helicopper

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-0...blacklist_N.htm

Efforts are underway to redesignate Peekskill Hollow Road as an "urban minor arterial", increasing the speed limit and changing the character of the winding country road. Not surprising at all, this is being met with staunch resistance from neighbors of Peekskill Hollow Road and the residents who live along it. Following are some facts about the plan and the opposition to it. If you live in Putnam County you may want to keep an eye on this - it could happen near you next! If you know PHR, you also know that widening it and straightening it will severely affect homeowners living there and exacerbate the traffic and speed problems already being experienced there. A hearing on the subject is scheduled for Wednesday, May 6 at the Putnam County Courthouse at 6:30 PM. http://www.pcnr.com/News/2001/0718/Front_Page/057.html

100K is a lot but probably includes fringe benefits and other "costs" that don't relate directly to the trooper's salary. It's nice to know that CT is so well protected - five troopers for 600 square miles. Tie up two of them at a bad accident and you only have to cover 200 square miles if you're one of the remaining guys. Response times must not be an issue at all. No, a town like Kent probably can't afford a full-time PD but the resident trooper program is a great option to increase the coverage in a town in a reasonably cost effective manner. At least its some police presence.

Unforutnately, yes. I was called to the home of my grandmother twice while working as a paramedic - both times for heart attacks. The second time she arrested during the call. Thanks to our efforts and those of the ER staff, she made it to CCU but she died later that night. That was a long night!

Wow, first time? I can't remember that far back. A memory is a terrible thing to... What was I saying? Seriously, I can remember several memorable codes (successful and un) but don't remember the first.

Do you mean that the car was transported by Sellicks Towing with ALS on board? Perhaps an IV of transmission fluid, positive pressure ventilations to the exhaust system, or a jump start with the defibrillator? Paramedics are hopefully treating the occupant of the car based upon physical findings with mechanism of injury considered also and not simply "going ALS" based on the damage to the car. [/satire]

Are there different types of gators in the "gator task force"?

One of the parts of this that offends me the most is the "rights of way acquisitions". They're going to use eminent domain to take away people's driveways, front yards, and property along the road where there is no option to widen the road another way. If one was fortunate enough to have 20 feet between their home and the road, they'll now only have 10. Some of these homes have colonial era stone walls at the roadside - do you really think Putnam County is going to insure that the esthetic values are retained or will it become a concrete retaining wall for juvenile delinquents to ply their graffitti skills (as they do now at the Taconic overpass and other locations). In still other areas the Peekskill Hollow/Hollowbrook Creek is immediately adjacent to the roadway. Substantial construction will be required in these areas to widen the roadway as there is no "land" there. Walls will have to be built, fill imported to raise the grade, etc. For what? Putnam County has done an abominable job maintaining the road. There has been no plan, no organization, and no follow-up. They've installed curbs and storm drains with no consideration of the roadway pitch or bank causing more draining issues than they've fixed. Curbs and storm drains just appear as if from nowhere so if you're forced to the side of the road by someone in the opposing direction driving too fast, bang, you've got a flat tire and bent rim. People's wells (their drinking water) are already being contaminated by the runoff from this road as is the Peekskill Hollow Creek. Adding eight feet of pavement will only make this condition worse and I think the County has turned a blind eye to this issue as they approved the plan before the environmental impact study was released. Hmm... That's awfully responsible don't you think? Sage, I don't think this is NIMBYism because the argument isn't against making improvements to the road. The argument is against taking a winding country road and straightening it, widening it, and increasing the speed limit on it when it can not sustain that kind of travel. There are hundreds of driveways, dozens of school bus stops, and intersections galore on this road. Even if they did engineer it perfectly (and when has that every happened), raising the speed limit is only going to cause more problems. It's bad enough that cars do 15-20 (and more) over the existing speed limit but when they come hammering around a curve only to find a stopped schoolbus or someone pulling out of their driveway, it's just plain dangerous. I was taught that there were three E's to make a road safer or improve traffic flow. Education, Enforcement, and Engineering. If you educate people about driving you'll reduce accidents. If you enforce the law you promote voluntary compliance with the law improving safety and reducing accidents. Finally, when those two inexpensive options fail you engineer out the problem. There is no enforcement on Peekskill Hollow Road and despite letters and phone calls to the Sheriff's Office and State Police the only action taken was by the Town of Kent PD who actually did some enforcement on their stretch of road for a while. There is no police presence in Putnam Valley but that's for another thread. As other posters have said, if this is all in the name of safety do some enforcement and see how that works before you urbanize a country road.

DIVISION [/NIMS police]

Date: 05/02/09 Time: approximately 2145 Location: 3rd Pct - 2nd Pct - I-87 south into Bronx - Mosholu Pkwy - E 233rd St - Barnes Av Frequency: YPD, WCPD, NYPD Units Operating: Yonkers PD (numerous units), NYPD (multiple units), NYPD Aviation (PD18) , WCPD Aviation (Air2) Weather Conditions: clear Description Of Incident: Originally a traffic stop, vehicle fled almost striking YPD unit. During subsequent pursuit, suspect vehicle rammed at least two YPD units before fleeing southbound on I-87 into the Bronx. Pursuit continued off and on until NYPD aviation picked up vehicle in 47 Pct. Vehicle was lost briefly by aviation under the elevated train platform on White Plains Road, found by ground units abandoned on Barnes Avenue off E 233rd St. Area canvassed with negative results. Several crime scenes being processed - accident scenes and location where vehicle was abandoned. Writer: Chris192

Sure it wasn't a body?

Cogs, thanks for the very thoughtful response. I'm sure most people aren't advocating acceptable losses but when you read a quote like the one below it makes you wonder. I understand the risks, there are probably just as many risks in law enforcement, but it is not a part of the job that firefighters die. It is a failure of the system when any one of us (in emergency services) dies. Virtually all line of duty deaths can be avoided even when being aggressive and doing your job. There's a saying in aviation that removing any link in the chain of events leading to an accident will prevent an accident - the same is true here. Having the best training possible, being physically and mentally fit, using the available equipment to its maximum potential, effectively managing resources, obtaining more resources when needed (and not "doing without" because you think its a sign of weakness to ask for help), changing strategies or tactics when the initial plan isn't working, etc. can all remove the link that would have led to an injury or fatality. My only argument against your analogy is that most people don't have equal measures of brains, brawn, or balls and the one they're lacking is probably the one they needed! All too often we see the results of the balls and not the brains/brawn! Great post!

So, are you saying that there should be acceptable losses in the fire service as there are in the military? Does this mean that the IC is going to say alright, your four guys are going in to make an aggressive interior attack but only three of you may come out? I'm just playing devil's advocate here but I don't think we should ever say that a firefighter's (or PO or EMT(-P)) life is expendable and I'm shocked to read that in this thread.

Amen!

Jeans aren't Nomex. Why wouldn't you get the green pants if you're going to get the yellow shirts? Your points about needing wildland fire behavior training and management of such fires are right on. Just because this is NY doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate training topic.

Could you or anyone else with this opinion give an example(s) of when safety "gets in the way"? I'm curious as to how/when this phenomenon occurs.

I agree with Goose that Putnam is not the best example though it does have some good points. First, the county is primarily providing ALS service countywide. It also provides BLS coverage because the local agencies have been unwilling or unable to step up and do it properly. This creates a political issue because now residents of at least three towns are paying for a service they don't receive - there is only one BLS unit and it only covers a portion of the county. Because the county provides the ALS but has little control over the BLS, there are instances where the medic has to take BLS calls to the hospital when the volunteer BLS crews don't get out. Finally, the system is a low-bid contract system (at least it was, hopefully now it is a little bit better). This almost cost Putnam County its ALS service when a low bidder said "sorry, we can't afford to do this anymore" and left the county with two options - pay more or hire someone else. Not a good political situation. I applaud Putnam for getting the ALS system established on a countywide level - it's the only way to work in a county such as Putnam. But the BLS "system" is still a nightmare!

And TRAINING!

How about a countywide system administered by a professional EMS manager and medical director with measurable response time standards, ALS coverage, staffed BLS units, and EMD. I agree that establishing it as a government entity with civil service protections is desirable as low-bid contract awards get you just that. This is not to say that commercial providers are substandard but they have a different mandate and bottom-line when compared to a municipal system. But (being infinitely optimistic) I do believe that the system could have paid elements, volunteer elements and still be a cutting edge EMS system. Managing a county level system and not a patchwork of individual towns, villages, or districts would be far more efficient and cost-effective - that's probably why it will never happen.

I answered my own question - the above gear is 6.0 ounce Nomex so it is fire resistant. The cost is about $225.00 per set so it's far less than the other PPE pictured in this thread yet it still offers some degree of protection.

I respectfully disagree. Standards are standards and if you pick and choose the ones you're going to follow sooner or later someone is going to get hurt. You're certainly right that we have different types of fires here in the northeast then they do out west but that doesn't change the fact that the standard exists - and it exists for one reason alone - to protect firefighters. Does the NFPA standard say "only applicable west of the Mississippi? I think not. All the qualifiers in your post seem to diminish your certainty that FF in NYS do not need appropriate PPE. Aren't the NYS Forest Rangers wearing the heavy duty yellow shirt and green pants? Isn't that fire resistant material and able to withstand snags, abrasions, etc.? Maybe you're right that cotton shirts, cotton jeans and work boots are appropriate but is that enforced? Looking back at several recent fires I'd say, no. My original point is that structural FF PPE is not appropriate for brush or wild fires and the appropriate stuff should be made available to you. Please don't give me the expense excuse. Departments duplicate heavy equipment all the time - we need two hurst tools on this truck and two on that truck "just in case". Save one set of Hurst tools and buy the right PPE! I can't believe that it's the cop ranting about the right PPE and the FF saying it's not necessary.

NYS General Municipal Law Article 122-B The problem is the word "may" in the first paragraph. Doesn't really compel those who need to be legislated to do the right thing to do the right thing.

Using that logic, why do you invest in structural firefighting PPE when the department has about 4 structure fires per year?

While simultaneous dispatch with a second agency, paramedic fly-cars, and mutual aid are all band-aids. None of them actually fix the underlying problem - inadequate staffing and failure of "management" to deal with the issue. Relying on other agencies or paramedics is not a solution to this problem! Paramedics should be used when advanced life support is required and not to serve as the EMT for the basic agency that is unable to staff its ambulance. The ultimate failure is at the Department of Health that allows agencies that can't provide the service they're chartered to provide to continue to exist. There must be some accountability and if an agency consistently and routinely is unable to get out the door, the DOH should step in with a warning. If they still fail to respond, they should have their operating certificate suspended until they provide an operational plan that insures adequate coverage and response. But the DOH is a nightmare and treats EMS as a distant afterthought so I doubt they'll ever step up. (This is not a criticism of any of the employees of the Bureau of EMS but rather a condemnation of the Department and how EMS is regarded by the administration). The other entity that is culpable yet ignores their responsibility is the town/village/city board/council that allows this to continue on their watch. Though pitifully worded, the law requires that towns ensure emergency ambulance service is provided. So, where's the town? Are they turning a blind eye to the problem because the "good ol' volunteers are doing the best they can"? What about their constituents who need the ambulance for their emergency? Do they even know it is their responsibility? What "power" does a volunteer EMS provider or administrator have to give up anyway? What would they possibly lose by insuring the service is responsibly and properly provided? This is much bigger issue than a single town in a single county and I hope the members of that agency realize this is not directed at them personally.

Isn't there a wildland firefighting PPE standard? Will jeans and a long sleeve shirt afford you any fire protection? Obviously structural firefighting gear is inappropriate for the conditions so why is it the norm? Are there no safety officers out there looking after you?