helicopper

Good point, Seth. One of the most frustrating things is to have 30 people signed up for a class and then have only half actually show up. I don't think the County Executive will directly cancel course offerings but it is directly tied to the budget at DES so there is a link. I would also be concerned with the implications of state budget cuts on state classes offered here in Westchester. If the "doomsday" budgets become reality, training may become very scarce!

Um, what is the boat on top of the rescue for 500, Alex?

Thanks for correcting my numbers. Am I correct in saying that every engine and all but one ladder were committed to this fire? Any other job, small or large, would have required putting the mutual aid to work? This is without Ridge Hill or any other devleopment being completed and placing additional demands on the City's resources. Is it also safe to assume that when confronted by a multiple alarm fire you stop responding on medical emergencies anywhere in the City? So the taxpayer on the east side can't get CFR's on scene in 3-4 minutes because the city has opted to play roulette with their safety by continuing cuts to the FD and PD.

There've been many discussions on this board about the pros/cons, advantages/disadvantages, etc. of various staffing configurations and response times. Here's a great example of what can be done (numerous rescues and, as PEM03 said, preventing extension to exposures) when you respond with a full complement of qualified personnel in a timely fashion. It also highlights the benefits of training, pre-planning, and discipline to make sure that the two first and second due ladder companies were able to set up at the front of the fire building. On the initial call there were (approximately)32 +/- fully qualified "interior" firefighters managed by at least one Chief and seven or eight company officers. I guess we can forget the 4 in 4 or 10 in 20. The second alarm and third alarms brought (again approximately) 20 more firefighters plus officers to the scene and the fourth brough still another 16 plus officers. This doesn't count the support services that were undoubtedly involved (mask service, fleet maintenance, etc., etc.) All this was in the first 22 minutes - sixty-eight firefighters plus officers and support. Add EMS and at least a dozen police officers and supervisors too. The other interesting note in the IA (great one BTW Truck4 and you still managed to get pictures!) is that the mutual aid was relieved by reserve apparatus staffed by recalled firefighters so as not to hold equipment out of its home jurisdiction for a protracted period of time. How many departments have the apparatus to do that or organize their own personnel to release mutual aid instead of holding everyone at the scene. Didn't a recent thread on the subject of staffing say something about having 50-60 firefighters on the scene of a fire in a single family dwelling? How many weren't working and could have been deployed to other apparatus to increase available resources in that community? I don't understand why instead of aspiring to meet NFPA and other standards, we buck them with all kinds of excuses and then criticize those who advocate a single standard to raise the bar and improve things for everyone. Given the proximity of the exposures, narrow one-way street in front and limited access from other sides, it was indeed an impressive stop. Before the nitpicking begins, the times and numbers are all approximated.

"In the heat of the moment"? There's something fundamentally wrong with that statement. Either we're professionals and this is just another response or we're the keystone cops and lose our minds when the bell rings. Train the way you fight, fight the way you train.

Hard to be inconspicuous in that get-away car!

Regrettably the selection process does leave much to be desired. Because the success of a federal program is measured not on increased capabilities at the local or regional level but on the numbers of seats filled or certificates issued (as is the case with the online training that the Feds keep pushing on us), there is absolutely no correlation between training and capabilities. In fact, students are blindly accepted into programs where there should be strict background checks and screening due to sensitive content. It's great to take people into these programs who are just seeking to increase their knowledge but only after the local, regional, and state capabilities are bolstered with targeted training deliveries. And before you get too excited about these "free" programs, wait until April 15th when your taxes are due and think about whether or not you want four of the six good ol' boys in a rural Mississippi FD taking seats in a high level CBRNE class on "Uncle Sam"!

"Without worrying about the laws and what not" is fast way to find yourself on the wrong side of them and in hot water. A badge by itself means nothing; they must have official department ID to go along with them. Without the ID, the badge is just a nice piece of tin or brass. You should speak with the hierarchy of your department to figure out what is and isn't permissible so you don't run afoul of their rules too.

Enjoy it while you can. The Bloomberg administration is targeting parades for cuts/limitations next year to help balance the city budget so the parade may be substantially shorter next year!

Yes but the rotor wash blows the froth off the cappucinos and the powdered sugar off the cannoli.

I remember, but the coffee wasn't from Slave to the Grind was it?

No, no trouble at all. Just make sure the roadtrip breakfast location is big enough for someone else to "drop in"!

The notification to the dispatcher should be only seconds (less than a minute). This system will be especially useful if the Mayor's doomsday budget is enacted. When the shotspotter is triggered, the one dispatcher left in the City will know where to send the ME to pick up the body.

You took the words right off my keyboard, I was going to say we're upgrading to the Blue Thunder whisper mode. I think the real problem is Yonkers bought the budget version of the system. We never have that problem in Mt. Vernon!!!

Nice work on the Ludlow St / Stanley Av job. They said numerous calls but never mentioned the shot spotter, do you know if it triggered too?

Had to go there, right? Alright, I'm on my way down there now to see just how many sensors we can trigger at one time!

900 layoffs? That's CRAZY! The nightmare is further described in a presentation on the City of Yonkers website... http://www.cityofyonkers.com/Index.aspx?page=29&recordid=667

Cell phones aren't just for the nouveau riche any more. You'd be surprised how many "homeless" and "indigent" people seek public assistance from Social Services while on their cell phones...

I'm not aware of any "standard" for law enforcement on the subject of minimum staffing. That's how local departments are able to dictate their own staffing levels. In some places it is contractual; i.e. how many officers are required per shift.

Saturday night the PD was still dispatching the ambulances. Did this change start on Monday?

There have been many threads lately where the issue of consolidation/regionalization have been discussed. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the issue objectively and without it being associated with a specific incident or agency to avoid personal and emotional responses though I'm sure there will still be many among us who react that way. If we're all truly in this for the public, we should be able to rationally and professionally discuss the matter and promote what is best for the public, not ourselves. Here is one source on the subject: http://www.pace.edu/pace/dyson/research-and-resource-centers/academic-centers-and-institutes/michaelian-institute/michaelian-institute-and-westchester-fire-chiefs-evaluate-consolidating-services/ Given the study's findings, it is hard to dispute that regionalization and consolidation would not be a good thing for the targeted departments. By extension, one would have to conclude that there would also be benefits to other regional approaches and consolidation. NFPA 1710 is pretty clear in its recommendation (requirement) that there be a staff of four on an engine or a ladder - six if "In jurisdictions with tactical hazards, high hazard occupancies, high incident frequencies, geographical restrictions, or other pertinent factors as identified by the authority having jurisdiction, these companies shall be staffed with a minimum of five or six on-duty members. How many "career" FD's in Westchester County meet NFPA 1710? Is it just Yonkers or do others make the grade? On the volunteer side, NFPA 1720 describes the staffing and response time criteria for volunteer agencies. Do the volunteer FD's in Westchester meet this standard? Would they if districts were consolidated and a regional approach was used? The Michaelian study summarized the findings (please read the full report for the details): Financially there is a tremendous savings too. "A consolidated district would be able to meet these standards with the existing roster of 604 approved (599 of which are filled) positions. However, if the 10 departments attempted to meet these standards individually they would require 504 additional positions at an annual cost ranging from between $40 million and $52 million." (from the Michaelian study) 40-52 million dollars is a lot especially given our current fiscal crises and the layoffs and other issues affecting some of these departments. But there's more that can be saved... Interesting case studies from the report: There are also similar structures throughout the rest of Westchester County, not just the study area, so the question should be asked everywhere "can you adequately respond to such a fire in your district/department?" Given all this information, why is there an argument against regionalization? Sure, there are challenges but they are not insurmountable.

This is one of the things that makes this site interesting and useful. Thank you, Chief, for taking the time to answer when clearly you didn't have to. It also speaks volumes about knowing what you're getting and not assuming! Caveat Emptor! Is the resource you're requesting going to be able to do the job you want it to or isn't it? Kudos to you and your department for using the right resources for the right job!

First and foremost I'm not criticizing anyone (except perhaps the Thruway Authority). My question is specifically about the command of the incident as it relates to the stranding of dozens (?) of people overnight on an interstate highway. The TA and SP should have been much more proactive in establishing a proper command post and coordinating the goings on within their area - the interstate highway. Friday afternoon I heard conflicting information about the status of the highway including from the State itself. This is absurd. I find it absolutely ridiculous that the State failed so miserably to communicate effectively and coordinate the response to this moderate storm (what if it was worse?) in it's area of responsibility. Again, this is no reflection to the local agencies who had their own share of problems going on.

Did the State of Emergency in Orange County involve I-84? Was an emergency order filed and communicated regarding the closure of a State Highway? This is an interesting question for the legal types. Were any local emergency orders issued regarding travel restrictions? I only saw recommendations to stay off the road, not orders. As for the vehicles - how 'bout tow trucks? How about SP securing their keys and as the plows get to them remove them to the nearest exit by tow or other driver? Shutting down the interstate at the ends doesn't do a lot when you factor in 21 entrance ramps in between. This seems to be where one of the big failures occurred.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/25/spellman.colorado.springs/index.html