AFS1970

I think the question of quality posting has already been answered almost by it's own question. Look at the replies to this thread, all are of substance, all express opinions, and none of them are only a few words long. To me, as a reader, that is what helps make a thread a good one, when all the participants contribute something meaningful or to put it another way of quality. Posts that ammount to little more than a "What He Said" or a "Yeah Cool" are the ones that obviously were intended to increas post count, and I haven't seen those around here. I have seen them frequently on some other non emergency service forums I post on. As for the points, why not try it out, really the true test of the system will be in what the prizes are. In the first few days we will all watch out totals climb and then we will likely level off. Once the first person wins a prize people will either start aiming for the next one if it is a cool prize or ignor it if they don't like the prize(s).

This does bring home the concept that terrorists are not just a buch of wack jobs or bored students. These were professional men. It is a stark reminder that as other have said before me, ANYTHING or ANYONE can be a threat at ANYTIME. We all need to be just a bit more vigilant, while trying our best to maintain a normal lifestyle, because disruption of the norm is the main goal of our enemy here, death and destruction are little more than tools for them to use as they seek to end our way of life.

In a perfect world all apparatus would be bought by the government of the jurisdiction it serves. However this is not a perfect world, and fundraising to by apparatus has for better or worse become a tradition in the volunteer fire service. I too wish the politicians would wake up and realize that apparatus is not cheap. It seems that there are only two options, either municipal funding or private funding. If the politicians want to stop this flea market, then they are going to have to help come up with the money some other way.

I for one hope that we are not making scapegoats out of the officers involved in this very preventable tragedy. From everything we have heard about this live burn, it does seem that safety standards were not in place or followed. However, if this fire was business as usual, and I have no idea if it was or not, I think it would be more important to fix the problem and make the department wide change, than it would be to fire a few individuals. There are plenty of departments out there conducting this type of training, and youtube as well as other sites are littered with the examples of training evolutions gone bad. But if the only difference is that this one happened to be the one where someone died, then lets concentrate on changing the patern and not the staff.

Is he the same kid that managed to take the A train for a ride a few years ago? I had head of a kid who showed up in uniform claimed to be there for overtime and was able to get an assignment. Officially he only made one trip before disregarding a signal light, but a friend who is a huge subway buff said he made a few round trips before being caught, though the city would never admit to that.

That's kind of cool the way they spelled out "Three" and "Four" on the doors. Is that something new or something standard on Bridgeport rigs? Either way it adds a nice touch and identity to the doors.

It is definately a neat idea. I too hope it brings out the lurkers without leading to a slew of "yeah, what he said" posts.

Let's not forget "Half off on Expired Baby Food" Now the big question is since there is one not too far from Broadway......will they make a squishee made entirely of syryp?

The others in that series are pretty enlightening also.

The story that always makes me remember this is one time I was part of a crew going to an Alarm call, automatic aid into another district. It was summer time and my helmet was sitting on the doghouse my coat was in my lap. Across the rig from me was a senior man and past officer who was suiting up, and grabing an air pack off of the standing rack next to him. He looked over at me and yelled to me to get dressed. I said it was a BS call and we were probably going to get canceled anyway. His reply was probably one of the most simple yet true statements on the topic there could be: Yes, but what if we don't? Despite our high false alarm rates, what if this is the call where it all goes to you know where in a handbasket. I am just as guilty as the rest of us in not always following these rules but I try to amke a conscious effort to do so. Of course the same argument could be made for running fast and furious to the Alarm calls in a personal vehicle, but I would counter that with two thoughts. First of all you are no help to anyone if you don't arrive in one piece. Second of all, responsed are dynamic and can be upgraded or downgraded as needed, the first person on scene will be quite vocal about the presence of a working fire and you can adjust things then without loosing too much time.

I have never flown AirTran, but I have flown Jet Blue, and unlike most of the folks on this forum, I wouldn't fly Jet Blue again if they were the only airline left in the world AND the tickets were free. Although I do know that evey airline has it's share of horror stories, it is not so much the problem that occurs but the way in which the airline handles the problem through customer service that is the deciding factor for me. I can see whay you would boycott AirTran after reading your story.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the goal was to raise money and as an aside also try and make the roads safer, why add a second kind of penalty? Couldn't the existing fines simply be increased? I think those new rates are way too high, but if the state want's to chage 3K for speeding then why not just change the law so they can write a 3K infraction?

Another one of my favorite topics / rants: Why should a requirement made by an insurance company (Or Cellular Provider, ect.) that is really only binding on their clients have any effect on how a police department responds to calls? In this day and age of higher call volume and not enough manpower, who are these private businesses to require anything? The Police department is a branch of the government and is specifically charged with investigating criminal matters. Here in CT we have no legal requirement to file police reports for Motor Vehicle Collisions, and I believe with the no fault laws, there is unlikely to be criminal proceedings in the vast majority of these calls. There should be no such thing as any outside entity requiring the police to do anything. At best they can request that something be done, but the decision on when and if to act has to rest with the police department, and should be an SOP. Insurance companies place these requirements on their clients so that they do not have to hire adjustors to investigate damage. They are using the police to do their work for them. If a company requires this report they should simply be told that the police department in question does not provide that service.

NEW YORK - Amtrak will host a Community Security & Emergency Preparedness Expo on Thursday, June 22, 2006, at New York Penn Station. The public expo is being presented in partnership with area law enforcement and emergency response agencies and is scheduled from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. at the station, which is located at 7th Avenue and West 32nd Street in New York City. Participating agencies that will provide crime prevention and emergency response materials include the Amtrak Police & Security Department and other railroad police departments; Operation Lifesaver; Federal Railroad Administration; New York City Police and Fire Departments; New York and New Jersey State Police; New York Port Authority; U.S. Customs; Transportation Security Administration; FEMA, Postal Inspectors; Drug Enforcement Agency; Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms; Coast Guard; Navy; Air Force; Marine Corps; Army; National Guard; Secret Service; FBI; and many others. Agencies will be displaying special units, such as Mobile Command Centers, illustrations and live demonstrations throughout the day. "Amtrak is proud of this opportunity to display the broad range of our local community partnerships and the ongoing commitment to the security of our passengers," said Al Broadbent, Amtrak Vice President Security. "The overwhelming response we received from local law enforcement and emergency response teams, and federal agencies, to participate in this expo demonstrates the strength of our partnerships and the shared desire to provide this type of information with our traveling public," said Amtrak Police Chief Sonya Proctor. --- While this looks like it is more for the public than for other responders, it could at least provide some interesting photo opportunities.

Why isthe fire service is the least diverse versus PD & EMS? This is an interesting question. I think with EMS there are a few factors. First like the PD & PD of old (althought this is changing somewhat) it is a low paying and unpopular job. What lead the Irish to PD & FD is likely leading lots of minorities to EMS. The fact that as a service, EMS is relatively young, means that it doesn't have enough tradition to for too much negative traditionalism yet. The police I think may have become more diverse as an off shoot from the military desegragating in the early 1950's. For a long time every generation had it's war and many returning veterans took civil service tests, and had veterans housing, this may have made the initial steps towards where law enforcement is now in this regard. With both of these services every minority member is the best recruiting tool they have. Children seeing a responder who looks like them know that that job is a possibility. As they get older and start considering careers I think this is also a factor. In a way in order to attract more minorities one must already have alot of minorities. One "token poster child" on a recruitment add doesn't work nearly as well as ten guys out working in the field. Given a test system like that, and since we rarely know each others scores, can anyone blame a firefighter from always wondering if that guy next to him really passed the test, and really is able to do the job? As openminded as we all try to be, I can't blame anyone for thinking that. I think that all the misguided attempts at diversification have lead a great many of us to be warry of minority hires. There is and likely will be for some time the perseption that they somehow were handed the job on a silver platter. A recent test & hiring situation in my area which was well known due to media coverage featured a written test where the passing score was lowered 10 points, because the HR director said that with too high a passing score they wouldn't get the minority candidates they desired. So basically we have a guy in city management who just said publicly that minoritys can't pass a regular test, but noone called him a racist.

It's not the diversity that is BS, it is the way that diversity is misused to mask various political agendas. As for trying to instill a love of the job into youth, until last year I was one of the Advisors with a local Explorer Post. Of the numerous Explorers that came and went through our post in the 10 years I was there, I only ever saw a handful move on to any Emergency Service. Oddly enough, those that became EMT's were all white, those that went on to Firefighting were mostly from poorer neighborhoods and/or from minority groups. Many of them did not remain active in the departments they joined. I will be the first to say that a big part of that was geography. I can not understand why the fire department gets criticized for failing to recruit anyone. In the case of career departments, it is usually the HR department who is in charge of testing and establishing the list, and only then does the fire department get a list to choose from. Why don't we ever hear about how racist the HR directors are? In the case of volunteer departments, they are limited by geography. It is essential that a volunteer live in or close to the district, because of response times. So the VFD's recruit from a relatively small area. Then we get accused of not reflecting the community. In most cases I have seen, we loose more members that live far away than we do members who live close by. I also think that a targeted recruitment plan will bring with it largely undeserved resentment of the applicants that come in. True or false, right or wrong any group like this will be labled them and the rest of the department will become us. There will be the perception that somehow things were manipulated to get them the position. I do not know the answer to this question but I do not think that any fire department can be blamed simply because their membership does not meet some politicians master demographic plan.

This has been a pet peeve of mine for some time now. Why is it we will donate equipment to another country and then sit back and feel all warm and fuzzy about ourselves and how we helped the poor, while there are departments that are in many cases much more deserving of our donations right here in the USA. I hope this latest effort gets off to a good start, I would love to help any way I can. Now some of the efforts to do this in the past were not administered as well as they could have been. I have tried to donate twice to groups that would get the materials to US Fire Departments. Once we boxed up several sets of Turnout Gear that we were no longer using. They were older but in good repair and didn't fit any current member. I contacted one charity that told me to wait and they would contact me when they were going to have a truck in the state. After a year sitting in the attic, that gear ended up in the dumpster. A second time I tried to donate an Engine. I did get a call back and was told the engine would be much appreciated, all my department had to do was hire a flatbed hauler at our expense and have it delivered to the charity in question. We ended up selling it to a local collector, who is letting it rot away in a parking lot in the next town. There obviously needs to be a better method to get the needed equipment to the departments in question. And there needs to be a way to convince departments with surplus stuff, that it is better to give it away than to sell it.

The lack of parity for EMS has more to do with time than anything else. EMS is a relatively new service. EMT as a title only goes back to 1978 nationally, The First Paramedic programs were the early 1970's. Where as Law Enforcement goes back almost as far as humans forming into towns and villages. Fire Protection soon followed. I heard a quote attributed to former NYC Mayor Ed Koch that listed the three Emergency Services as Police, Fire & Sanitation, and went on to explain how EMS was not an Emergency Service. Thankfully this attitude is changing, but I for one do not think it will be a quick change. In a way I think that taking badges away from those EMS agencies that choose to use them is moving backwards from the parity goal. Like I said before if we try to start deciding who gets to be part of what tradition we are drawing lines in the sand that will ultimately work against us. If you have someone who is using the badge impropperly, deal with the individual, not the service or agency. In that reguard, we must police ourselves. I can tell you however that most people that extend courtesy to badges and are not part of an Emergency Service never read what the badge says. They lump all badges in together. So taking badges away from EMS will not reflect any better or worse on all the other services that wear badges.

Quint, Quad & Tripple Combination Pumper all have their roots in the same set of functions. In the early days of hand drawn and later horse drawn apparatus, most had single functions. The Pumper was just a pump, and the hose wagon brought the Hose. Storage tanks didn't come about until the Chemical Engines. As motorization began and weight was less of a problem, these functions got combined. A Tripple Combination Pumper has a Pump, Carries Hose, And has a Booster Tank. A Quad adds Ground Ladders into the mix. A Quint adds an Aerial Ladder as the 5th function. I was once given a glossary of Firefighting terms that I was told were for a fire dispatch class. I saw Tripple Combination Pumper on the list but had never heard the term. I asked a senior member of my department what it was and he laughed at me and told me we had three of them sitting downstairs. The term is so out of date and out of use that I hadn't realized that almost every Fire Engine made is actually a Tripple Combination Pumper.

There is a HUGE difference between being permitted (or even encouraged) to respond as a Volunteer Firefighter during working hours, and being told that as part of your job you will now be assuming duties that are not normally considered part of your job and were until recently part of someone else's job. The fact of the matter is that there are places that make combined systems work but those are places that combine fire with police or EMS and generally work towards a unified public safety department. That is completely different than splitting up a firefighting crew to mow laws at different locations and then expect them to come together in a timely manner when there is a fire call. The Mayor in question clearly has no concept of public safety and what it entails to run a fire department or what it entails to be a firefighter.

I remember years ago getting a teletype a few days after Halloween warning of something similar. I didn't see the news footage so I don't know if it was the same thing, but it was warning about something that would look innocent and turn out to be what I think they were calling a Bleach Bomb. I don't know of any local incidnets and I never heard more about them until this post, I actually thought it might have been an urban myth.

Very strange ending, I did not remember that whole fade to black thing, but it certainly is plausible. I still don't think that this ending holds a candle to St. Elsewhere's bizzare ending, which was kind of coppied with a comedic twist on the end of Newhart.

That's great that he was able to turn things around and find a career that he became successful in. I know there was a program in Connecticut that was seaking to teach EMT for free to inner city students, with the goal of employment at a local service. My department is a little different in that as one of several districts that accepts volunteers in one city, historically our membership base has come from within or very close to our district, although this is changing. For an agency that started out as and in many ways remains a neighborhood organization, there is often nothing to attract people from outside the neighborhood and often little interest in actively recruiting ouside the neighborhood. I generally disagree with targeting specific groups in recruiting, because I think that, well intentioned as it may be, it ends up alienating the groups you didn't target. I would rather see a program that is welcoming to everyone without making a point out of any specific group or feature. The end goal is after all to bring people into what we all call a brotherhood. If the existing membership perceives that someone was fast tracked due to special considerations little if any sense of brotherhood will exist.

Very interesting set of questions, why so many "No Longer Applicable" questions? Did something change? When I see things like this, I always wonder what the ultimate goal is. The questions seem to run in several different directions, and I know I shouldn't be, but I am more than a little suspicious about that. Maybe there is not specific goal for a story, until the results come in. But I for one would respond better to a smaller targeted series of questions, if I knew what the story was going to focus on. Department demographics have very little to do with what size supply line you use.

The idea of FAST or RIT certification is very interesting. However the potential to be mishandled is great. Last week I too the CT fire Academy's Advanced RIT class which is only 1 day but builds upon the skills covered in the initial 2 day RIT class. But for most Chief's to agree to send you to a 3 day class will involve costs either in manpower, payroll or both. If you added into this the 2 day Firefighter Safety & Survival (which is all about self rescue) and the new 1 day Calling the Mayday class (which in my opinion should be the pre-req for the whole set) you are up to 6 days. I agree that there should be a certification, but it needs to be from a state agency, not a local AHJ, simply because of how important this skill set is. I also think that there needs to be refresher training. You should not be able to get certified once and thankfully never have to be activated on scene, then 10 years down the road still be RIT certified. These are skills that are rarely used, and training is even more important than it is with our basic skills that we use more often.