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Ok so it didn't fly in space but's damn important. It was the prototype for all the others...and still continued to serve long after she was a museum piece. After the Columbia disaster, a piece of her wing tile was used as a research aide to help discover the problem. That being said, the Intrepid has a pretty poor record of maintaining things...I hope they step up to the plate. Anyone who doubts that can look at the airplane collection that has only just recently begun to be stabilized and repaired or the huge amounts of graffitti on the interior of the Concorde. I sure hope the government signed a good contract stipulating the care and if necessary a repossesion clause.

I love the statue analogy!!! For the record, she's only 124. Still looks damn good for her age. I completely agree with Bnechis, the government should be involved with history and preservation. It's bad enough we lose so many things with a storied past because people either don't know or don't care. I understand the importance of budget and priorities but to simply paint with such a broad stroke is just plain short sighted. It further is upsetting when there are legitmate offers of help and interest that are ignored as cited by X635. In this case all it might have taken was a phone call...

I vote for those tire puncture devices on all higway entrances that can be easily mistaken esp w/ impairment ie sawmill, taconic etc. Cheap one time cost, little to no upkeep or staffing. Stop them before they get miles down the highway and cause needless havoc.

Exactly abaduck, much of the costs that the city aims to recoup is already inherent to the system. You are also right in the sense that this will only work if none of voluntaries pull out of the system. Then the city will have pure profit. But in this current economy w/ hospitals in NYC closing left and right, I really don't see that happening. Emergecny medicine at hospitals is a losing business as it is...this cost can only make that worse.

This is penny wise and pound foolish. Ok so the city gets $$ from the voluntaries in order from them to play. But if as the article states, if many hospitals can't afford to play, they pull out. They pull out and what happens? FDNY has to either pick up the slack or face the music when response times go up. If they choose to pick up the slack, the money for those extra tours has to come from somewhere. The city is still crying broke, so how does this make sense?? This is simply another way for FDNY (both admin and union) to force the voluntaries out of the system; only this time they found Bloomberg as an ally. Anyone who doubts that should search for the letter that the FDNY union posted after North Gen closed telling its members to pick up the extra tours to show the other "non professionals" that they were not needed in the system. What slack did FDNY pick up after OLM closed? OLM aka Monte still provides the same units it always has. Yes the ALS unit got taken away by FDNY, yet magically months later they were assigned another BLS in its place. What costs does the city absorb? Perhaps one or two extra dispatchers and a few radios?.Certainly cheaper than a full out bus and crew. The docs would be on call anyway so no savings there. Correct me if I'm wrong but the city pays nothing to the voluntaries; it doesn't pay their bosses or crews. The bosses have no operational control, FDNY does. I've said it once, I'll say it again, FDNY is not the be all to end all for EMS in NYC. I don't care who saves my loved one in an emergency so long as they do their job and do it right.

What local paper? Any chance of a link?

Ok so, anyone listen to who posted the sign? BLM...now how many times do we hear about their rangers, agents and investigators? Not very often. I am going to hazard a guess and say that like most federal land management agencies, they are responsible for immense portions of land with little to no back up and not nearly enough resources. Seems to me that rather than get caught not adeqautely protecting the public w/ limited resources or putting their personnel in extra danger they decided on a more proactive approach of warning the public. Not an ideal situation, but certainly better than civilians running into the criminal elements. And before anyone jumps down my throat, I abselutely believe that a task force needs to go in there and kick some serious butt.

Video I know this is going to start a whirlwind of debate here, but I'm curious to see what people think. So according to media/department sources one or both of the troopers in the video most likely were mandated by their job to be cross trained as FD. Coming from NYC background where FD does not roll to a fire w/o being ready to roll upon arrival, it strikes me odd that the responders here had to stop to don gear or otherwise prepare. Seems to me like a good stop and a great example of teamwork...everybody pitching in towards a common goal. Comments?

Nothing very concrete...the example you presented said nothing concrete as to why the system failed....if anything it simply said the PSD was incompetent at running a fire, doesn't matter the title or system that can happen anywhere...doesn't mean the system is necessarily wrong. TxChief's response was good, and if you read, did not necessarily condemn the system just pointed out the problems that it comes with. No system is perfect...so nothing too opinion altering. As for the response, from what I read the system did not fail at all, but simply was phased out when money came available. What system doesn't spend more when times are better? I'm open to the possibilities, but I need cold hard numbers and evidence, not editorialized opinions or polls.

This is exactly the kind of antiquated, close minded attitude that I expected to see from the "veterans". You had other posters presenting evidence or first hand knowledge that the concept can work. Heck, you even had those who criticized a lack of PPE showing interest in the idea but you guys chose to stand on "well it worked back so far, no need to change anything" attitude. It's that kind of attitude that squashes the will to learn and keeps us at each others throats instead of focusing on the main issue...helping the public. EMSJunkie you said SO WHAT if the road is closed forever, but our job is more than that, our job is to get home safe SURE but also to help the public and guess what, that includes the ones sitting behind our barricades while we take our time cleaning up, smoking cigarettes, taking cell phone pictures of the scene etc. Instead of bashing the idea, how about coming up with a solution such as suggesting that the crosstrained LEOs carry a set of PPE in their trunk for situations like these. Guess that was too hard to figure out for all you guys w/ so many years on...

A few privates w/in the city have a unit that can be equipped with bariatric stretcher and ramp. Don't know if FDNY does, I suppose if they were willing to swallow their pride they could have an agreement with one of those companies rather than spend the money outfitting one of their busses and risking their peresonnel.

Agreed,two things stand out. "To extent practiable"...that's a lawyers field day. All PA has to say is a single handed response on their end is not practicable. Second, as folks have pointed out, no one expects a single agency response (although home agency may want to), so it's perfectly acceptable for them to be in compliance by saying our plan is to respond with all our units and activate mutual aid to cover the rest so long as they are specific in their plan..thats seems to be what the law is aiming at. I must agree with the news though, poor management has turned excellent assets into a complete waste!

Correct, USPP-NYFO does have one, out in Jamaica Bay. Difference is theirs is out on the water all the time, doing security sweeps, special events, recovery and search and rescue. Never even seen or heard of the PA boats doing anything of like.

Wow, I love how everyone dismisses a younger member's claims. Like not one of the veteran guys have seen an organization acting like a current members only club? Come on. Personally, I have witnessed and or heard of this happening often and regardless of the original poster's issues, it needs to stop. In a time where work weeks are increasing in hours and jobs are harder to find, volunteers are harder and harder to come by. Every organization that even thinks of asking for someone to sacrifice their time should be doing everything they can to allow volunteers to give their time, not throw up antiquated and prideful barriers. I understand response times, but if a member can get there in a good time, who cares wheres he's coming from?? If my organization relied on members who lived in there area, guess what we would have three members, all the rest come from outside the area, and some from signifigant distances. If companies are worried about response times, make members coming from a longer distance stand full tours in house so their response time won't be an issue, and as a matter of fact the response time of the company would be better b/c there's memebers at the house. Everyone always complains about volunteers killing xyz service...how about current administrations????

Rest in peace; thank you for your service. Condolences to those Station 57 and SeniorCare EMS!

The guy hit the nail on the head, we're all in this together. Was what he did the brightest move? Probably not, as it could have backfired and caused the damage/injury he was seeking to prevent. We don't want EMS or FD getting involved an police matter b/c they think they can do a better job, however he saw a opportunity to end what has been documented many times as a dangerous situation. As a trained emergency vehicle operator of what I can only guess to be a few years, lets give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he knew his vehicle and it's abilities...from the video looks like his maneuver was executed well and had good results. Here we go with the discretion argument again, given the situation this would be the perfect opportunity to exercise it... a warning for breaking the law, but a small unofficial thank you for assitance in the common effort of public safety/service. Want discipline? Let the guy serve a day or two inhouse suspension for bad driving or maybe damage to the company vehicle. Why potentially wreck a man's career when the situation ended postively and there are other avenuse to accomplish what the police want?

Ok agreed, so how about we refocus the discussion to the fact that if you looked at the picture, at least one of the responders is not wearing gloves and is covered in blood, and the inside tube of pocket mask pretty close to the mouthpiece looks pretty bloodied too. Have we learned nothing in years and years of responding?? Why take the risk??? Its not like there is a lack of medical education in Vancouver Cananda...

Your right, Hatzolah will probably continue to operate w/ the same impunity they always have. But the other statement is simply the FDNY party line, bet if you any volly org they'll tell you calls are down and things have changed.

I'm aware that many agencies have good relations with the guys who pound the dirt, and that calls were routinely made when it got near the end of tour or the tour was busy ...shows that the folks on the street just have a better clue than those who run the outfit....and that we can all work together. That being said, in a dire emergency EMS would call the agencies anyway, logged in or not...so why tell them to log in the first place if they were not willing to "give them jobs". The training comment is without merit. First off, most of the folks who work for FDNY got their cert from somewhere else before going to the Academy...the same places those "less qualified" as you put it, vollies did. Does the FDNY have some great pneumonics, go into a little more depth in some areas, or teach things in a slightly different way? Sure does! That does not mean that our FDNY brothers and sisters are are any more qualified to give patient care: the state certifies EMTs NOT FDNY. There was a time when many volunteer EMS agencies had done pilot progams for EPI pens...FDNY had not rolled on that yet so if techicalities are to be argued, then the vollies were ahead the curve and more qualified not FD. As for supervision, I seem to recall that in order to be given a unit designation, get a sticker and participate w/in the system volunteer agencies had to agree to submit to the control of the FDNY bosses onscene. Even if that were not in writing, I can not imagine that a volunteer unit would not defer to the supervision of a boss...who in most times is a higher medical authority. Yes I'm sure there would be instances of disagreement, but FDNY techs and medics disagree with their bosses as well. If by supervision you mean that the vollies have their own bosses, that is correct. However, voluntaries w/in the system have company supervisors that they are responsible to as well. Magically, there seems to be no conflict, no complaints that the FDNY can't control them. Moogie6: Vollies come from all walks of life. Some work EMS full time, others do not. I personally know of volunteers who work or have worked for FDNY, private transport companies in the city, voluntary hospitals in the system, hospitals, federal agencies, NYPD, other city agencies and EMS education companies.

Vollies have been assigned jobs, or have called, asked if there any jobs holding and been given all but psych calls. This has varied depending on the borough, some dispatchers were more friendly than others when assigning jobs. Even if it's just a procedural change as claimed...take your statement, why is heavens name would FDNY turn down help with jobs holding??? Crews on the street don't ask for volly names, they as for MARS designation. on the chance the call goes to the vollies ..that's what they put on the ACR and report on the computer.

Yes most if not all have the 911 participating agency stickers, MARS radios, unit designations, provided turnout gear etc...does that mean that they were actually used?? All of these agencies primary responsibilties were to there respective campuses, and were always dispatched/toned out by their respective schools. In the past, similiar to any other volly agency in the city could log in via radio or landline into the 911 system and theoretically respond to/be assinged calls. Whether or not they were assigned calls as opposed to the agency simply reporting being flagged and taking a job number is up in the air. TJdeputy: Dispatchers/calltakers at MARS were instructed to not accept requests from volly agencies to be placed in service in the CAD system. If the agency is not in the system, there would be no reason or way of calling the agency, thereby pretty much eliminating them all together. Jetphoto: Your abselutely correct, each call that the vollys don't respond to is more money for EMS...but at what cost?? Look at it plainly and they're choosing potential bigger budgets and revenues over lives...and not really having the numbers/proof to back it up.

I can't stand the Post, but kudos to them for shedding light on a abselutely ridiculous situation that's been going on for almost two months now. This is abselutely no reason for this. FDNY, as usual can't bear the thought of having to deal with another agency if they can get away with it. Unfortunately FDNY is the municipality and controls the 911 call centers, the vollies, despite having state certificates of need don't have enough muscle to push back. If I recall, they only recently overcame the attrition problem caused by resignations, retirements, etc and still mandate workers for OT...as a tax payer if that means one less bus has to go out on OT b/c I have a ready willing and able volly crew available I want it. And before it begins, vollies have the same certifications and their FDNY counterparts....so lets not turn this into a who's better equipped to respond debate. I hope James Vacca (public safety chair) and the rest of the council reject this notion that never volly squad will ever be needed in the day to day operations of NYC ems and smacks some sense into FDNY. It's totally unacceptable to say "well I'm sorry your mother, sister, brother father died b/c our ambulance was to late to save them while a volly bus could have responded but instead sat idly by b/c we don't like them so we didn't call them" There are better ways to do this!

Lets cut the bull...big deal, anyone can (and did) call 911. It doesnt take a CFR, EMD, EMT, medic or doctor to tell someone to call 911. I guess you don't eat out much at all, b/c most food service locations at some point have some sort of gloves for prep. Most also have saran wrap...hello makeshift faceshield. Or ever see all those signs that sy CPR kit located behind counter? That's required by law. Perhaps you were unaware of the studies about compression only CPR being very effective? I'm sorry, I refuse to give the benefit of the doubt to two people who disgrace the uniform they were wearing and give the rest of us a bad name. Even if they were negligent and didnt perform any assesments or interventions, they still could have stayed by the patients side. At least then they would have been good human beings and New Yorkers. There are too many things that could have been done in this situation to even remotely defend these guys. Further, I agree with the others here, they were on duty for the agecny having juristidtiction...so long as FDNY says they have to (and i highly believe they do) they had a duty to act according to NYS; there is no legal defense.

I agree theres always been problems ie not being able to enter cross streets or locations w/o addresses into the system manually... but correct me if I'm wrong, but unless theres a gigantic console w/ every 10-code that gets pushed for a call, why not just say, I have an xyz at 123 st...why bother w/ 10 codes in this instance and give another chance to screw up?