helicopper

They also have inmate wildfire crews doing fire suppression not just "camp crews". It's actually remarkable to see and they work just as hard as their non-incarcerated counterparts (or else they wouldn't be on the crew). Youth programs are a valuable tool but many of these kids cannot be trusted in a PD/FD/EMS environment even at 12. They need extremely close supervision and direction. Without that the problems will persist.

The "rescue" issues are one thing and I'm not speaking to that because "rescues" do not have jurisdictional boundaries. I respectfully disagree that every jurisdiction needs a boat (or boats) of their own so they can respond on the off chance that something happens in their neighborhood. However, on the law enforcement side there is still the statutory "geographical area of employment" (GAoE) issue and some would opine that this is forgotten on the water. Local police departments may have statutory limits restricting their GAoE so they can't just go out and write tickets or conduct enforcement details on the water. It may be the water line, it may some distance off shore, it may be shore. Before jumping into the water with both feet, local jurisdictions should make sure that their PD has the authority to be police on the water.

Vote here and discuss in the original discussion thread... DISCUSSION THREAD

We can probably answer that without asking...

Can't speak to the decon question but as far as contact or secondary "high" it is certainly possible. I would make sure that there was ample documentation of the incident because if you wind up in random drug testing next month it could be disastrous to your career.

Departments shouldn't adopt their standards for driving based on who's available at 3 AM or 3 PM. They should have comprehensive screening processes, training (both formal classroom like EVOC and in-formal on the road training), and evaluations before being allowed to drive for an AFA or mutiple alarm fire.

Are there any actual statistics on apparatus accidents and the age of the driver to provide substantive information to this debate? Someone already made the point that a 30 year old isn't necessarily a good driver just based on their age so... what do the facts say?

Comparing the fire service to the military is a bad example. The military is far more structured, disciplined, and supervised. No 18 year old is operating a tank by himself without supervision and repetitive training. At issue is also your assertion that any of this is a "right". Emergency service organizations can absolutely pick and choose their drivers and there is no right being infringed. Others have said it well. It depends on the individual and their department.

What do you define as "search and rescue"? What qualifies a vessel to be able to handle search and rescue?

You're right, you can't simply go against protocol but if you have findings supporting a deviation from that protocol, a simple phone/radio call to medical control can get you the approval to do it within the scope of your practice and with the protection of your medical control

I haven't read the reports on the sites above but caution must be exercised when considering "blogs" as your source of research. Most blogs are not peer-reviewed research-based journals commonly accepted within the medical community. Before stating that something is a fact or has been shown to be a myth, consider the source.

Then they should collaborate and share combined resources so that the volume is adequately covered without a drain or "abuse" of any single community. If there are abuses of mutual aid then, as others have already suggested, fix it. But if you want to say you can't have mine because I'm paying for it, I'll point out that we're paying for the VAC's and VFD's also so the point is moot.

Yes, and who pays for BLS4? Is that part of the County's ALS contract or is it strictly a revenue recovery supported unit? If BLS4 is paid or even just subsidized by the County, it is being subsidized by people who don't benefit from the service (Philipstown, Putnam Valley, Kent, most of Carmel). And the taxpayers in Southeast and Patterson pay taxes for their community based services AND the commercial BLS unit.

Date: 06-25-11 Time: 0950 (approximately) Location: 2384 86th Street Frequency: FDNY Brooklyn Units Operating: FDNY, NYPD, DEP (for water pressure), NYC Transit (adjacent to elevated tracks), NYC DOH (fire in a restaurant) Weather Conditions: fog Description Of Incident: Fire started in a laundromat, extended into the cockloft throughout fire building and into exposures 2, 2A, and 4. Rapidly elevated to 3rd alarm plus 2 additional trucks. Fire building is a 125x50 commercial taxpayer. 1030 progress report - 6 hand lines stretched and operating, searches delayed due to fire volume, 2 tower ladders being set up, still doubtful will hold. Reporters/Writer: helicopper Initial: E-253, 243, 330, L-168, 172. B-42 10-75: 153 Fast, E-254, R-5, Sqd-1, B-43, D-8 All Hands: E-245, L-161 2nd Alarm: E-276, 246, 247, E-284 w/ Sat 3, L-156, B-33 and B-40 3rd Alarm: Additional Trucks: L-166 109

Barry, I know you see the tax cap as a death knell for small local municipalities and districts but a Quinnipiac poll shows that 79% of New Yorkers favor it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304569504576403730763020802.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Ironically there was a series in the Gannett newspapers at the time describing response time issues, staffing shortages, and a "patchwork" approach to EMS that meant, according to their headline, "Where you live could cost your life". And, if I recall correctly, Ted Tully was villified for proposing a real system for the County and not supporting the dysfunctional "system" we relied on then and... wait for it... continue to rely on today. Isn't it funny how much things have (not) changed? I must say that the one thing that has improved since that series is the proliferation of ALS coverage. Today most of the County has dedicated ALS units but there are still major problems with the rest of the system.

Sounds about right. If they don't increase the debt ceiling the federal government will be broke too, right?

The bottom line is that almost every EMS agency has staffing and response time problems. It may be AVAC on Monday, BVAC on Tuesday, CVAC on Wednesday, etc. but the bottom line is the system is deficient. We cannot guarantee response times that meet or exceed recommended standards, we don't have solutions at the system level, and we continue to get defensive (and in some cases offensive) when these problems are pointed out. It is not a personal reflection on any person or any agency to say that the system is failing. To say that AVAC is better than BVAC because of Tuesday's data is short-sighted, self-serving, and grossly inaccurate. We need to stop worrying about the 1.5 square miles that is "my turf" and start looking at this from a true system perspective. What will make the most sense, be the most efficient, and the most cost-effective? THAT is what we should all be looking at. (For those who didn't recognize it, AVAC, BVAC, and CVAC are fictional examples to illustrate a point using the letters A, B, and C. If you're associated with an agency that has those initials, I was not referring to you!)

Playing devil's advocate for a minute, you mean to tell me that you and your union would oppose a system that would allow you to add FF to the roster every day while EMS is being provided at or above the level it currently is? For my own information, are your medics still assigned to apparatus or are you dedicated to strictly EMS? Looking forward to your response!

You bring up an excellent point. IA's should be posted when information is at hand and confirmed. Remember, IA's must be for confirmed jobs only and confirmation usually includes a location.

Cessna 172, 182, 206, 210 all operate out of Westchester - single engine piston aircraft. There's probably a 150 or 152 around as well. A bigger issue would be the Cessna Citation line of jet aircraft. Just because you hear "Cessna" don't assume 2-4 seater.

Off-topic and inappropriate exchanges in this thread have been removed and the thread is reopened for discussion related to the incident. Please use the PM system for personal exchanges and/or start a new thread for other topics. Thank you. The EMTBravo Staff

The airport's plan is different than the guidelines from the FAA. They use the alert levels to guide responders on the kind/capacity of the aircraft not the nature of the emergency. As loopy stated, this was an alert 1 by definition but was dispatched as an alert 2. Airport 7 and 11 wouldn't have had any information to provide 60-Control via the trunked or any other radio since the plane went down off-airport and the location/conditions were unknown.