helicopper

It does seem to be a societal change. The prevalence of 24 hour news outlets, internet news, text alerts, etc. has created a media monster that feeds on even the most routine events. People expect and demand immediate information where it used to be reading about it the next day in the newspaper or watching a newsreel on Saturday at the movies. It's really strange. 25 years ago you'd never read an incomplete news story ending with "read more later" or "full story tomorrow". It goes right along with the instant connectivity we all "enjoy" today. Remember when you left the house and couldn't be reached until you got to work? WOW, what a change!

My previous post (above) generated some interesting conversations with some peers about the subject of preparedness in Westchester County. It was interesting to hear some of the perspectives of some of my very learned, very experienced colleagues. As a result, I am revising my statement in part. There are some incredibly dedicated individuals in this county who are lobbying for change and to increase preparedness in a meaningful, effective way. They represent agencies, serve on committees and task forces, and work above and beyond their regular duties to do this. Often, these people serve as subject matter experts not even representing an agency but rather just supporting "the cause". On the other hand, there is an institutional resistance to progress and improvement or meaningful preparedness. There are individuals, agencies, municipalities and governmental entities that are the epitome of complacency and apathy or are so afraid of change or have such fragile egos that they resist any effort to really make things better and improve our preparedness. For example, members of a department fighting a requirement that they train four hours per month. One hour a week and they think that's too much to be an effective emergency responder? Or agencies that refuse to participate in mutual aid plans? Or departments that are so territorial that they resist any effort that would require collaboration or sharing of responsibility and/or information. I guess they believe that they can do it all. Or people who still think that knowledge is power and keep everything a secret. Until the institutional resistance is overcome (either by election, legislation, or firing the obstructionists), Westchester County will never be as prepared as it should be.

Date: 02/28/09 Time: 0035 hours (approximately) Location: Chester Mall, Route 17M Frequency: multiple Units Operating: Chester PD (Town and Village), New York State Police, Orange County Sheriff, Town of Bloomingrove PD, Chester VAC Weather Conditions: Clear and Cold Description Of Incident: Man ejected from bar attempted to run down bouncer, striking him with his vehicle, and then attempted to crash his vehicle into the bar before being shot and killed by an off-duty Orange County Deputy Sheriff. Bouncer transported to hospital with possible broken leg. Reporters: Writer: Chris192 Link to Times Herald Record article

Don't assume that vacant lines will be filled. Years ago my job had a similar crisis and a hiring freeze. The next year the budget office eliminated the open lines - reducing our authorized strength dramatically - so there were no positions to fill. It stayed that way for years!

STAT-FLIGHT, LIFENET, or whatever you call your medevac where you're from is nothing more (I'll say it again for emphasis) NOTHING MORE than an air ambulance. Protocols may be slightly different but as ALSFF already said some of the differences are a bit controversial. Requesting an air ambulance when you've got a ground ambulance at a prolonged extrication does little for the patients transport time to more definitive care. In fact with prolonged extrications the helicopter crew will often shut down the aircraft adding to the transport time. A running ambulance 11 miles from the medical center will probably be just as quick as the helicopter sitting idle at the scene. I've also heard requests for medevac from areas within spitting distance from a trauma center too. Just doesn't make sense. From what I've read here, the patient in this case was BLS to the hospital anyway. Why add a $10,000 ambulance bill to the miserable day she's having? Mind you I am a strong proponent of medevac services used properly! These are general comments and not directed at any of the responders involved in the case from this thread. It is not criticism but food for thought and discussion.

Goose, while I'll be the first to agree that there's plenty of room for improvement, more training and exercise, and better organization, you said that Westchester County is not prepared for "any disaster, big or small, be it man-made, terrorist, accidental or natural". Not only do you insult yourself with that statement but you insult every other responder who works in the county. Westchester responders respond to incidents large and small every day and do so effectively. Your statement was a sweeping condemnation of everyone in the county and while I think I understand your point, you're ignoring the 99% of the work that does get done, effectively, year in and year out. You criticize the airport plan; do you know how far the airport plan has come? You can't possibly know - you were trying figure out how to color inside the lines when other members of this forum and many others were working with the Airport to make a plan that could work. Do you know how bad the drills were 10-15 years ago? Do you know how much better they are today? I'm not knocking you or your age, I'm simply pointing out that you have no idea where we are and where we've been or how hard people have worked to get us to where we are now. Without knowing the history, you're missing out on a lot. Just because the plan was tested on a weekend morning doesn't make it ineffective. Westchester County has a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan (CEMP). There have been county level and local level threat/hazard assessments. Do you really think they're going to be published for public consumption? Your statements are simply incorrect. Are we well prepared? Perhaps, perhaps not. There is always room for improvement and I will always be a staunch advocate for making those improvements. But when you make a purportedly informed statement so rife with inaccuracies and opinions veiled as fact, I am compelled to respond. When you consider where we were 10 years ago and where we are today, it is a slap in all our faces when you make the remarks you do. Preparedness is always a work in progress and we're no exception. Your issue with day to day operations is noted and should be addressed but the fact is we're more prepared than you think. As prepared as we can be or should be? That's a subject for future discussion. NJmedic, thanks for bringing up SurveyMonkey. That's a great idea.

This is a small sampling of the management resources requested to a recent fire in the City. At the recent airplane crash in Clarence, the County brought in a Type 2 IMT to assist with the management (overall - not just scene). Do any agencies around here do scene management this effectively? Do you assign appropriately trained and qualified people to be (for example) Resource Unit Leader (aka Accountability Officer), Staging Area Manager, Safety Officer, Operations Section Chief, Division/Group Supervisors, etc.? I realize the Air Recon Chief is unique to the FDNY but how do you approach the issue of overall scene surveillance? During large-scale mutual aid responses many chief officers may respond and I guess I'm wondering how they get utilized.

That's a pretty broad and sweeping statement. Would you care to elaborate or justify it? While there are certainly weaknesses, there are still a tremendous number of resources in the County and some really exceptional responders. Everyone: If you haven't already, please take a few minutes and help out a fellow member with an interesting project. Chovesh, good luck and let us know how it turns out.

The vehicle was on a public highway hence the "public" part of this. Case law, and the disposition of this case, would seem to disagree with you although the definition of "obscene" is frequently the object of debate in the courts. Quite simply what ever happened to respect? As for wearing a seat belt, the states and courts have held that it is Constitutional to require restraints by operators of motor vehicles whether alone or not. There is a substantial difference between a traumatic brain injury (and its attendant expenses) and tasting twinkies a second time. Thanks for the rant, it was an interesting read!

Sure 60-Control can do that - if the managers in the field give them the info or ask them to.

I'd call that professionalism. There's no reason to say you don't trust another provider just because you wear a different uniform. That was just stupid; perhaps a sign of immaturity.

Sounds like an effective system. I'm guessing that they have centralized communications, an interactive radio system, trained and experienced managers, comprehensive SOP's for an MCI, and hospitals that participate in the system. Oh, and no home rule! With the hospitals in Westchester County also on the trunked system, the technology exists for a similar communications bridge from the field.

You wouldn't even inform the incoming unit that it was a possible RMA or minor injury? It is not unreasonable to share your size-up with EMS and/or PD and not just the fire service on FD radios. Since we're not all on the same frequencies, it is the IC's responsibility to make sure that all resources under his/her command have all the information necessary. So in a system that provides an ambulance with an EMT & medic they can provide the same level of service and the same call to door time as a system that sends an ambulance with an EMT & medic plus two or three FF/EMT's (even if to just help carry all the bags/patient back to the rig). You can't tell me that you treat a cardiac arrest or other similarly difficult call with a crew of two as well as you would with a crew of two and assistance (whether PD/FD/other). If you want to tell me that you'd call another EMS unit, I'd say that now you're taking another EMS unit out of service so you're using TWO units for the same call, hardly an efficient process. What about the situations where the paramedic from a fly-car is forced to ride in with a patient alone because the transporting agency could only field a driver (who may or may not even be an EMT)? Hardly EMS doing their job well. I understand your sentiment about EMS but there are plenty of systems with tiered responses that are exceptional and plenty of EMS only systems that really suck. I'll grant you that if you're the IC at the call (if you're there you're the IC) you should have the ability to request/cancel resources as necessary. An agency that's not afraid to turn off it's lights and sirens to continue responding to non-emergencies. Pity more don't operate that way.

I'm thinking that he spent his last "dime" on recreational pharmaceuticals and that's why he ran out of gas. [sigh] Job security! [/sigh]

http://www.police.co.nassau.ny.us/eab.htm

I totally agree. This happens to civilians who "just ran into the ____ (insert Deli, Post Office, Bank, etc. here) for a minute" all the time. IF this fire chief had to leave the vehicle running to support radio equipment (not just to leave lights flashing in the parking lot) there should be a mechanism for locking it while it is unattended. It could be as simple as a second key! The bottom line is we're constantly reminded of how this can happen but we continue to make the same mistakes - and this time it resulted in a major accident. This isn't bashing (unless you count the remark about Mt Vernon ). It's a sad statement of FACT!

What exactly are you asking?

Just out of curiosity, what hours do the Brewster and Cold Spring PD's cover? Are either of them 24 hours? How many officers does each have?

Well, it doesn't condone the thief's actions but it wasn't the smartest move to leave the vehicle like that.

The whole premise for fire first response (not Fire/EMS but first response) is that they can get there before the responding EMS units. The point of this thread is not to debate the merits of such systems (the benefit of extra hands or EMS trained people arriving is tried and true!) but rather the unnecessary responses when EMS is first on scene and determines that no additional assistance is required. If EMS can't cancel FD, there's something wrong with the system. There's no reason to keep units running to jobs unncessarily. It's not wasted breath or air time to inform responding resources that the situation is under control and their assistance is not required. If they choose to continue their response because that's their policy fine, but they don't need to respond with lights and siren anymore. If they continue to respond with lights and siren even after being informed the situation is under control, the liability is on them. Just like it is appropriate to say "we have a cardiac arrest" so everyone knows the status and can expedite their response to render assistance. You can't rely exclusively on EMD; as someone else posted the EMD is only as good as the info provided by the caller. There are plenty of people who say what they think will get them a faster response and there are plenty of stupid people who simply don't have a clue. The NRFD policy is logical and well thought out. It allows for the cancellation of resources that are not required - after a thorough assessment - but not for calls that are outside of the EMS area of expertise. So is the FDNY policy - if EMS gets there first, the CFR engine is automatically cancelled except for certain types of calls. bnechis, one question though - if PD or EMS gets there and the MVA call is unfounded (not no patient but not there) do you still continue to respond? As for padding numbers, some agencies (PD, FD, EMS) may do that but I would venture to guess that it's the minority. Padding numbers may inflate egos or puff up people who think numbers are important but it won't make a department better!

Sounds like they're taking it pretty seriously doing training on the topic that often. Good for them!

And not a bit different than what anyone else is saying. It's always at the responding agency's discretion whether you say it or not unless you're a boss from that agency.

It is just ridiculous that when a competent professional is on the scene and determines that additional resources are not necessary they continue to respond. If the EMS unit is met at the door by a "patient", suitcase in hand, seeking transportation for symptoms times 10 days, there is no reason for fire apparatus to continue rushing there. We're not talking about a fire alarm or report of a fire. We're talking about a medical emergency at which the FD is only supporting cast in this performance. The star of the show is EMS. Why do we still have this discussion? Wouldn't you much rather go back to whatever it was you were doing instead of screaming across town unnecessarily? As for being "scolded or banned", you're not going to be banned for stating your opinion. Moose's point was that you can explain yourself a little bit more clearly with more than a one liner and there's no need to be "gruff". As you say, we're all on the same team and there's simply no reason to be gruff or harsh in your replies. If you say it to someone they can ask you directly for clarification or debate the point with you. We don't have that luxury in this forum - at least not immediately - making it important for communications to be clear and without malice. That's all, you can lighten up, nobody's going to "bring it on".

I asked this once before but the thread died (probably because of this question). Do any agencies have an actual policy on the taking of photographs while on duty or at a scene? Are there any regulations regarding the dissemination of such photographs? Given the digital age and the ease of carrying a digital camera (or phone) these days it is becoming a really valid issue.

Info on HIPAA from the source: http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/index.html http://www.hipaa.org/ Similar discussions on this forum: http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=26500&hl= http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=20996&hl= http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=17952&hl= http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=17382&hl= http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=1159&hl= http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=15371&hl= http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=10274&hl= http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=200&hl=