helicopper

NOW, you can request a BUS!!!!

I know that I’ll probably be burned in effigy for this thread but I’m going to ask the questions anyway. When does a new member of a volunteer fire department become a “firefighter”? The distinction is clear in a career department; they’re not a FF until they complete the academy so therein lies the issue. Is a new member with no training a “firefighter”? Does one become a firefighter after completing the minimum training required for that position? OK, that’s a reasonable definition, so what’s the minimum training? Does the designation as interior qualified make one a FF? Why or why not? If you say that every member of a fire department is a firefighter I’m going to call foul! If we deceive ourselves and our constituents by leading them to believe that there are X number of firefighters in the department because that’s how many members we have we’re doing everyone a disservice. How many of the members can actually be called upon at any hour of the day or night to perform all of the duties required of a firefighter? Do you require that everyone who joins to become a firefighter become interior qualified? Is there a timeframe? Again, why not? Does your department’s workers compensation insurance apply to all members or just those designated firefighters and fire police? If you have 300 members but only 100 are firefighters and/or fire police are you paying to cover the 200 other members as well? There have been many threads on many of these topics and these questions have built up so I’m doing spring cleaning for my question box – don’t worry though, there’ll be plenty more.

Did you wave when we were there??? As for Cortlandt, it was a perp search and a failure to comply... nothing major. And the green and red lights don't flash - they're always on.

That's true but in the public eyes when they call a firefighter whoever responds is going to be fully qualified to perform whatever job is required. After all, that's why they called the fire department. And of course William Shatner will be narrating everything... The public's expectation is probably much higher than we anticipate. What if anything do we do to educate them about reality?

Most hospitals have Presidents and/or CEO's who are not physicians. Airline CEO's are (in most cases) not pilots. They make all the above decisions you describe with the input of those who'll be using the equipment but without any of the biases that a FF would have. They are arguably more objective in their decision making process.

Where were they? I know we were low but we never saw any of them...

Wouldn't the commissioner who is also a volunteer firefighter also be his own boss? How is that not a conflict of interest? How does the chief discipline the FF who is his commissioner?

Date: 04/16/09 Time: 2000 Location: Saxony Ice Company, 500 Fenimore Rd Frequency: various Units Operating: Mamaroneck PD, FD, EMS, Westchester County Haz-Mat, Westchester County Health Department Weather Conditions: clear, cool Description Of Incident: Ammonia leak from compressor at ice company. Evacuations underway and 10 block area isolated and ramp from I-95 closed. 2200 - Haz-Mat Team controls leak. Air monitoring continues in area. 2300 - Perimeter reduced, traffic patterns returning to normal. (all times approximate) Writer: Chris192 Link to Journal News Article

Wrong side of the road or wrong side of a divided highway? There is a difference. At least with a double yellow line you can get back to the correct side when things don't go as intended. The judgment that this driving was or was not appropriate/legal may not be limited to "not causing an accident". People can be charged with reckless driving for conduct that "endangers users of the public highway" (NYS VTL Section 1212). I'm not suggesting that this incident was reckless but we have to remember that we can be held accountable for conduct without any accidents or injuries in our wake. The opposing lanes of traffic could be closed prior to using them for travel in the "wrong" direction. If the argument is that there was nobody on the scene who could do that and if the risk/benefit assessment (oh wait, do drivers have to do them too?) warrants such a response, then at least drive with the divider on the side of the apparatus instead of splitting lanes. This way you only have hazards on one side of the vehicle instead of both! You think this is harsh? Wait until the lawyers realize that fire and EMS can be sued just as easily as PD! Just because the law grants us permission doesn't make it right (or safe)!

Two helicopters? Did we have a shadow? It was a perp search...

Hopefully they investigate this until an arrest is made. The correlations between animal cruelty as a precursor to violence against humans is well established and this level of inhuman behavior is a harbinger of bad things to come!!!

It's just a convenient target to blame the training hours. Couldn't possibly be the fact that fewer people are interested in community service or that most people work two jobs (or more) to make ends meet, could it? Attacking the minimum standards - which are already pretty low - is going to wind up getting people hurt when they're not prepared for the job!

Another point - I can't help but believe that the presence of the camera and the driver's knowledge that the response was being recorded added to the hype and increased the level of "hot-dogging". So I'll restate my position that unoffical cameras have no business in emergency vehicles during emergency responses and we should have policies governing their use if we allow them. Doesn't matter if we know what department it was or what stretch of highway it was - it was stupid and dangerous. How many apparatus accidents have we been hearing about lately? How many more do we have to hear about because this nonsense is tolerated and tacitly approved by complacent officers?

Sorry but I gotta disagree if you think that driving on the opposite side of a divided highway AT oncoming traffic - splitting lanes in the wrong direction - is an acceptable response. It was a response to a car fire, right? So what warrants the risk of driving head-on at people when you have absolutely no idea (or control over) what they're going to do. If anyone of those people in the left lane did what they're actually supposed to do and pulled to the right to yield to the emergency vehicle, they would have crossed right in front of it. Not smart! My personal opinion, that's not driving with due regard and I'm not aware of any EVOC course that teaches it as an acceptable tactic. Ironically I happened to be at a car fire on a divided highway just yesterday and none of the responders (police or fire) drove on the wrong side. In fact, traffic was so bad that additional apparatus had to be special called to respond because one of the initial responding pieces got stuck in traffic enroute. PD was also delayed responding by the traffic but again I ask - so what? The fire burned until FD could put it out and the charred remains sat there until PD could facilitate its removal. Nothing is worth killing or being killed over!!!! SLOW DOWN!!!! The life you save may be your own.

DEP also has the ability to control the levels in most of the reservoirs so they can raise or lower the level depending on the needs of the system. So you may see a reservoir that's extremely low by design. Simply amazing system! Of course come August it'll be because NYC is using too much water and it hasn't been raining enough but that'll be another thread...

Another thread on the subject made me wonder how many of us actually have dispatchers with EMD answering our calls...

Let me rephrase... Why aren't many actually accredited?

OK, so who is accredited and what is the deal with getting accredited?

Alas, the benefits of the "low profile" and "unmarked" cars... They are not designed for covert surveillance, they're designed for traffic enforcement. If (and for some this is a big if) you're smart enough to pick out the unmarked and low-profile cars and you slow down and/or you point them out to someone else - they've served their purpose. You can sit out there all day long in a fully marked car with or without an ALPR and write ticket after ticket. Traffic enforcement is designed to gain compliance with the law so when you see these cars and double-check your speed or hang-up the cell phone or whatever they've done their job. For those who don't pay attention, they get an autograph to remind them about the law. There really isn't any need to make unmarked cars so covert that you can't pick them out - at least for traffic enforcement. Now for applications where secrecy is important, investiations and surveillance for example, the ALPR can be concealed and the vehicle camoflauged to prevent detection. As for multiple plates in the frame, I don't know exactly how the technology works but it can process multiple lanes of traffic in both directions (I think the closing speed is capable of like 150 MPH).

Not really. People don't really pay attention to things like that and it isn't just unmarked cars they don't see. You'd be surprised at how many people don't notice (or ignore) low profile (fully marked cars just without the roof lights) cars and do stupid things in front of them.

Isn't it great to live in a country where you can both be right!

Connecticut does issue two plates now - and for a long time. The trick was just recognizing the tell-tale for a single plate or pair of plates!

Moreover you won't find a body with the TIC if the temperature of the body and surrounding environment are the same - such as in a fire. Also keep in mind that thermal imaging cameras do not see THROUGH anything. Someone could be on the other side of a closed door and you won't see them unless there's a temperature difference on the door itself. TIC's are great tools but they're not magic and the lack of understanding of their proper use has caused major misunderstandings in the legal community so do yourselves all a favor, train with and use the TIC often!!! As for this Chicago fire, there have been no official statements and the investigation is only just beginning. Perhaps we'd be best served by waiting for some more information???

There have been great responses to this question and some interesting perspectives but I don't think the problem is as simple as any one thing or even any few of the things that have been cited here. Here are some random thoughts on the subject... It's not as simple as saying a union will fix things or Medicare/Medicaid is to blame for the pathetic pay in EMS. One major problem is the recognition of EMS as an essential emergency service and the proper designation of EMS providers as professional healthcare providers. To accomplish these things, the notion that EMS can be a hobby needs to be seriously and intelligently discussed. Questions about the training curriculum and certification process have to be asked and answered. Course sponsors need to be reimbursed for properly training EMS professionals not just pushing people through the program who only know 70% of the job! Municipalities need to have realistic expectations not based upon emotion or tradition but based upon standards and credible studies. EMS agencies need to be held to these standards and there must be some type of accountability if you don't. Existing providers need to be committed to performing at the highest standard not just meeting the bare minimum to stay certified or MAC approved. Medical Directors need to do just that - direct medicine - not rubber stamp things or passively participate in the programs they authorize. For this, they need to be compensated as well. The idea that a licensed physician puts his/her license on the line in the hopes that the system they authorize will perform adequately without their guidance and direction is absurd. If agencies can't maintain the staff necessary to do the job or their members fail to do the job consistently, resulting in abuses of the mutual aid system, there needs to be some sort of recourse. Obviously the existing oversight structures aren't working so its time to look at other alternatives. When EMS was born, the idea was that the pre-hospital component was only one element of the system. We need to get back to that idea and put the system back together. It is too fragmented and poorly organized/coodinated to be considered a system. Some agencies do it well, some don't yet all are treated equally and that's no system. When contracting for a service, jurisdictions need to stop trying to save a few pennies by taking the low bidder who can't possibly meet the terms of the contract and develop RFP's for comprehensive EMS. The vendors awarded these contracts need to perform to the highest standards and not simply be the low bidder. As for a salary comparison, JEMS does a good job of reporting national averages and related info. Not specific to our immediate area but it does paint a good picture of what things are like elsewhere. 2008_JEMS_Salary_Survey.pdf 2007 JEMS Salary Survey (too big to upload here) 2006_JEMS_Salary_Survey.pdf

INIT is correct. The database only tracks stolen and suspended registrations. If you're friends registration was suspended and they have no proof to the contrary, they're going to have to take it up with DMV. V85, the database in the ALPR is updated daily directly from DMV so if you get a hit it's probably going to be the same information as received by a radio check. If the database is current however, there's no reason why you couldn't act on the information from it. Whether or not you have to go through your dispatch center is probably a matter of department policy. AJS, EZ-Pass records can be subpoenaed for investigative reasons and have been used to identify where a vehicle (associated with the tag) has been so I'm not sure what you mean. This does take a court order; a law enforcement officer can't just call EZ-Pass for the info.