helicopper

Some very interesting observations about our state of preparedness in Westchester County. I'll let the comments start the discussion.

It was entitled "Where you live could cost your life" and it was an unusually accurate bit of reporting but as you state, it did nothing and we have only made small strides in the quarter century since. Right on all accounts!!!

If you leave your vehicle running and unattended you're violating the law so the officer is protecting you and himself by securing the keys for said vehicle.

Are you kidding? You must not be listening. Link to Full Article (USA Today) All have either laid off, are threatening to lay off, eliminated open lines (cut positions) , or are considering layoffs: Atlantic City, NJ Camden, NJ Newark, NJ Paterson, NJ Trenton, NJ North Castle, NY Newburgh, NY Nassau County PD, NY Rockland County Sheriff, NY Orange County Sheriff, NY Westchester County PD, NY Yonkers PD, NY Saratoga Springs, NY Niagra Frontier Transit Authority PD, NY Orchard Park, NY These are just NY and NJ. I didn't even delve into CT. In other parts of the country it has even been worse! DOJ Report - Impact of Economic Downturn on Police Agencies.pdf

Seriously dude, you're going to tell me that you never moved another emergency vehicle or had one moved for you? And if someone was trying to do the right thing and help you out by moving a police car you'd collar them? Nice. And I can't believe you're actually suggesting that the driver of the ambulance positioned the vehicle to "inconvenience" others on the road. See my other comment about urban parking problems but more to the point is the EMT did what he/she had to do and was completely justified. Should they really have gone hunting for a parking space? Remember this little pearl from COP101? Does it occur to you that if the woman had just heeded the officer's admonition about not moving the ambulance and went to work, none of this would have happened? Instead she interfered with them on the scene and had the temerity to go to the PD to make a complaint. Clearly she didn't get the point so to reinforce that point now she'll find out how the judicial system works. It's not the EMT's fault that this woman talked herself right into handcuffs.

According to the Lohud article, so take it for what its worth, the officer ran downstairs after hearing the reverse alarm so the woman had already moved the ambulance. This could have been avoided if there was adequate parking for a police car and ambulance but how often in cities like White Plains do you have to double park or park in a driveway because there is no other space available? Should the crew have circled the block until a legal parking became available? Really, this is all due to one woman's impatience and arrogance.

Wow, that's a harsh perspective. The law doesn't allow for applying responsibility to the victim of a crime. The days of prosecuting a sex crime victim because of their attire are over and if I choose to leave my car parked with the door unlocked, you can't "blame" me for a criminal's action. I understand your point about responsibility but that's not the same as culpability. It may be irresponsible to leave your wallet sticking out of your pocket but it doesn't give anyone the right to take it.

What does "volunteer" have to do with billing for services rendered? I think calling an agency volunteer when it doesn't pay employees is appropriate but billing for service is a valid mechanism of recouping operating expenses from the user and not the community. I think that is an effective tool and shouldn't be dismissed simply because the crews don't receive a paycheck.

http://www.wremsco.org/Pub_Info/2008_Westchester_EMS_Study_Final_Report.pdf Apparently in 2008 for the EMS Council and EMS Advisory Board.

Location: Zone 5 Law Enforcement Training Academy 121 Erie Boulevard, Room 107 Schenectady, NY 12305 Times: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 8:30 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. Wednesday & Thursday, January 25 and 26 - 8:30 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. Friday, January 27 - 8:30 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. G-139 Exercise Design Course_Schenectady Announcement 1.24-27.12.pdf

The New York State Disaster Preparedness Commission Exercise Coordination Committee is sponsoring the Homeland Security Exercise and Evaluation Program (HSEEP) Training Course, which is an intermediate-level training course incorporating exercise guidance and best practices from the HSEEP Volumes and HSEEP Toolkit. Location: Putnam County Bureau of Emergency Services 112 Old Route 6 Carmel, NY 10512 Dates/Time: January 10-12, 2012 - 8:30 a.m. – 4:30 p.m. HSEEP Announcement Putnam Co. 1.10-12.12.pdf

http://www.health.ny.gov/nysdoh/ems/policy/09-07.htm Yes, we're in agreement that a policy was violated but it doesn't excluse the woman who committed a crime. At worst the EMS crew execised bad judgment. 4 out of 5 crews are guilty of the same procedural violation apparently.

I disagree. The crew may have violated procedure or may not have exercised the best judgement BUT nothing gives you the right to take what isn't yours even if it is a vehicle left running and unlocked. Best practices dictate that you don't leave a vehicle unlocked but the suspect is the only one culpable.

What happens between 6 PM and 9PM? Who's the vendor for the daytime coverage or are they hired independently by the VAC?

X2321 summed it up. We have heard from all sides and because of the emotions associated with this matter, the thread is now closed. Thank you.

Link to Original Discussion on Incident

Just because the majority of the first responders were volunteers doesn't mean a cheap bill for an extended and involved operation. ust because the majority of the first responders were volunteers doesn't mean a cheap bill for an extended and involved operation. The report on the radio this morning detailed 30K for just Croton with a total of 50K for the total operation. I'd be interested in seeing the report that Lohud references to see how they actually arrived at those numbers. It may also be useful to other agencies in future operations where reimbursement may be possible. Of course, the only reason FEMA may actually entertain this request is because it is associated with a declared disaster. Had this been the day after a heavy rain storm, there'd be no basis to submit to FEMA.

Please remember that many Mahopac members and EMTBravo members (past and present) are reading this thread. Consider their feelings when posting and be respectful. Thank you.

Alright, everyone needs to settle down. First of all, typing in all capital letters is considered shouting and is not appropriate etiquette for this forum. Future posts typed in all caps will simply be deleted. This subject is an emotional one for affected members and it just happened so everyone needs to be sensititve to the fact that some fellow members lost a friend and colleague. Regardless of whether or not you think the tribute paid was appropriate, please be respectful of your fellow firefighters and EMTBravo members. Thank you.

The funds are controlled by the State Comptroller so I don't think it can just "be done" with the stroke of a Governor's pen. Other states have gone down this road with terrible outcomes. I hope that it doesn't happen here.

Looks like a hydrant was struck as well. You can see it is DOA in the last picture. The asphalt must have been knocked around when the pipe shifted.

I don't think we can ever get close enough to a root cause to determine if it was visibility vs. other factors. Most of the accidents on the "federal highway right of way" that I'm aware of have multiple contributing factors and visibility hasn't been one of them. Alcohol/drugs, speed, failure to yield or move over seem to be the most insidious and vests do nothing to mitigate them.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics! The problem with these statistics is that we don't know all the information. Would any of these deaths have been avoidable with the use of a traffic vest? Don't know. Would any additional officers have been killed/injured if they were wearing one in a tactical situation. Don't know. I'm not suggesting that traffic vests don't improve visibility or safety on the highway but if I'm in a foot pursuit, I don't want to be reflective from any angle. How do you know when you're going to get into a foot pursuit? You don't! That's the problem; there is no simple solution. If we could find out how many of those traffic fatalities were due to poor visibility or as a result of not being seen we might be able to draw a more informed conclusion. But even the "killed outside of vehicle while on traffic stop" category doesn't tell you whether or not a vest would have mattered? I know a few specific instances in those cases from last year where alcohol or drugs was a contributing factor and I would submit that a vest isn't going to make a damn bit of difference in those cases.

Looking into the Federal Register brought up another question on the same topic. The regulation specifically states "wear high-visibility clothing...within the right-of-way of a Federal-aid highway". What roads in our area (besides the interstates) are "Federal-aid highways"?

From the Federal Register: Many police duties, especially traffic stops, have the potential to become tactical situations in the blink of an eye. Therefore it would be imprudent and unsafe to be wearing a reflective high-visibility garment during those assignments. The whole issue of "felony" stops vs. conventional traffic stops is moot because some stops aren't known to be felony stops when they're made. Those that are, generally result in the complete closure of the road anyway (at least if they're done right) so traffic isn't an issue.