helicopper

I don't think anyone believes that it would be easy or that there wouldn't be a multitude of challenges to work out. It is, however, probably the best option for standardizing the fire response across lower Westchester County. Some municipalities would undoubtedly have to kick in a bit more than they are now and union issues would definitely need to be worked out but it could be done. Sadly the home rule issue is a huge issue not just about consolidation but a great many things.

Like any database, it will only show new stuff if it is updated. Periodic database updates for GPS to include new streets, etc. are not unusual nor is it uncommon to charge for it. I feel your pain, aviation databases have to be updated every 56 days!

CNN Reporting Suspect Arrested in Fatal Bank Bombing FoxNEWS Report on Arrest of Bombing Suspect

According to some old dinosaurs under circumstances like this unions would pass the hat and everyone would kick in - especially those threatened by layoffs - to create an incentive package for potential retirees. A few thousand dollars and whatever incentives the municipality might come up with might make it a sweet enough deal for people to take their retirement. Unfortunately I don't see the municipalities kicking in anything as a retirement incentive no matter how smart it may be in the long run. And as Barry said, the state is worse off than the locals are this time around. This does just plain suck!

And with the dreary forecast for the State budget, it is unlikely that aid is going to improve, or even remain the same next year so this may unfortunately expand to include many more municipalities.

I had the desk entirely too often before I wrangled my way off of it. If I received a medical call that warranted pre-arrival instructions I forwarded to 60-Control. I'm not an EMD, our department is not EMD, and I wasn't willing to speculate on the right instructions. You and I have the same medical training unrelated to the PD and I still wouldn't be willing to do it. I would imagine that you could just hit the right button to forward the call to 60 where they can EMD it for you, right? As a one man band, I don't know how you'd be able to dispatch three services, give pre-arrival instructions, and answer all the other radio calls/phones even on a good day anyway. If all goes well I imagine that the "any help I can give" would be better than none at all but in the event of a negative outcome I think the liability would be significant. Do what ya gotta do, my friend, just CYA!!!!

"Improvising" puts an enormous liability on both you and your agency. There is no good samaritan protection when you're performing skills for which you are not trained and for which there is a national standard especially when operating as part of an emergency service agency. [mod hat on/] Enough with the back and forth about Tarrytown. Nobody anywhere in this thread suggested that Tarrytown change who dispatches it's fire/EMS and that concept seems to have stolen this thread. Comments were made about 60-Control, varying opinions discussed, and generally we've agreed to disagree. So, the horse is dead - stop beating it! Also, be mindful that profanity on this site is prohibited and using $$ or ** to change letters to get past the filters is also a violation. Let's try to keep it professional and discuss things without personal attacks or agency bashing. Thanks! [mod hat off/]

Wishful thinking!

This thread is now closed. The fact that HVP has their ALS authority back has been reported and commented. Since that time, the thread has gone off on negative tangents. If anyone wants to start a generic, non agency specific discussion about the problems associated with the transport side of EMS or long-distance responses to fulfill contracts, feel free to do so. Agency bashing will not be permitted there either. RNMedic08/Medic442, will we EMTBravo'ers be invited to the wedding?

JEMS Article on Response Times and Disparity Response Times: Myths, Measures, and Management Columbia University Report on Response Times Another report on response times PubMed study on "vertical" response times in EMS Eight minutes or less: does it matter? Hope these help.

All due respect but you've cast some pretty big generalizations at 60-Control. To be fair, and objective, you may like your dispatch set-up but it doesn't mean it is better than another. All the errors that you reference have (can and probably will continue to) happen not necessarily because of dispatcher error but because of caller error. You even point that out. Very often when receiving a call from someone reporting an incident on a highway system they don't tell us that it is on an exit ramp or give us the incorrect direction. It isn't until the first units arrive on scene that the real location and conditions are learned so your assertion that this is a failure of 60-Control is unfair. Trouble spots, frequent callers, and other pertinent data can all be flagged by a CAD system. Relying on the personal knowledge of a particular dispatcher eliminates any hope of standardization or consistency. What happens when the FNG gets assigned to the desk for the night? Is he or she going to be as good as the crusty ol' veteran that knows the parents of the 911 caller and their NYSID numbers by heart as well as where the knife is kept in the living room? Come on! Many PD dispatchers make excellent fire and EMS dispatchers but they are first and foremost police officers and/or dispatchers. When the proverbial fan is being hit, the police officer staffing the desk is inundated with other tasks and responsibilities. Their stress level increases and their performance may suffer for it (studies show that stress decreases performance in almost every field). Wouldn't you rather be speaking to a calm, professional communicator removed from the stress of the local situation who is 100% focused on you and your messages? Centralized communications offer an array of benefits: * EMD * Consistency and standardization * Good situational awareness (beyond the borders of a single jurisdiction - especially useful in mutual aid situations) * Resource management would be improved by centralized dispatch centers for all emergency services * Better accountability * Cost savings - if we didn't have to staff nearly 100 different locations 24/7/365. I could go on but you get the point. A competent dispatcher doesn't have to have personal knowledge of a building or neighborhood to be effective. PS - I don't work at 60-Control nor are any of my comments directed at Tarrytown PD. They are general observations from someone that has worked on both sides of the radio.

Exactly right. They still receive the benefit of an impartial trial but under military rules which allow far less of the theatrics and nonsense allowed under the civil system!

Interesting perspective. I believe they are more appropriately held as enemy combatants under military rules than our civil laws. It is also necessary to treat terrorism as a war crime or crime against humanity. Our civil laws mean nothing to people who believe we are all infidels anyway. Just like other conflicts, you can't use traditional tactics in guerilla warfare.

I'm less concerned about the name they're using than the fact that they're tying up two units for calls that they're contracted to cover themselves (theirs and an ALS unit to assist). Hopefully the affected agencies are monitoring this and will take appropriate action before their own calls start going uncovered.

I think that is a matter of interpretation. My interpretation is that, using this particular fire as an example, people are discussing the benefits of automatic mutual aid and standard responses that cross district lines to enhance the response. That is in no way negative or monday morning quarterbacking. There are plenty of threads on this site that compliment responders but if all we do is pat each other on the back without discussing how to we can do things better next time will we ever improve? This site is so mild compared to some of the rant-a-thons and bash-fests that go on in other forums, I really don't understand the criticism. As for effecting change, it isn't a bad thing for homeowners to read our discussions and learn what the issues are and how the powers to be are trying to solve them. At least it makes them an educated consumer! I also think that many of us are trying to effect change by discussing problems and ideas that will correct them. With 8000 members including current and future officers, there are many creative ideas being discussed. Some of them may have value and may be adopted by people for use in their own departments. I don't think that's a bad thing. Incidents generally stimulate discussion. This spawns a great many debates, discussions, and learning opportunities. To always consider that criticism is to always see the glass as half empty. Another $.02

So would the chief's, the volunteers, the commissioners, the firefighters... Does that mean we shouldn't discuss the issue? If the union's interests are represented it could work. Ultimately, it could be a benefit even to the unions. But your comment leads me to ask: who's driving this bus? The unions? The volunteers? The chiefs/commissioners? Shouldn't we all be striving for the same thing? Ultimately our constituents (the taxpayers) have the right to expect the best service possible at the most reasonable cost possible. Who's to say that's not a combination department? (Mind you I don't know that it is, I just think its a valid alternative to what we've got now). On the subject of consolidating/regionalizing, has the PACE study on the consolidation of departments in Westchester been completed? If so, does any one know what it found?

Why not create two new types of affiliation: ARMED FORCES (as above Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard) and OTHER FEDERAL UNIFORMED SERVICES for all the rest? As for rank how about ENLISTED and COMMISSIONED OFFICER? Keeping it simple and allowing the member to further describe themselves overcomes the programming nightmare of having all those different ranks/titles/agencies/etc. to worry about. Of course you could make it even simpler with a single title for all of them: UNDERPAID!!!! Gotta love our federal pay scales!

It is most definitely at least a county level issue, it is probably a statewide issue but at least (despite those advocating the elimination of a county government) county's are well suited geographically to resolve the problem. This does not mean that the County of Westchester (or the County of Putnam/Dutchess/Rockland/Orange/Nassau/Wherever you choose to apply this problem) has to or should be the leader of the new department but it can and should be the one to facilitate the discussion between the district(s) involved and try to help people overcome these petty little issues that are holding us back from progressing. You would not have to immediately change who receives the taxes; as someone else said just establish an intermunicipal agreement between the parties and start dual responses. Nobody has to give anything up, it merely enhances the response. If it is going to be a surround and drown operation, they're probably going to be called for mutual aid anyway. A county department would probably alleviate many of the problems you point out. Departments with staffing issues could draw from a much larger membership pool, wouldn't have to be totally self-sufficient (i.e. no truck company = no problem, another "station" sends the truck), could draw from a much larger cadre if instructors to conduct training, etc. Call volume isn't going to change. Resource management is what changes. So, maybe more "stations" are involved in a response but they'd be responding with specified resources as decided by the chiefs/line officers/management - the same way it is done now in a district. This could become something akin to the structure in Maryland where the combination departments have both career and volunteer staff working together to insure a timely response. So long as all the personnel are properly trained and equipped, who cares if the apparatus responds with 3 paid FF or 2 paid and 1 volunteer? This could be a beneficial compromise to all the departments that are suffering in today's economy. It could also help FF's develop real experience by enabling them to go from a very quiet area to a more busy area for shifts or assignments. Lots of great ideas can come from this concept, if people are willing to put aside the territorialism and egos to discuss it.

Take a few minutes and read this story about a pilot severely burned in a plane crash who eventually returns to the cockpit and advances his career. The Logan Flood Story A truly amazing man and example of perseverence!

This is the same problem as me being two blocks from a robbery in progress but not knowing about it because of different radio frequencies or there being 3-4 cops within a few blocks of a job who can't go because it's not in their jurisdiction. Solid information MRK303! At some point logic is going to have to be brought into play here. Does it make sense to build, equip, and staff an entirely new firehouse when there is an existing one just a few miles down the road? Maybe, most likely NOT. Develop a comprehensive closest unit response policy and give it a try. If, after a few years, it proves to be ineffective, then come back and float the idea of a new firehouse.

It makes a lot of sense that it doesn't have a bathroom. As Barry pointed out, the command post isn't where you want people parading through to go to the bathroom. This is where actually doing ICS instead of merely paying it lip service comes in to play. If it is a real job and you'll be there for a while, Logistics either identifies bathrooms nearby or requests port-a-potties to the scene for the command staff and everyone else. You also don't want to lose a vehicle as valuable as that to plumbing problems!

I think he meant in DC. They've already been tarred and feathered here!

Great discussions... let's keep it going! Here's an update from the Maryland incident... http://wjz.com/local/medevac.lawmakers.system.2.878187.html Excerpt: More on HEMS safety... http://ihst.org/images/stories/documents/f...entoct08web.pdf

DING! You win the prize!!! It wasn't that the SO provided substandard service but rather that the Village couldn't control it! Why do you think there are still so many little PD's around instead of merging to provide the comprehensive kind of services/department that we would all benefit from. The bottom line is they still have to rely on the services of the State Police and Sheriff. They are not 24 hours and they only have a handful of cops - what are they up to? About 10?

Date: 12/06/08 Time: 0055 Location: Original location SBP southbound in area of WMC (T/Mt Pleasant) Frequency: Numerous Units Operating: Westchester County PD, NY State Police, Greenburgh PD, Irvington PD, Dobbs Ferry PD, Ardsley PD, Elmsford PD, White Plains PD, Yonkers PD Description Of Incident: Attempted car stop on Sprain, vehicle fled and exited at Route 100B. Pursuit terminated when visual contact lost toward Route 9A. A few minutes later other agencies initiated a pursuit of the same vehicle on Route 9A with the same result. Vehicle encountered and pursued at least 2-3 more times (West Hartsdale Ave/Route 9A/NYS Thruway/Tuckahoe Rd/Saw Mill) before being lost for good around SMRP/Rumsey Road area in Yonkers. At times vehicle was traveling at high rate of speed with lights off. Writer: Chris192