service work at my work, I is quite a sharp looking and running rig!

Yes fsw1970 is correct. The best place to find out about the Young Fire apparatus is on www.firepics.net I forget if I restarted that post or Andy Pagano. Anyway Here are some answers to the apparatus questions some of you had: Ardsley, NY 1972 Young Crusader Sold to Monserrat, an island in the Carribean. Harrison Young Crusader Tallman Young Crusader Snorkle- Still in service ! It serves with the Randolph, NY fire department out my way in in the Southerntier of Western New York. I have photographed this rig while getting service work at my work, I is quite a sharp looking and running rig! Springdale (Stamford) CT Young Snorkle- This was answered by pjreilly: SPRINGDALE'S SNORKEL IS STILL IN SPRINGDALE RARELY USED Lake Mohegan Nanuet- I know Nanuet's Snorkel ended up in South Carolina or like Virginia. It then was sold on ebay. No idea where it is today. Hillcrest- fsw1970 is correct, it is still out his way. It served at Harrisburg IL, until 2001, and is supposed to be privately owned in Mount Vernon IL. It was being used to to tree trimming, roofs, or painting buildings. It then was sold on ebay and is now privately owned. It may be still out in IL, maybe not. Thats the tough thing with rigs being sold on ebay, the hunt is on to track them down again Spring Valley- I heard this rig was scrapped, can anyone verify this? Pearl River Verplank- This was answered by irishfire2491: Verplanck Old Snorkel is Located in Middleburg Still in use TODAY. East Fishkill I am curious to see what happened to the Youngs out here in Western New York. Lets see what we can come up with, I hope I answered some people's questions.

In September 2006 my fire department (Doyle Hose Company No. 1, Cheektowaga, NY) took delivery of a E-One Typhoon Rescue pumper 1500gpm, 780gal, seating a total of eight firefighters, five of those seats accomodate air packs. This truck you've seen in Fire/Rescue, 1st responder Broadcast Network, and Fire Apparatus Magazine. We use to respopnd with our Engine 2 for mutual aid and this truck pretty much has everything we needed for mutual aid. Doyle Engine 2 also carries two preconnected Hurst Maverick tools and a Hurst Ram, Foam Pro system with two 35 gallon foam cells. The new pumper Doyle Engine 1 does not have an onboard foam system, nor does it carry the Hydraulic tools like Engine 2 does. On a fire we mutual aided to for the Village of Sloan, NY back in late January early February there were a couple of tools we needed on that fire we could have used: a Little Giant ladder and a Dry wall hook. The little giant ladder eventually we used from our substation Doyle Hose Company No. 2 off their Rescue 7, but the Dry wall hook we did get and we used statndard Pike poles and Closet hooks to rip out some walls from the exterior of a small roof on the #3 side of the structure. My question to you folks out there is this: 1) What tools and equipment do you carry on your mutual aid pumper, 2) Also the quantity of each of the tools. The good news is that a new Dry Wall hook from Fire Hooks Unlimited should be showing up any day now, however I don't know if we would be able to get a Little Giant ladder on our Engine 1. The reason why we send our Engine 1 for Mutual aid is because thats one of the things we designed the rig for. Doyle Engine 2 has been a work horse from when we got it in 1999-september 2006. We've put quiote a few miles and pump hours on that truck and it has responded fantastic for us. However we need the longevity out of that truck being that it runs all Motor Vehicle Accidents in our district along with Doyle 2's Rescue 7. We were also taking away the ability of Auto Extrication out of Doyle 1 if we were mutual aided. I'm not saying Engine 1 cannot handle the job, but I always look to improve things and our situation and I look forward to you fellow brothers for some helpful idea's.

Picture # 2 with a much closer view.

Here are a couple of shots from the Buxton Inn fire Lake Shore had a couple weeks ago as you may have seen from the 1st Responder website. Hamburg Tower 6 in action and I"ll let you folks tell me what you see in these two shots.