CTFF

I think you've got me wrong Cogs, I have no problems working with anyone when the core functions of the fire service ( protection of life and property) come first. For example you stated "For the volunteers that may mean things like more oversight, higher, standardized and more stringent training and response standards" I think all of these lead to a better service for the public. On the career side your example was "cross staffing" and I guess you mean rigs? I don't see hoping rigs as a benefit to the public, staffing, equipping and dispatching the appropriate rig to a call benefits the public. I very much agree with Dinosaur's last post.

So it's the volunteer way or the highway as I understand it, right?

if you'd like to waste an hour and forty-eight minuets of your life you can watch the meeting from last night here: http://cityofstamford.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=854

While layoffs make the news we need to keep in mind many cities are not filling positions when guys are leaving the job.

Because The brown plan has not been reviewed to the same level that the mayor's plan has been, we get people opposed to it throwing out hypothetical numbers on staffing. Tomorrow nght will be telling, does the Mayor produce the numbers as described in the brown plan? Will the numbers be accurate?

Cogs, What is the cost of 200 volunteers vs the cost of 20 career firefighters? gear? training? insurance? those 20 career firefighters are also going to stay 20+ years on the job. How long does the average volunteer stay active? I'm sure if we break down 20 career firefighters are the better bang for your buck over the course of their career. I love the overstaffed or stretched to thin angle the "Brown" plan detractors have. The answer is neither. The resources of SFRD will be spread out, SFRD will be doing more for the residents dollar.

But if the four departments are becoming one wouldn't it make sense to continue down the path the belltown has? You could save the taxpayers from stipends and tax breaks. It's seems to me you've pushed for some type compensation for a bit now, to say otherwise is flat out lying. I also agree that to come up with a better solution there needs to be cooperation from all sides. I don't see that happening from the Mayor or those pushing hard for his plan because they have something personal to gain from this.

Cogs, I recently read a story recently in the Advocate that Belltown has a waiting list for volunteers. Belltown has done this without incentives, right? I have a tough time understanding why incentives are needed when one dept in Stamford excels without them.

The long ridge guys are going to be paid in the area of 80k, the costs keep climbing...

Typically cities plan for the type of move you are contemplating. That is to get residents points you must be a resident of that city for 6-12 months prior to application period.

The article was written by Byron Gray according to the link you posted.

Google for it, .ppt is the file extension, you be amazed is what out there for free.

So Someone has to say it. If you've gone defensive why are firefighters in the collapse zone?

No no, I've been following. I agree we need to integrate the sectors, we disagree on how it should be done at a staffing level. I'm glad we agree that hoping for a volunteer response isn't acceptable.

So hiring in the area of 50 firefighters and hoping for a volunteer response is the way to go?

I'm not really sure the Mayor is a "best option" guy and I'll point out Bobby V as my prime example. The mayor can't even get his plan out of the Public Health and Safety Committee of the BOR. The SFRD plan isn't even there, though the members are aware of it and have asked the city for the cost of it as it is written. I don't think we are close to change in the fire service in Stamford. I've said for a bit now the city needs to get everyone in the room to discuss and devise a plan. Present that plan as a unified fire service and move on. This Mayor won't do that. I won't get into the scheduling debate of our hypothetical fire service again but I do have to ask one question. If paid firefighters can be stationed 24/7/365 with out an increase in cost or much lower then the Mayor's plan, why remove them at night? Why not get more equipment out the door closer to the fire with full crews? Isn't that in the best interest of the public?

When volunteers are at a station, don't have a full crew and are qualified to ride out I would expect them to do so. My issues with preventing POV response is to ensure accountability, I believe it would be very easy to not know who is on scene. This is a safety issue in my mind. I'm sure there are systems out their that address this issue I'm not aware of. No, I won't give up the tool I carried off the rig. I may need it later and you shouldn't ask for it. Grab one of the rig as you head in, it's a great habit. We need to reduce the amount we separate ourselves if we are trying to build one fire dept. again this is all hypothetical, the powers that be at 888 don't want one FD.

For the most part I think only the people who have advised the mayor and the Mayor himself are way outside the lines in beliefs on how the fire service should run. Even though your proposed 12 hour tour seems very generous in terms of promotions and avoiding layoffs, I still see it as a logistical nightmare. SFRD does not work 12 hour tours now, we don't have shifts that start or end 7. If career staffing city wide can be achieved ( under the proposed SFRD plan) why not keep the same schedule? Staffing would simply increase at night when the the volunteers would man other rigs and be dispatched under a closest unit response? Of course any time the volunteers have the man power to staff a rig it gets updated into the cad. This way there is a minimum guaranteed response at all times and the staffing increases in the city as volunteers are available.

Of course this is hypothetical. I don't think I have anything to offer on the consolidation of the volunteers into one division or battalion. I think this is something best left to the volunteer dept's alone. I'm still opposed to day staffing. I think it is a logistical nightmare. I agree the on duty DC ( currently Unit 4) should be the IC in a new system. Training will be handled by the SFRD training division. Are you saying one fire commission? I agree with that. I agree to minimum staffing to get a rig out the door. With that I think we'll need to stop POV responses, though Chiefs would still be able to respond. Standardized equipment is the way to go. Though I'm not sure who would own new fire apparatus (I would think the city) so I'm not sure allowing extra equipment to be added is the way to go. Though I'm not sure about the rest of your proposal.

Cogs, when you say "Compromise by all", what compromises do see the volunteers and VFD's making under your plan? P.S. I'm all for Standardized training, testing and an integrated command structure.

Cogs where have you been? The thread has been quite without you. I'm fairly certain that the Chief of Greenwich was invited to speak by a member of the BOR. It's quite typical of the government to look to the local area and see what is being done. Also are you saying the Greenwich and Danbury aren't working combination systems? Care to explain where each Dept is not integrated and are unsuccessful?

The Democrats at best need 7 republicans to cross party lines to break a filibuster. In the grand scheme of things a 50-50 vote is not really close.

I recently had the opportunity to do a few days of swift water training, I'll try to pass on a little of what I learned. The first I learned is a brand new respect for moving water. the NFPA defines "swift water" as water moving faster then 1 knot. Water rescue is the technical skill we kill the most rescuers doing (drilling including). The proper equipment is a must ( cold water suits are not swift water suits). You can be tied off but need a life vest that allows you to free yourself from the line quickly and easily. http://store.mpgear.com/images/products/display/extrasportswiftwaterfury_red.jpg notice the red ball on the above picture? that ball allows you to slip free from the rope you are tied to. ask away on this topic, today is the perfect day to discuss it.

I love when a non IAFF member explains what the IAFF is all about. Can you explain where you've acquired this knowledge? I've been around the IAFF almost all my life and have yet to hear a let's jump into the paramedic game to increase the union base and benefits. While I'm not doubting you've heard people say this, I doubt their feelings on the issue accurately reflect the position of the IAFF as an organization.

I think the mayor is saying nothing would happen for two years I'd charter change is the method and 7/1/12 is the date for his plan.