AFS1970

After discussing a few different incidents I came up with this question? When, if ever, does someone stop being one of our own? Several different circumstances lead to this question, which I think crosses over the Career/Volunteer or Police/Fire/EMS borders. Often we read about bad or criminal behavior on the part of a Member of Service and join together in calling it a “black eye” for the respective service, but when is enough just enough? Here are two sanitized cases with most of the details intact that illustrate what I am talking about. A retired member of service develops or reveals a certain criminal tendency after retirement, which leads to multiple arrests, and ultimately some jail time. After he is released he continues to have problems and ends up with a relatively minor warrant issued for him. When the PD units go to serve the warrant, other members of the service are heard saying that they must have nothing better to do than arrest one of ours. The question is how much criminal activity and how many arrests does he have to accumulate before he stops getting the courtesy and respect of a member of the service he retired from? A former member of a service was dismissed due to a crime against the agency. There was very likely a substance abuse issue involved with the crimes. Over the years he has moved out of town, joined other agencies and apparently stopped abusing the substances he once did. Many of the current members of the service do not remember him as a member, due to the time that has passed. He periodically comes back to events related to the service, and acts like there is nothing wrong, and sometimes like he is still involved. Should he be welcomed back with open arms? I'll be the first to say that I do not know the answers, but it is interesting to think about. Especially when so many of us bemoan the fact that the media is always quick to mention service affiliation when something bad happens involving one of ours.

Stamford also has a Duce and a Half, it is kept at the drill field but was placed in service during the storm, I believe. Seeing that USCG rig, made me remember, wasn't it Miami that had the amphibious engine, back in the 1980's?

Off hand I would say no, it is like the numerous other support units from other agencies, including tow trucks, cranes, dump trucks, ect. that may be called on infrequently to assist the emergency services. During a recent incident in Stamford where multiple streets needed to be shut down, the Traffic Department was requested to the scene with a truck load of saw horse type barricades. In order to get themthrough the traffic and deploy the resource, we sent a polic car to escort them ligths & sirens to the scene. I would assume that the same could be accomplished with a truck like this con-ed truck, or the similar vac trucks that are in service in many Highway Departments, in our area. As the public becomes more and more desensitized to our warning devices, the last thing we need to do is add more non or semi emergency vehicles to the list of who can have what.

Any delays that are inherent in the system are exactly the reason we should not be dispatching late. If we know for example that the VAC / FD will have to assemble a crew and then respond to the scene, isn't it in everyone's best interest to dispatch that agency as soon as possible? One reason for dual dispatch was explained to me a few years ago, when a high number of assaults were being reported as man down / unknown medical. EMS would get to the scene, treat the patient, transport the patient, and then the hospital would report the assault. By that time, there was no viable crime scene, and little chance of apprehending an assailant. So for a while we had to send PD to any man down / unknown medicals. This quickly went away, after it was discovered that the vast majority of these calls were not criminal matters. Still and all, there is no reason to send any agency first to another services primary responsibility. In my dispatch center structure fires are routed to both the Fire & Police Dispatchers. Since Police units generally have a shorter response time, as they are on the road already, they can usually get to the scene faster. I have seen many dispatchers send PD, as the tones are being transmitted and they are on scene prior to the FD units signing on (even fully staffed career units) which leads to the inevitable arguments on who parks where. Some of us are beginning to wait for the FD to get a fighting chance then sending the PD for the support roles of traffic control and scene security.

BUt why is that red thing sitting in front of a the engine? lol. And then there were 4.

I actually made a point of not using any unit number, since I am on my 4th, with a blank spot in between #'s 2 & 3. And why on earth would you wish that on me? What have I ever done to you?

I have always wondered how anyone can say that any Fire Department, especially FDNY fails to recruit. Every piece of fire apparatus that drives down the street is a recruitment poster, every neighborhood firehouse is a recruiting station. Since New York City has more of these than anywhere else, it seems to me that no one can claim ignorance of the fact that the city regularly tests for and hires Firefighters. Lawsuits like this just do not make any sense.

I have certainly killed my share of threads, but posting here seems like we are now all collectively a life support machine of sorts (at least for this thread). Although, whoever finally posts last here, will be the ultimate thread killer, having killed a thread on killing threads.

Wierd, funny but wierd.

For the most part I also think we should avoid assigning the RIT to non RIT duties, especially if the situation gets rapidly worse. Isn't that exactly when the RIT needs to be at the top of their game? However it really all boils down to knowing your resources both on scene and in quarters. If you know your next in RIT is close and can respond quickly, then you can back fill the RIT. If your next due RIT is a good distance away and will have a delayed response for any reason, then you need to keep the original RIT in place. Don't be afraid to call for more units, you can always send them back, but only call for units you realistically think you are going to utilize.

This sure isn't a pretty rig, but it does accomplish the goal of visability. I noticed the painted rims also, as well as the lime yellow lug nuts. Even the fuel cap is painted in a contrasting color. This is aparently part of a total concept of visability. I think it is also very interesting that England is an older country than America, and probably hangs on to traditions even more than we do, yet they have embraced this or similar color schemes on Fire, EMS & Police apparatus, while here in America we see comparatively few rigs with high visibility markings.

I had seen the pics over at EMTBravo.com a few times, but never checked out the forums. It wasn't until I was talking with Jason762 at work that he showed me the forums. I lurked around a bit and decided to join. Since then I have discovered other people I work with and other members of my FD who are members here, some of them even post occasionally.

I know we had an old (and out of date) SOP that required members to step down from active service at 65. I have never seen it enforced, but we also don't have a lot of 65 y/o members fighting to be active. If there is a state law I would like to see it, but I doubt there is one. There was a case in Stamford with relation to police officers that struck down mandatory retirement ages, I would think the same applies to firefighters as well. That and I know some other members here will remember the "Jurasic Truck". Which I will not name specifically by department, was nicknamed such due to the combined age of it's crew. As for responding to the station and not going on calls, there are a few incident related duties that still need to be done. A new policy that will likely be activated for this weekend's storm require us to supply a coordinator azt our watch desk and self dispatch if call volume becomes too large. I can think of no better use for a senior member that something like this, so we don't have to commit a younger active member to the task.

Like alot of the replies so far, BFD is for Belltown Fire Department, and 182 is my ID number at the department. Our numbers are assigned when we join, and are simply a way of identifying us, that is used in record keeping only and not on the fireground. I created this screen name for the Firehouse Forums (although I rarely if ever post there anymore), and carried it over to VolunteerFD.org, as well as a couple of other lesser known fire forums. So when I was told about this site and decided to register, it just seemed logical to keep it going. I did make a conscious effort to stay away from unit numbers to avoid not being current, I didn't know how popular the whole "x" thing was on this site. It has worked out, because I am currently on my 4th unit number but I am still 182 in the department records.

The First Black over Red rig in Stamford was actually one of the former Rescue 77's from Long Ridge which had a black roof on the body. So really this is a return to the color scheme for Long Ridge. But who cares about all those other colors anyway? Fire Apparatus is supposed to be WHITE.

I generally agree that EMS should be it's own service, but in this case I have to wonder how a seperate VAC would be any better or worse than the current FD run service. Since the vehicles and stations and other infrastructure are already in place, it seems to me like a class of membership that only run EMS calls could augment those that are currently cross trained. Just a thought.

There are two Operations (our fancy new name for DPW) yards. The City Garage is on Magee Av, and the Town Yard is on Haig Av, in Belltown. This goes back to pree 1948 when there was the City of Stamford and the Town of Stamford. An interesting bit of local history is located very close to the Town Yard, at the entrance is a small brick 2 story tower that used to have a bay door in the front. That was at one time the Town Police Office. The Town Police moved accross the Street to a bigger building that still stands and is owned by the PD but unused right now. After the merger it became Precinct 2, but was later closed and housed the Auxiliary Police & their Rescue Unit until 1978. Since then it has had a variety of uses. There is even an old Paddy Wagon parked there, that was repainted Red and served the Auxiliary Fire Department before being decommissioned in 1978 or before. Both the Auxiliary PD & FD were disbanded in 1978, along with CD.

For years and tears (pre 9-1-1) my FD gave out phone stickers with the 7 digit emergency line. When 9-1-1 came to town almost 20 years ago, the phone company gave everyone stickers witht he new number. As recently as 2006 we still got a few fire calls on that old number, which is why we never disconnected it, but we no longer advertise it. Our apparatus has no phone number on it. I can understand the problem with one agency going first to check and advise, I don't agree with the solution of not utilizing 9-1-1 and the Enhanced information (ALI) that comes with it. I work in a combined dispatch center and all reported Structure fires are routed to both the Police and the Fire Dispatcher. Most Police Dispatchers act like they will explode if they don't start more than 2 cars lights and siren to the scene for whatever reason. This is foolish and ends up hampering the scene. Waiting a bit to send the police in after the FD would probably be a better choice, much like we wait to send the EMS units to assualts until the PD has secured the scene. And going off on a little tangent here, at least with teh cell providers I have dealt with, you can not easily get the information on a cell phone. You can call their corporate security division, and tell them all the details of your request and they evaluate it they feel you are deserving. If yes, then they fax you a form that you fill out and sign and fax back and they will call you with the info. If no, they will cheerfully tell you to wait until the morning and get a subpoena and sent it to their legal department. I understand that they are protecting their customers, however it is far from easy to get the info in a timely manner.

I do not think the idea of a Career Chief is regressive, but I can’t say it is all that progressive either. Not being from Larchmont, I don’t know all the internal motivations at play here, but it seems to me that Public Safety is not high on that list. It seems to me that the Mayor simply wants a controllable puppet in the Chief’s position, regardless of weather that individual starts out as a career or volunteer firefighter of any rank. Early on in this thread it was said that a Career Chief would be “accountable and accessible”, has the current Volunteer Chief shown not to be either of these? Or is it simply that he is more accountable to his membership than to the Mayor? I remember trying to find information on one of our old rigs once. I found the name of a department that had bought it, and called to this fairly rural community to get information. The county Dispatch Center gave me a number to contact the Chief at; it turned out to be his house. He was at work, but his daughter gave me that number and I talked to him. I apologized for bothering him at work, and he assured me that it was ok. Now that is an example of accessibility. I know I talked with my Chief about firehouse business yesterday while I was at home and he was at work, I can’t imagine Larchmont is all that different. Electing officers is not the problem so many people make it out to be. Our Chief serves a two year term. Our two most recent past Chiefs served 20 & 18 years respectively. Compared to Career Departments that hire Chief’s for 5 year contracts that are rarely finished or renewed, I would say we are at least on equal footing, in terms of consistency and ongoing mission. What is the difference between reelecting or reappointing (or failing to do so) at regular intervals? I also don’t think that call volume or the type of calls should enter into this all that much. No matter how many calls a department does, is there a lack of command? Have there been that many calls where no Chief Officer has responded? As long as you have adequate command there should, at least in theory, be no reason to replace or redesign that command structure. As for counting wires down, EMS calls or other not Structure Fires, I guess that all depends on if the Chief is going to be required to respond to those types of calls. If the Chief doesn’t go to EMS calls, the EMS call volume is irrelevant to the discussion of who should be Chief. Yes, this is about the balance of power, but at least from reading this thread, it seems far more political than firematic. That is not the right approach to whatever the real or imagined problems may be in this case.

The answer likely is All of the Above Is it just knowledge that's passed down? Do ex-cheifs familiar with the process help the current chief? I think past officers on both the line and administrative side either directly teach their successors or at least make themselves avalible for questions, on the budget. Are their budgeting classes offered? Is an accountant brought it? Budgeting is overed in CT's Fire Officer 2. With the advent of so many grant programs, there are grant writing seminars that cover some of these issues. Sometimes there are outside accountats brought in, but more often than not there are members with the skills needed to prepare a reasonable budget. Budgeting is important, and an efficient, well written one can do wonders for your department. Is it more than just "we'll buy this and do this"? It certainly should be more than this. It should be based on what we need to provide, what we are able to provide, and what we could potentially provide with better funding.

I remember seeing a game years ago at an arcade that was a driving game. If it was one player you drove an engine and if there was a second player both drove a ladder, the second controls were behind the first for the tiller. I never played that one, but I always thought the concept was pretty cool.

I know that there have been other cases trying to figure out if freelance photogrophers were actually members of the press, I don't remember the outcomes, but I know the issue was if they were employeed by a new agency or not. In a PIO course I took a few years ago they said even putting up tape does not truely limit the press from the scene. The only time you can keep them away is if they are in a very unsafe area or are hampering the emergency operations. As for the safety, one aspect that I had never thought of was that news employees are covered by workers comp when they are at a scene and working, so they are somewhat protected. I know I've dealt with news media on scenes, and never had a problem. I have a friend who used to buff calls and get pictures of the rigs at scenes. I was with him one night, he heard an MVA come in and went to take pictures. He was only interested in the fire apparatus, but since one of the vehicles was a police car and the officer was injured, the police told him to leave the scene. As a buff, he just left, no need to cause problems. I think if I was taking pictures that I needed for income, I would try a little harder.

The reason I didn't watch the webcast of the IAFF forum was that I knew, no matter who showed up, that this early in the race all they would do was say whatever they thought the organizers (in this case the union) wanted to hear. I'm not even sure why the Republicans bothered to show up, no matter whom votes for who on a personal level, no major union will even think about endorse a national Republican candidate. As for Rudy? If he had made a decision about running for Senate in a timely manner, New York (and by extension, the rest of us) might not have had Hillary. By the time he finally said no, there was no time to run a campaign that could beat the Hillary machine. That is on top of his questionable morals, like sitting in the front pew at Saint Patrick's Cathedral with his girlfriend while he was married. I know he's not the only adulterous politician, but flaunting it in a church? Just wrong. So far I am supporting Mitt Romney, but I haven't heard that mush from some of the other candidates. This race, because there are no incumbents, I think will be all about big names, and allot of candidates will get lost in the shuffle.

I believe the Westchester parade in Port Chester is on 9/15 this year. I am waiting on the invitation. Since we don't go to alot of parades, we are off most of the mailing lists for CT & NY. Generally we only go to local parades, big aniversaries and invites from friends (like PC).

When the NYPD was wearing Light Blue so die the APO's. When the change (back) to Dark Blue happened I remember reading on a different board that the APO's lobbied hard to change right along side of the rest of NYPD. I personally think that someone who is willing to shoot a police officer will do so regardless of what color shirt he is wearing. This, like all LODD's, is a senseless tragedy. But the blame here lies squarely with the assailant, not with the clothes.