helicopper

My vote would be an alcohol based liquid as well. They burn pretty hot and leave very little residue, probably hot enough to cause second and third (?) degree burns.

I don't think the story tarnished the image of all volunteer firefighters. This individual was criticized for using his public position as assistant fire chief to advance his private enterprise and for his business practices. It was not a reflection on the volunteer fire service as a whole.

This is NOT a paid/volunteer issue. Yes, there are people with various substance abuse problems/issues in every walk of life and yes people make mistakes every day BUT stealing a vehicle from your agency and driving it with a BAC of .19 is far more than an oops I had a couple but drove home anyway. Two wrongs don't make it right anyway.

Every presidential or other Secret Service detail that I've seen had a regular ambulance included in it. The black unmarked vehicles are all various Secret Service vehicles but I'm not aware of a single one being an ambulance. They have a variety of functions but transport EMS isn't one of them. Now they may take an injured President, dignitary or agent to the hospital in one but I've never seen one set up as an ambulance.

Very true!

In the eyes of the OSHA and others, members are "employees" (hence the quotes) and if a volunter agency doesn't have a "hiring process" or screening/membership process they should. It is time for a change (where have I heard that lately?). Agencies, volunteeer or otherwise, need to start taking their responsibilities seriously and realize that they are an employer even if they don't pay people and they have customers who are their constituency. It is going to be hard to solicit donations or lobby for tax increases when issues like this arise.

It's a fair question - how about BOTH. As for this incident, an intoxicated "employee" stole a vehicle and crashed it. He was charged with unauthorized use and DWI. How much more Sleepy Hollow could have done to prevent this is beyond me unless a problem in the "hiring" process allowed someone into the agency who should have been identified as a problem earlier - and we'll never know that.

Nice photos, Bill. It's nice to see that he got a fitting tribute!

(grammatical mistake in the article corrected) He didn't try to do the job of a police officer and put himself in danger; he was a great witness and facilitated the arrest! Outstanding job, Jason! 5-15 years? Ya think? I'm betting 2-3 years probation after pleading guilty to a reduced charge and getting credit for time served.

Please call the White House 202-456-1111 and request that President Bush pardon Border Agents Ramos and Campean. Fax directly to the White House (2024562461) . It just takes a few minutes of your time and could make a huge difference to these border patrol agents and their families! If you are in law enforcement or have family or friends in law enforcement but you don't really care about this case, see bolded paragraph below to see how it affects us all. (not subject to copyright restrictions on reproduction/distribution)

Another option is Westchester EMS - http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=29703 Personally, I wouldn't tell them that you're just looking for a job for a year (may be a moot point if they read this thread though). They may be less inclined to take you for short term employment since they'll have to train you, insure you, equip you, etc. Good luck!

Government as we know it is failing. Not one government entity can operate within its budget, the deficits are staggering, cutbacks and layoffs are becoming the order of the day, and all are looking to the taxpayer to shoulder the expense. Businesses fail and they go out of business but the government just rolls along. Why are their any career politicians still in office? Why haven't they all been fired like the coaches/managers of all NY sports teams that haven't won a championship this year. Fail = Fired / Voted out of Office Are we holding the elected officials responsibile for their fiscal irresponsibility or are we just going to blindly re-elect them again this November? What can we do to fix this problem - remember it was a little tea party in Boston that got this whole thing started so don't say there's nothing we can do now!

What's going on Monday night at 7 PM?

Probably because of air/sea rescue being first due and the harbor units having divers available 24/7. Yes, the FD has divers but they're committed to other duties (Rescue Co, etc.). The PD simply has more readily available resources. (Not a knock on the FD at all)

The New York State Police aircraft are hoist equipped as are the NYPD and Westchester County PD. Suffolk County, Nassau County, and the Connecticut SP have hoists if you reach out to them. I don't believe that NJ SP has a hoist. Beyond that you're outta luck - the medevac ships (Lifestar, etc.) are just that medevac ships. With the exception of the NYPD (Bell 412) all the hoists are a single person proposition. That's just not going to work for 150 people. The Westchester County PD can deploy small rafts (two of them) but again that's not going to help 150 people; it might have been good for the Cessna in Yonkers though. The State Police Aviation Unit is staffed more than 9-5 but I don't know exactly what they work. With the exception of the NYPD, I'm not aware of any 24 hour coverage by aviation. That's a great point. Also consider the time it will take to hoist people - figure 3 minutes per person under optimal conditions (which they'll never be) - that's 7 1/2 hours of hoisting. You'll need MUCH more than just helicopters. True, true, true!!! Let's keep track now too - we have the Airbus yesterday, the Cessna in Yonkers. and the Cirrus off Haverstraw Bay in the summer of 2005 (?). That's THREE aircraft in the river in just 3+ years and one of them was a biggie. Think we ought to plan more?

The State Police have hoist equipped helicopters based at Stewart but the National Guard stuff is all fixed wing - except of course for transients passing through. NYC DEP PD also has a helicopter based there but it doesn't have a hoist. Initially at least they will self coordinate - it's done every day and usually works pretty well. The night of the boat accident you reference there were three of us above and we coordinated our locations and movements so we knew who was doing what to whom. The media helicopters are very good about staying out of our way to allow us to do our job while they do theirs. Later a Temporary Flight Restriction can be established if necessary but that's only for big, long-term incidents. And it was just dumb luck that we got the Coast Guard helicopter. It was in the area coincidentally on training. The nearest Coast Guard helicopters are in Atlantic City and Cape Cod; that's why the NYPD has so many assets for air/sea rescue work.

Let's see... Nobody in Westchester has the level of experience that the command staffs of the NYPD or FDNY have so we would have a more difficult time handling it but yes I think we could. Depends on what resources you're referring to. If you mean passenger ferries that can scoop up the victims and hold them in a climate controlled environment and bring them to shore 30-40-50 at a time no. If you mean personnel and apparatus, of course. Unfortunately the majority of that is useless in this situation. If the ice on the river prevents boats from getting out of the marinas (if they're even in the water) there will be a definite problem. It might require the response of the ferries from NYC - is that something any of our people would think of? Not before last night probably. Even in the summer there may be a lot of boats available but none are large enough to deal with the numbers of people this incident generated. Also the coordination of many more small boats will be more of a challenge then was the coordination of ferry boats by ferry captains yesterday. We should start preplanning RIGHT NOW for what we would do if this happened. We can't afford to wait until it does to figure out who's going to go where, who's going to bring what, who's going to do what, etc. The pre-plan wouldn't have to be just for a plane ditching. It could be used for any large river response. And the same thing should be done on the Sound too! Once the preplan is done there should be tabletop exercises REGULARLY to keep the plan fresh in everyones mind and explore contingencies, options, other issues, and workout the invariable turf issues, ego issues, and communications issues. The other problem would be who's the lead agency? If this happened north of the Tappan Zee Bridge you'd probably have every police chief, fire chief, and Indian chief on the Hudson (both Rockland and Westchester) at their shore establishing command - that's not a criticism just a simple observation. Which one IS command? Which one is going to get the resources that they're all asking for? Can the dispatch centers even handle that kind of volume of radio traffic? This would be a mult-COUNTY multi-agency operation. Unless there's a preplan, there would undoubtedly be 2-4 different responses from the different counties involved plus others. We're not well trained, equipped, or experienced in dealing with something of that size and complexity. Do they? Do you have their number? Is their plan going to help Rockland or Westchester? We can't simply say someone else has a plan for this so we'll call them. Stewart probably does have a plan for incidents on their airport (as all airports do); West Point may have a plan for things related to their operations at the river but I don't think either has a plan for an Airbus 320 ditching in the Hudson. Neither has the resources that we would need to respond either. Stewart's ANG base has no helicopters and West Point may have a few training helicopters but I don't believe that they're equipped with hoists or other rescue gear. I think we will have to first rely on local resources. I don't think so. I think they were in the left turn to etiher return to LGA or make it to Newark or Teterboro airports. When they realized they weren't going to make it the river became the best (only?) option to them. It's your fault, you asked! As for the winds - Teterboro and LGA at about the time of the accident. In a nutshell, relatively light out of the north/northwest. So he had a tailwind which is the last thing you want when you're trying to land - another reason the pilot and co-pilot are to be commended for this landing! KTEB 151951Z 33006KT 10SM CLR M06/M15 A3023 RMK AO2 SLP235 T10611150 KTEB 151851Z 34009KT 10SM CLR M06/M15 A3021 RMK AO2 SLP230 T10611150 KLGA 152051Z 36008KT 10SM SCT044 M06/M15 A3025 RMK AO2 SLP242 T10611150 53014 KLGA 151951Z 34013KT 10SM BKN035 M06/M14 A3022 RMK AO2 SLP234 T10611139 KLGA 151851Z 35009KT 210V020 10SM SCT028 SCT050 M07/M13 A3022 RMK AO2 SLP231 T10671128 KLGA 151751Z COR 33011KT 10SM SCT020 BKN032 BKN080 BKN140 M07/M12 A3021 RMK AO2 SNE30 SLP228 P0000 60000 931010 4/001 T10721117 11072 21083 53024 $

I don't think its always "successful"; most times it is "lucky". We also read about people dying in such situations - that's not monday morning QB'ing, it's simply reading the facts of the investigation. Aren't there many things you can do outside without violating training, policies, and laws/regulations by entering an IDLH environment? We're not all cross-trained just because we are all here to save lives. I'm delighted that the outcome in Mt Kisco was a positive one. I just hope everyone realizes that they were lucky they didn't succumb to the smoke and become victims themselves. Isn't every fire different? What worked for these guys in Kisco may be deadly in another fire in another building at another time, right?

Sports is the private sector and as long they have the money they'll pay big bucks. The problem as I see it is that the government tries to operate the same way. They are only now trying to be fiscally responsible and its too little too late! Barry's right too. As long as pork keeps coming home people will keep voting this people back into office. What do we do about it?

I believe that all the helicopters did respond - once it was confirmed that they weren't needed they probably landed and stood by in the metro area until released. I imagine that there was a unified command with the PD, FD, Port Authority, Coast Guard and others once the response was organized and all the players pulled together.

Touche! If the preliminary report is true that they had a bird strike in both engines - turbine engines are designed to have AIR go through them not geese or gulls - so the 20-30 pound geese probably destroyed the engine components - resulting in a total loss of power (read 200,000 pound glider). They are very lucky that the birds didn't go through the windshield disabling the flight crew or the outcome could have been much worse. I'll probably be accused of nitpicking but this plane did not crash. The flight crew ditched due to power loss. It is a controlled landing on a surface other than a runway. This is why the training standards and requirements for frequent emergency procedure training are so stringent for the airline industry. Were it not for the sensational news coverage this would barely be an event! The flight crew did do an exemplary job but it was a direct result of their experience and training! It also speaks volumes about the design of the Airbus - it can withstand landing on water (no landing gear) at 120-150 miles per hour and stay completely intact! Nice! VERY controlled incident, that's how everyone was able to walk off the plane - even with their luggage as was pointed out in one of the pictures! Aside from the flight crew, I'd have to say the ferry captains and crews were extraordinary! They responded instantly, with no request or dispatch (as mariners do) to safely and efficiently rescue the majority of passengers. Very impressive! A very VERY lucky day for everyone involved! Good job to all!

I don't think that fraud is the situation that was cited in the hypothetical situation and I don't think any of us condone falsifying records by anyone especially when it makes it that much harder for those with legitimate injuries to receive the benefits they're entitled to. Fraud and misrepresentation of injuries is exactly why our injured brothers and sisters are put through the ringer when they are injured on the job. If you know of a fraudulent claim being made against our pension system, shame on you for not reporting it!

THANK YOU, NY!!!! This should not be a political discussion or a pro / anti anyone debate. The issue at the heart of this is whether or not it is appropriate (or warranted but I think our colleague from the DC area spoke to warranted already) to use FEMA disaster relief funds for the inauguration. Can we focus on that part of the discussion, please? I for one would like to see how much money the DNC has and find out how much they're contributing to the event and it's security/emergency preparedness - much the same way an event promoter has to contribute to their events. I don't think that it is inappropriate for FEMA to be proactive (its a pleasant change) and ramp up the capabilities and resources for the DC area. Anytime a community's population triples or quadruples in a matter of hours, there is a strain on existing services. It will be interesting to see - hopefully it warms up some by Tuesday or their will be strain on EMS and hospitals down there!

Bad example. NYC gets HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars in counter-terrorism and other funds to prepare for and respond to incidents of all types within their borders. So, they may not go crying to FEMA but they sure do go to DHS and hit them up for the BIG bucks!

I can't address the issue of e-mails but the thread was not closed by the EMTBravo staff - it must have closed automatically after a period of inactivity. I'm pretty sure that as long as everyone stays professional and objective, this thread will stay open!