helicopper

Agreed. I understand they're trying to make a point but who suffered from this decision? They missed out on a unique and valuable training opportunity. Do you think any legislators care that they're making a stand such as this?

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/sou...0,4086642.story Fascinating technology.

If it was 11 PM, it wasn't us. The perp search in this article was us. Dummy, tried to outrun/outhide four dogs, a helicopter, and about 30 cops!

A good example of why it is so important to secure a landing area when landing a helicopter. AeroMed Helicopter struck on highway It is unclear whether or not the "vehicle" was an emergency vehicle or civilian vehicle but either way, 1) it is a very expensive oops, and 2) the helicopter was unable to fulfill the mission it was requested for. I know of at least two local incidents where a landing medevac helicopter had to abort its landing because of emergency vehicles traversing the landing zone and another where an ambulance drove into the landing zone ostensibly to "drop off the patient" but came dangerously close to the rotor blades with the vehicle. Securing a landing zone for a helicopter is critically important and should not be taken lightly. Landing zone security includes pedestrian traffic (including responders) and emergency vehicles. Good communications between ONE person on the ground and the aircrew is very important also.

Helicopters can hover, can't they? We even have alternating head lights!

There are lots of unenforceable local codes/laws out there. As you said, the ticket(s) written to the medevac pilot were thrown out in that case. Unless it is a scheduled or regular happening, it is unrealistic to expect the helicopter crew to have counsel research local ordinances prior to landing there especially for a medevac call. I know some "celebrities" have gotten tickets for landing their helicopter on their own private property in violation of a local code. They just pay it and chalk it up to the cost of being a celebrity.

First, hasn't this been going on since 1997? Didn't this first get proposed during the Clinton administration? Second, this would only apply to Presidentially declared disasters so if you're late for work because of a fire call, you're not protected. Perhaps a State law could be enacted for that level of protection. Since disasters don't always get a Presidential declaration until after the fact, it remains unclear how this would apply during the initial response, before a declaration. Basically I wouldn't hold my breath.

My thoughts exactly! I'll be up there today looking for them. Wait a second. It wasn't an all black helicopter was it? You know, the kind that keeps following you around...

Was not Westchester County PD.

Just from the personnel perspective, they could save 21 positions per shift (4 per engine/5 per truck, right?) with these closures. Reassigning those 21 members could theoretically reduce overtime by 21 shots per shift. Spitballing on the salaries - this is purely spitballing the numbers - it could be about $15,000 per day in savings. That's about 5.5 million for the year - or roughly half of what the mayor will spend on his re-election campaign. Hmmmm.....

Let's define a "haz-mat team", too. Does the VA have a full team or just elements of one? Can they do all the things required of a haz-mat team or would they need support? 2 in, 2 out, decon, etc. Could the VA have been a first response element while the county team responded?

I'm not criticizing at all. Yes, you should certainly have a say in what resources respond to incidents in your community. If they weren't requested, they should not have landed. I'm starting to get a picture of which job this was and I have to wonder... Did an agency other than yours with jurisdiction/responsibliity request them? Was it a breakdown of on-scene communications between the FD commander and PD (or other) commander? Was it a water rescue situation where there is an automatic dispatch of the agency in question? Doesn't that agency respond to many marine incidents the same way the Coast Guard does - in fact don't they fill in for the Coast Guard in this area? If this is the case, I don't think they were buffing per se. It was just a breakdown of good communications and common courtesy. They should have communicated with personnel on the ground prior to landing. If the nature of the call warranted the response of divers, shouldn't we get over the communications gaffe and try to work together? I understand why you used the scene tape and might have done the same thing myself. Who knows? Interesting situation! Hopefully it won't repeat itself - either the incident or the communications gaffe.

It will come out in an audit anyway. I don't think this has anything to do with FDIC or Firehouse EXPO but rather the Congressional-like junkets to the Caribbean for officers and significant others at the taxpayers expense. You should be able to FOIL a districts financial records. They are public records for use of public funds. I think the taxpayers have a right to review them and provide feedback to the district/department.

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=31822

So, how much is going to be added to this thread now that they're using the UCT's?

So unless they hire their spouses as employees of the district, they can no longer pay for the family jaunts to the islands for winter "conferences"? Unfortunately, how would one get caught violating this policy? What are the penalties?

It isn't unreasonable to have two helicopters in a 100x100 area - the helipad at the medical center is smaller than that and they put two helicopters in it all the time. The reason for the 100x100 isn't so much clearance on the ground but clearance from other obstacles - wires, trees, scene tape, etc. Personally I think scene tape is a lousy marker for landing zones but I guess it served its purpose in this case, didn't it. Did the pilot explain himself? Did anyone ask him what he was - or wasn't - thinking? Approval? Do you really need to grant approval for the helicopter to land? Other than doing his/her job of communicating the hazards in the area and confirming that the LZ is secure, does the LZ officer have anti-aircraft armament (say that three times fast!) to prevent them from landing without approval? I see you referred to it as a coppter - is that Fruedian?

Is the ground contact communicating with the pilot or is he just told to look for Engine 123 and he lands by Engine 123? If you tell him where you want it, they'll generally put it there unless there's a safety issue or something. Bear in mind too, the pilot might be trying to make the flight crew and ground personnel's job easier by landing closer to the operation. If you don't want them to do that all it takes is a little communication!

I don't think that's his point at all. As he said in the initial post, the rider from Beacon to NYC (in your example) pays about $15.00 for his ride to NYC while the subway rider pays $2.50 - that is inequity. While I agree that the bailout plan puts an awful burden on the suburban counties, be careful what you wish for! Do we know for sure that the fare from Beacon to NYC wouldn't be double (or more) without the MTA? What about everything else? Without the NYC share of state taxes, what would our share be? It definitely sucks but I don't know if backing out of the MTA is the answer! On a related note, if I heard correctly there is now a payroll tax on all employers - including not-for-profits and other entities. If the MTA can tax a not-for-profit entity, why can't a fire district or local municipality tax the not-for-profit (colleges come to mind) for services that it uses?

You make it sound so obvious but given the discussion in this thread it was not so clear that they stopped so I asked.

Very true! I think the concept is great and there is no down side to "rostering crews" in volunteer agencies. Reduces response times, reduces the numbers of people who have to respond to an initial alarm, and promotes team and crew building. This may be just the thing that volunteer agencies need to bolster their viability.

According to the IA, the ped struck was discovered by units responding to a reported fire. My question is - did they stop and attempt to provide aid/care or did they continue on to the fire call? The reason I bring this up is a prior thread about stopping for a call encountered while responding to a different call. Just curious...

Date: 05/10/09 Time: 0045 (approximate) Location: Jamaica Bay Frequency: NYPD SOD, USCG Marine 16, NYPD Division, FDNY Division Units Operating: Numerous PD and FD, NYPD Aviation and Harbor, Sea Tow Weather Conditions: clear 60's Description Of Incident: Overturned or sinking boat with three people on board and three additional people in water. NYPD Aviation on scene with patrol helicopter, awaiting Air-Sea-Rescue returning from job in Yonkers (BRP). Numerous other units on scene or responding. 0055 - NYPD Harbor and Sea Tow on Scene, four people rescued, in the process of picking up two others. 0100 - All people out of the water and aboard other boats. Writer: Chris192

I think you're right but many agencies still call themselves volunteer but employ personnel so it is not as simple as we'd expect. BLS can not be free of charge because you can't bill for ALS treatment without also charging for the transportation. The ambulance also needs fuel and insurance, the building needs electricity and HVAC, telephones, etc. Equipment and training is needed there too so it is absolutely not free. Someone is paying.

Or reduce their pensions and have them pay for their healthcare coverage after retirement!