helicopper

I'm going to have to see if I can find the studies but wasn't one of them done in Houston? That certainly qualifies as a city. I'm sure the response times you describe are accurate but more important they're appropriate. The "sick" and the "EDP" aren't going to suffer by waiting 10 minutes for their ride to the hospital.

My comment isn't directed at Pat or his dog. I think its commendable that he is willing and able to do it for Brewster. I just think Brewster needs to decide what it wants, needs, and is willing to spend. Having a part-time specialty department is a lot like having a hospital with no emergency room. What's the point?

How did I know that YOU would have a comment!!!! INIT915, thanks for posting those statutes. I was thinking much the same thing! Could be a nasty can of worms that gets opened!

I'll be the first to agree that making them wait on the side of the road while writing not just them but another motorist tickets sounds unreasonable. BUT, there are three sides to every story - the cops, the civilians, and the truth. We don't know what happened on the side of that road and the media coverage only presents one perspective. People do and say the most unbelievable things to get out of tickets so before condemning the cop and calling for his termination let's get the whole story. Maybe there's more to it!?!?!?

Another part-time job trying to be a full-service department. Isn't Brewster the village that did away with their PD in the 70's? Now they've resurrecting it and are adding specialty services? Next they'll have to add detectives for the narcotics investigations that the new K-9 will be involved with. Then it will be something else and they'll still pack up and go home at midnight. Wasn't the "PD" just supposed to be a few "constables" to deal with quality of life issues? Boy how that changed!

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=28869

Without the training and experience that a police officer receives prior to conducting vehicle stops and without the appropriate PPE (kevlar, firearm, etc.) I would strongly discourage anyone from taking any kind of direct action in any vehicle (emergency or otherwise). You have no idea what is going on, you have no idea what the person is/was doing/thinking, what their mental state is, etc. Maybe that car was just carjacked from the gas station after an armed robbery and that's why the nozzle is still stuck in the fuel tank. Without knowing, the risk to you is too great! Be a good witness, keep following and reporting, and if it gets unsafe just let them go. I'm glad the situation with the fire chief stopping the rolling domestic dispute worked out well but what if the irate combatant gets out of the vehicle and challenges you? What are you going to do then? You've put yourself in a bad situation. The dispatcher or agency that instructed the chief to make the stop took on an enormous liability too. I can't imagine telling someone to do something for which they are neither trained or equipped. Years ago while working as a paramedic I came upon the scene of a violent felony. I was not about to challenge an armed suspect so I merely called it in and followed the suspect vehicle at a safe distance reporting his location until he could be stopped by the PD. Even now, unless there were very extenuating circumstances, I'd rather be a good witness than a dead hero! As for unmarked vehicles, there is no prohibition in NYS against their use and if you choose to ignore one you'll find out is real soon enough - like when the back-up units and helicopter arrive! If you choose not to stop for one and continue driving at a normal speed while calling 911 on your cell phone you'll probably be fine. If you keep driving like a jerk and try to evade or elude the unmarked car, you're probably going to get a fistfull of tickets and/or matching silver bracelets. It was the police spokesperson that used the terminology "initiated a traffic stop". Nothing in any statutes (that I'm aware of) in NYS authorizes anyone other than the police or certain peace officers to stop vehicles or "initiate traffic stops". I can see all sorts of legal issues with it so better to be safe than sorry.

I have to agree with you! The "conference room" is what's lacking in most command vehicles that are well suited to support communications (i.e. multiple dispatch consoles, radios, etc.) but have no space for the incident commanders and agency representatives to get together. This vehicle is very well designed and truly oriented to serving the command function. Good luck with it.

Empress is contracted with the City of Mt. Vernon as the third service EMS provider. Their paychecks don't say "City of Mt. Vernon" but they are the city's 911 provider. They work side by side with the PD and FD so I don't get your point. They don't have a right to an opinion because they're not paid by the City? That's pretty weak. In the first line you say that the remark was directed at another member and in the last you say not to be insulted or offended - you can't have it both ways. As has been stated by numerous members in this thread, the discussion about the MVFD is that of public information. It is not agency bashing nor is it revealing privileged information. From where I sit, you have an ax to grind with another EMTBravo member and this thread is intended to do nothing more than incite a problem. My recommendation is to close this thread as it is counterproductive.

Domenick, I appreciate your perspective. I don't currently live or work in Mt. Vernon but I did work there and family and I lived there for years. I still have friends and family living or working there too. I don't know if that entitles me to express an opinion in your eyes but here goes. It is a travesty that the police and fire departments in Mt. Vernon are so horribly understaffed and ill-equipped. MV is one of the most densely populated jurisdictions in the State and they should have all the equipment and personnel they need to do the job right. Will I stand with the PD or FD if they seek support in fighting this pathetic treatment? You bet your a$$ I will and I hope countless other public safety people will stand shoulder to shoulder with them too! I'm not picking on the dedicated professionals working hard in spite of the political winds that blow through the City. I am picking on the political hacks who have no business holding public office (elected or appointed). If you still think I'm picking on Mt. Vernon, I'll try to be more equal opportunity: I think it is a joke that there are fire departments out there staffing apparatus with only one person and I think it is equally absurd that there are other departments who can't fill all the seats on their apparatus with qualified firefighters on a drill night let alone at 1 PM or 1 AM. Mt. Vernon is taking it on the chin right now in the mainstream media not just here. To the dedicated men and women of the City's services I say keep the faith and keep fighting the fight! Sooner or later there will be enough momentum to effect change! Who's to say that this forum won't help contribute to that momentum. Senseless bashing is inexcusable but pointing out severe deficiencies in the hopes that improvements will be made is a completely different thing. It doesn't matter if the issues are raised from Texas or Tibet if the intent is to see things change for the better. And you're also right, there are plenty of places with problems and I'm sure that many of them will be discussed here in time. It isn't personal, it isn't bashing, it's NEWS! And we're all entitled to discuss it here. Stay safe and keep smiling! Chris

I don't know if that's accurate. NYPD cars used to be green many many moons ago. The only place that I know regulates police car colors is California where the black and white paint scheme is a state requirement - as is certain lighting configurations. To my knowledge the paint schemes in Westchester County have always been at the whim (or $$$) of the department.

As the newspaper delivery kid said, "I want my two dollars"!

How is it that you KNOW you didn't see any plainclothes officers? If they were there and doing their job you wouldn't see them.

I thought the scrap price for apparatus was a T-shirt?

Whatever the cause, I hope he gets the help he needs cause something is definitely wrong.

I would actually have given someone (anyone - not just the probie MV FF's in this story) the benefit of the doubt if it was an arrest or two for non-violent offenses that could be attributed to "youthful indiscretion" but when you've got a pattern of criminal conduct including violent offenses such as possession of a (stolen) firearm, resisting arrest, etc. you start to lose me. If it was an arrest for DWI or even drugs while a teen or young adult, that could be forgiven. Even those already on the job occassionally make this kind of mistake. But it is just that: a mistake. These records hardly represent the kind of person that I would want coming into my home to help me.

Great points! So, we keep bringing it up but the problem remains... Maybe we're not doing a good enough job of training newbies or retraining oldies?

One perspective on all these apparatus accidents (the one's where two collided) is that if they BOTH stopped at the intersection, there wouldn't have been a collision. The aviation industry doesn't look so much at the blame or fault but rather the chain of events that contributed to the accident. Take one link out of the chain and the accident is prevented. All we need are emergency responders to start looking at things the same way. What can I do to make this operation safer? Am I doing something unsafe/stupid/etc.? If we start behaving this way, we'll slowly but surely start changing those 200 years of impeded progress!

With that logic every ambulance call would be treated as a cardiac arrest and every police call treated as a crime in progress. We don't send fire and EMS to every automobile accident because there might be an injury, do we? It is simple - we have to do a risk analysis on EVERY call and determine what the appropriate response is. We don't need to run "hot' to everything just because it might be something. There's a lot of research out there that demonstrates how unnecessary and potentially dangerous it is to run hot to everything. That's why we have things like EMD, tiered responses, response codes, etc. In fact, the reality is that response times are not that much different (at least for EMS) responding without lights and sirens vs. responding with them.

The MVFD is obviously operating some ladder. I saw them responding to a job early this morning but couldn't tell you which (or whose) truck it was.

Lots of orange is right. I could see it from Harrison! This is what it looked like from the air (regular color and with thermal imaging). With the thermal imaging the embers make it look like a volcano.

All the comments about the cause of this accident and other discussions have been moved to the appropriate thread in the Rockland forum. This is the photography forum and discussion here should be limited to the photography. If you want to discuss tactics or other subjects, this is not the thread for it! Please use this link to access the discussion about the accident and please read the note from Moose concerning forum etiquette and propriety before posting. http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=28646 If the discussion strays off topic, future posts will be deleted and this thread closed. Thank you for your cooperation.

If I worked on an artillery range I'd want armor too!!!

Why? If you're joining a rescue team (be it swift water, wildland, or even technical) why is the minimum standard for acceptance firefighter 1? Don't police officers, paramedics/EMT's, engineers, mechanics, physicians, etc. all bring something to the table that would be a benefit to the team? This seems to be a "tradition" for a lot of courses but I don't understand why it is necessary - unless of course you're going to be on a fire rescue company!

That's true, Moose. I wasn't trying to diminish the role of the FD in search and rescue but - correct me if I'm wrong - to be a member of a fire department rescue company you first need to be a firefighter, don't you? Search and Rescue Teams may be more multidisciplinary and have members from other services/agencies/etc. I know that the Westchester County Technical Rescue Team has members from fire, police, EMS and possibly utilities/public works entities so it's not limited to just fire.