helicopper

http://www.lohud.com/article/20090428/NEWS...344/1018/NEWS02 Follow-up on the story...

Nothing worse than cop pilot math! And the fish in the bucket screw up the weight calculation entirely!!!

As for accident reports and insurance issues - every reportable accident regardless of what vehicle you're driving results in an accident being recorded on your driving record. When engaged in a bona fide emergency operation, a distinction may be noted such as "POLICE INVOLVED" or "FIRE VEHICLE INVOLVED" but even if the reporting officer notes this it won't prevent it from appearing on your record. It just shows that it was an emergency operation and I don't know what every insurance company will do. Just routine patrol or returning to the station in apparatus will not result in such a notation and the accident will remain on your record and you can be subject to sanctions by your insurance company. There are differences in the VTL for police vehicles. A police vehicle may be engaged in an emergency operation without lights/siren operating but that is an exception for the police due to responses for crimes in progress and such.

Dude, you're killing this thread with actual questions that you really want serious answers too... Sheesh... That depends alot on the circumstances. They're evaluated on a case by case basis. We would probably make sure that the State Police were working with you up in Dutchess before we'd make that trip. Fuel range, about 300 miles on a single tank of fuel. That would take about 2.5 hours (or so depending on winds). Flight time to Dutchess County Airport from the Westchester County Airport is about 20 minutes. If you're Poughkeepsie figure about another 5 minutes or so. As for how soon we can be in the air, we can be in the air for a law enforcement mission in about 5 minutes when there is a crew on duty. If we're not on duty and have to be recalled, it may take up to an hour to get airborne (depending on who's called in, from where, etc.). For a fire mission, we'd probably take about 30 minutes to get airborne (again if we're on duty - longer if we're not) and we'd land at the scene to prep the equipment and discuss the strategy and tactics with the IC. One thing to always keep in mind, no matter how hot you are, you don't want to be standing under a water drop. A thousand pounds of water hitting you is alot like a half ton of water hitting you! We will not drop in an area where there are ground personnel so it takes a little coordination to make sure we're operating cooperatively. Depending on where the fire is, we may need to scout out a fill site, make sure the route between the fire and fill site is secure, etc. I hope that answers your questions.

We fly that one by remote control from the one pictured above.

Come on, folks. This is Westchester County. Before we pick up any water, we drop off divers who make sure no fish swim into the bucket. Westchester is a green county! Happy Earth Day!

I think you mean PETA! You know, People Eating Tasty Animals...

SEI Industries is the main supplier of buckets (including ours). The capacity of our bucket is 180 gallons (for a total water weight of 1440 pounds). There are a variety of ways the bucket can be used including trail drops, trail drops with the fire sock for greater coverage/dispersal, spot drops (for those stubborn trees or tree stumps, and foam integration. The NYPD and State Police have buckets also. Depending on the aircraft the bucket may be larger, but for a Bell 407 the largest bucket will be 180 gallons. As NY10570 said, there's an electronic release inside the cockpit. There is also a marine recovery device in case the bucket is separated from the aircraft in the water - it's basically just an float bag that tells you where to direct the boat to pick it up (the bucket, hopefully not the helicopter!). So far, the Westchester County PD has been used in Yorktown and West Harrison for such fires. NYPD was summoned to assist with a fire in Somers before we were properly trained and equipped to do it ourselves. We've also been requested for out of county fires but to date we've not gone mutual aid for them. We're an eco-friendly aviation unit - if it weren't for us that tree would never get watered!

Shall we discuss water bills? Touche, Abaduck! Very clever.

I'm a big fan of standardization and wish NY was more like some other states in that regard. Some states regulate the lighting packages on a police vehicle and to be considered a authorized police vehicle it must comply with the law. I think the black and white is extremely distinctive and should be the national standard for police cars. With that in mind, it should be unlawful for a non-police vehicle to be painted as a black and white - ironically there is taxi company in Westchester running with black and white cars but I guess they're safe because NY will never get its act together on anything let alone standards for police cars. It's funny how school buses all look alike no matter where you go in the country - I guess there are fewer egos and attitudes associated with them! And that's a problem, nobody knows who the cops actually are anymore!

It has been discussed, I don't know if I'd call it to death, but someone wants to start the discussion again and given the economy, it is not unreasonable to discuss and think about costs associated with emergency services. Links to some of the prior discussions: http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=9118&hl= http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=22265&hl= http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=24043&hl=

Albany County has enacted a local law making it illegal to text while driving. Albany joins Schenectady as the second county in NYS with such a law. http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story...?storyID=789902

Nobody's disputing that the YPD does a great job. Civil Service Law and contracts would provide protection to the officers. Probably the only rank with an issue is "Detective" since it is not a tested civil service position but I'm sure that would/will be subject to the negotiations between the two jurisdictions. Nothing says that would have to change. When the County became involved in policing in Cortlandt it provided DARE. The County PD also provides many outreach programs to support local municipalities.

True but I can't imagine that the Town would simply abdicate all their responsibility to their constituents. There would have to be some sort of accountability to insure that they provide the proper level of service to the Town.

Can you trust the town to do that? There are no guarantees in life.

Let's not discount anything as a possibility (Putnam Valley PD, Cortlandt PD, Pawling PD, etc.). The Town Supervisor is doing his job - to investigate things that would save town taxpayers money. Nobody is saying that it is a done deal or that it will happen overnight. Who knows, they may come back from doing the research and find that it wouldn't be the best thing for the town or the County. Many of the Yorktown officers could be absorbed by the County PD, vehicles and equipment maintained (at least during the transition), dispatch services handled by the County PD, and administrative, record keeping, property, investigative services, etc. all handled centrally to make this more cost effective. I don't know what you mean about "much more manning would be needed" - a cop is a cop. If Yorktown put out four or five cars and the County agrees to do the same there would be no reduction of service. In fact, there would be an improvement - the County can draw upon many more resources faster than the town in an emergency. As for waiting for back-up on parkway traffic stops - one of the reasons for that is the illogical and outdated method of policing in Westchester County. One of cars could be sitting on the Hutch with a New Rochelle car, Harrison car, and Mamaroneck car all within one mile or one minute but the County sends a County car which could be coming from the Airport or Yonkers. With a County PD or at least regionalized communications the closest car could be dispatched eliminating the delay and distance problems. I don't know where you get your information but when both Cortlandt and Putnam Valley were disbanded, their officers transfered to other jobs. Fiscal belt tightening is an issue but this is an example of consolidation to save money. Why couldn't it work? Hence the reason for 59 fire departments, 43 police departments, 40 or 50 odd EMS agencies, and 50 plus school districts in the County. THAT'S why taxes are so high! No exception, huh? Did you say the same thing about Cortlandt or Putnam Valley? Look what happened there. Think about this - a major incident happens in Yorktown (not an impossibility), the Yorktown units respond, are backed up by other County units on duty, Yorktown detectives start investigating and are backed up by the full strength of the County Detective Division - more detectives, crime scene/forensics, etc. Definitely gives the Yorktown crime victim more bang for their buck. Criminals don't pay attention to muncipal borders. The idea that Yorktown couldn't be well served by the County PD is absurd. To say that it would be better or more cost effective remains to be seen but economies of scale would suggest it will realize some savings. Now if we could just consolidate or merge all the duplicative village PD's into their respective towns we'd be on a roll. Instead of 43 PD's there would only be 20 something. THAT is a start!

I get it, believe me. I get that you want to show up and get your job done as quickly as possible so you can go home. But I think we're just on opposite sides of the issue. I think there are plenty of people who would rather give up four hours in one shot than respond to random pager calls (sometimes only to find out the call is covered before they get there). And I know that I'd rather do four calls consecutively without leaving and returning, leaving and returning, etc. Rostering may be inconvenient to some but the reality is that more people are inconvenienced by pager calls. With a roster (whether in-house or not) only 2-3 people need to respond for a call. Without a roster many have to drop what they're doing to cover a call and still only 2-3 are needed. We don't have to agree and we probably won't. That's OK.

Still images snapped from the FLIR camera system... The color ones are blurry because it was so dark but the thermal imaging ones give a good perspective of just how big it got. With the contrast adjusted the actual fire burning is much more vivid. These photos are the copyrighted of the Westchester County Department of Public Safety and may not be reproduced, copied, or used in any manner without the written permission of the Westchester County Department of Public Safety.

The IRS considers it compensation and I think most taxpayers will consider it compensation. We're not talking about socializing or hanging out at a scene - we're talking about making EMS resources available in a timely fashion when adverse weather conditions will impact response times. If you're not in EMS then this argument is really moot anyway. The fact is that time matters and if EMS providers want to be professionals they'll make sure the ambulances are staffed when they need to be, including sometimes on stand-by. As for your discontent about sheets and barcodes or officers and troopers, perhaps you should address that within your agency as it is clearly not the subject of this thread.

This might be fodder for another thread but it fits just as well here. First off, not all "volunteers" do it for free - if they receive LOSAP or other inducements/benefits it is not free. I will assume that for our purposes we're discussing those who are actually doing this in the spirit of volunteering and are not receiving any form of compensation. As for me personally, well this isn't about me nor is it necessary for me (or any other member) to defend my opinion but since you asked: my job in law enforcement is paid, yes, but I have been involved in volunteer fire and EMS (way more EMS) as a unpaid volunteer for decades so I might just have something to contribute to the discussion. Back to the topic. NO, commitment isn't giving up part of your life but it does require giving up some of your time - for training and to do the job. If you're able to clear an EMS job in 15 minutes I'm going to speculate that you're working in a community with a hospital. That makes a big difference on turn around time. When you've got a 15-20 minute ride to the hospital in good weather, it only stands to reason that it will take longer in inclement weather. The same can be said of response times. If it takes 5 minutes to get to the ambulance and another 5 minutes to get to the scene and another 5 minutes to actually reach the patient in good weather and double that in bad weather what happened to the victim's viability? There are response time standards for EMS and doing it for free doesn't give you carte blanche to ignore standards or regulations or pick and choose your calls. Too many people in the volunteer sector feel that they should receive special consideration because they volunteer. The illness or injury doesn't care who's treating it and all the patient wants is a competent professional to take care of them. They don't discriminate based on paychecks. I find it ridiculous that people who assert that they are "EMS professionals" won't staff an ambulance for a shift or two instead of just being on-call. I've heard FD's tone out to staff the apparatus during inclement weather and all I've suggested in this thread is that EMS considering doing the same thing. If that's what is required to do the job right, then do it. If a volunteer isn't willing to do the job right, I'd rather they didn't do it at all. But hey I'm a paid cop what do I know.

I'm sure that the victims of the MVA's we're talking about are really worried about inconveniencing the crews of the ambulance that they need to get them to the hosptial. If people don't want to do the job required of them - and sometimes that's "standing around" (in a building with heat, food, water, cable TV, internet, and other amenities) - then they should rethink their commitment to the job. EMS is not a hobby and our treating as one is a major reason why it is so screwed up. I am a strong advocate of volunteer EMS but am tired of excuses from the volunteers that the training takes too long, the calls take to long, or whatever else is the complaint du jour. Either do the job or don't. If an agency can't do it with volunteers, then they should hire the people necessary to do the job right. If more volunteer agencies rostered full crews instead of hoping that they can cover calls when the tones go off, there would be less discontent because you'd know when you're expected to be immediately available and rigs should get out faster. As someone else said in another post, "you volunteer once when you join - after that it's a commitment".

Are you saying these pictures are Abby-someone? Abby-normal? Thanks a lot! Given the location and how dark it was on that hill, I'd be surprised if there were a lot of photogs wandering about...

During inclement weather, when response and turn-around times are going to be longer anyway, EMS agencies should assemble crews in quarters and staff all the available vehicles they have. It does seem a waste to send fire and EMS to every car off the road during a snow storm but perhaps putting a couple of fire and EMS people in a 4WD vehicle and having them respond with PD "to investigate" these jobs and serve as first responders when someone is actually injured would be a prudent and effective idea. While many will argue this, most trauma calls are BLS and can be treated and transported without a medic and suffer no adverse affects. So the issue of sending medics on every car accident call shouldn't be that big a deal. The few medic units that we have should be strategically located to be available for as many calls as possible. In severe weather, they shouldn't be pulled to one side of their response area or another on calls that can go BLS. When the really serious job pops up they're available and can do the most good for the most critical patient.

I'm absolutely sure he could see it from Yonkers. Lots of people apparently did (including us).

Date: 04/18-19/2009 Time: still ongoing Location: Alpine NJ - Palisades Interstate Parkway overlooking Hudson River (opposite Yonkers/NYC border) Frequency: Units Operating: Numerous FD's, PIP PD Weather Conditions: clear and warm (Red Flag warnings earlier this weekend) Description Of Incident: Major brush fire on side of cliff from PIP overlook to Hudson River. Numerous calls to 911 in New York reporting fire across the river. Access a serious challenge due to terrain, steep hill. One lane on PIP northbound closed for emergency vehicles. Reporters: Writer: Chris192