helicopper

There was a brief discussion years ago but it was pretty quickly dismissed by all the interested parties.

Is that a good thing? What's wrong with having users of the service subsidize the system? It reduces the cost to all the taxpayers who don't use it.

Doesn't Medicare or some other outside entity set the rates for reimbursement by most of the insurance industry? You can bill any amount you want but you're not going to get it all back. You'll only get a percentage.

Courts are not involved with this proposed consolidation . Fines and fees from tickets/arrests by the county PD already go to the local courts so that isn't an issue.

He's apparently been promoted to COMMISSIONER according to the CBS News... http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/01/24/battle-heats-up-between-fdny-bronx-volunteer-unit/

Date: January 30, 2012<BR>Time: approximately 14:22<BR>Location: 33 Lincoln Terrace, cross street Glenwood Ave<BR>Frequency: YFD, YPD, Empress EMS, Con Ed<BR>Units Operating: Initial Assignment: Engines 303, 308, 309, Ladders 71, 72, Rescue 1, Battalions 1 and 2 (SOFR)<BR>Weather Conditions: clear, cool<BR>Description Of Incident: Initially dispatched as outside smoke investigation, determined to be structure fire.<BR>Reporters: helicopper, peterose313, FF1, sfrd18<BR>Writer: helicopper<BR><BR>E303 in area reporting smoke showing, attempting to locate source, probable 10-29 (working fire)<BR><BR>Yonkers dispatch reports calls now from area of Lincoln Terrace.<BR><BR>E303 on scene with structure fire. <BR><BR>Battalion 1 on scene, 10-30. Fourth engine FAST, 5th engine to replace 4th. E310 (FAST), E312 5th engine.<BR><BR>1440 - Second alarm: E306, 304, L75. Per Car 2 stage on Warburton Avenue. <BR><BR>1445 - Car 4 now IC. Primary searches underway, residents being pulled from building. All hands operating, heavy fire on 3rd floor and cockloft. Fire building is 3 story OMD, appx 50x75. Exposures: 1 the street, 2 3-story frame, 3 vacant lot, 4 a 2 story frame w/ 25 foot separation. All 2nd alarm companies to report to front of building with masks and hooks. <BR><BR>Concurrent assignment - E314 and L70 investigating electrical condition. Yonkers down to 3 engines and 2 trucks citywide. <BR><BR>1455 - 3rd Alarm: E307, 313 L74 <BR><BR>1456 - Car 3 orders immediate evacuation of building. Starting master stream operations. 1528 - Progress report from Car 4. Master stream operations underway. Making progress ATT. <BR><BR>1600 - E317 in service, relocating to Station 9. 1607 - All companies still working. Heavy fire on sides 3/4 all floors. Multiple master streams, handlines and exposure lines operating. All companies still working. 1610 - L78 in service, operating from Station 9. <BR><BR>1623 - Car 4 requests Squad 11 and L73 to scene. Yonkers reports L70 replacing 73. Relocations include 1 E from Mt Vernon, 1 E from Greenville, 1 L from New Rochelle and recalled companies 317 and 78. <BR><BR>1710 - Exterior master stream operations continue, main body of fire knocked down.

You've described five or six different locations in your rant about a call-taker/dispatcher being thorough and querying you about where you were so she could send help to the right place. That doesn't make her mildly retarded or the bottom of the barrel. It means she was doing her job, just a like any other dispatcher should. I'm not sure why this annoyed you so much but I've been on both ends of the phone and radio in all kinds of situations and nothing is worse than sending resources (or responding) to the wrong location because of incomplete/inaccurate information. Perhaps if you were a little more patient and articulated things more clearly than you did in this thread it would have been a shorter call because if you were on the phone with me and gave five locations I'd keep you on the phone and keep trying to narrow it down too. I don't know what you consider a "good dispatcher" because I've heard the good the bad and the ugly from local, do-it-yourself dispatch centers and I've heard the same from regional centers. It all depends on training, experience, protocols, and supervision. Talking to a trooper may or may not have been any better because he (or she if you'd stoop to talking to a female) may not be any more local than the dispatcher is. Another point of clarification, the Putnam County Sheriff is not Putnam County 911 so if you're asserting that Putnam 911 does a good job you're thanking the wrong agency. But you're right. Putnam 911 does a good job because of the above.

Just out of curiosity, which map has it wrong? The Bronx River Parkway terminates at the Kensico Circle and the Taconic State Parkway begins there. Now for more stupid highway trivia, anyone know why there are mile markers on the TSP from the Kensico Circle to the Dutchess/Columbia County lines but none from there to the interchange with I-90? That part of the Taconic is remote enough that you could actually use them because exits are often miles apart.

They're also the cellular 911 answering point for the County and the dispatch center for State Police in Westchester and for local PD's where the State Police patrol. The TMC handles dispatch for the HELP trucks on roads patrolled by the SP also.

JJB531 pretty much sums it up. My point was the municipality is the final authority on the provision of emergency services within their borders to if the City says thank you but we're not interested, they are not going to be part of the city response and will not have the implied contract that protected them in the past. The "chief" of Aviation says that he will only respond to an order from the Mayor or the OFPC. My point is that the Fire Commissioner is an agent of the Mayor and his order probably carries the same amount of weight legally. After all, city health inspectors, code enforcement officers, fire and PD officials close down unsafe or illegal facilities all the time on the City's behalf. OFPC is not the AHJ over an FD so the reliance on them to intervene is probably misplaced too. If the FDNY Commissioner notifies the Aviation FD or whatever its called this week that it's services are no longer required, they probably will have a hard time proving a contract in the future.

Are you talking about by the Kensico Circle or by the Hawthorne interchange??? Maybe she knows exactly where the Taconic meets the Bronx River but wanted to make sure that you knew where you actually were. Asking for a mile marker narrows the "search area" dramatically because people call reporting that they're on the Sprain at the NYC line or the Bronx River Parkway at Jackson Avenue quite often. Sounds like it was a reasonable follow-up question to me. What's the big deal?

Back what up? That the municipality is responsible for the fire service? I'm pretty sure that comes from state law (Town, Village, etc.) and according to someone I know at OFPC, they don't "approve" FD's.

Perhaps. It would again depend on the circumstances and conduct of the parties involved. Depending on how the vehicles are (or are not) registered, there could be VTL charges for the operators and perhaps the owners. Like I said before, there are many potential issues associated with this situation. Recognized by who? FASNY is a fraternal organization, isn't it? They don't regulate anything. The "chief" asserts that he will only respond to a directive from OFPC or the mayor but OFPC doesn't regulate departments, the municipality does. The Fire Commissioner, an agent of the mayor, directed them to cease and desist so I would think that he has the backing of the mayor's office but that's just me. I think their standing will come into question now if they were "disbanded" and reformed. The legal case in 1995 was based largely on an implied contract. I think the city's order to stop responding to their calls will eliminate that contract and they'll be on their own if someone else gets hurt/killed. Not a desirable position to be in. .

There are a variety of potential charges. As ny10570 already noted, Obstructing Governmental Administration and Obstructing Firefighting Operations are possible. Other potential charges couuld also exist depending on the circumstances. There is no "freelancing" charge in the law, perhaps we should propose that though! As for the "please leave". If the police or fire department say "please leave" to someone on an emergency scene, that constitutes an official order and there's no defense. The "Good Samaritan Act" defends people against civil action for intervening before responders arrive. The GSA doesn't protect someone if they're interfering with responders on scene or purporting to be something that they're not.

The biggest issue that I see with this is the responsibility placed on the Commissioner of Health - not a State EMS Commissioner/Director. The "Bureau of EMS" is one of many subdivisions within the State DOH and it is ridiculously small and short-staffed.. All these "powers" bestowed on the Commissioner will probably in practice be delegated to the Bureau of EMS that has an "acting" director right now. The turnover in Commissioner's is going to affect continuity and could result in drastic changes in policy and practice with every change in administration.

Much is being said about not depleting someone else's resources to help with a major incident. We in the northeast enjoy some of the most abundant resources on the planet. If we deplete these resources we got bigger problems. We can always backfil and/or augment resources; that's what mutual aid, emergency management is for. We can always move someone else. to cover - NY has moved resources across the state for incidents and we've mobilized to other states when necessary. At no time did we ever diminish a local community's coverage. Abuses of mutual aid are a different discussion.

Even ambulance chasing lawyers must have the legal basis for litigation. The series of dots must be founded in law and precedent in order to be successful. In 25 years I've seen very few successful lawsuits against emergency services or municipalities regarding emergency services. Not to say that it's not possible While we are definitely a litigious society, inferences and recognition that there is a better way to do things don't by themselves support a claim.

For those of us that are unaware, what is/was a fire warden or board of fire wardens?

How is it staffed? Do they do any medical assessments for rehab or is it strictly a "have a drink and go"?

People are injured/killed intervening in law enforcement incidents all the time. However, and these are just a couple of examples, good samaritans saved countless lives when they retook control of Flight 93 on 9/11 and train riders subdued Colin Ferguson during his shooting rampage on the LIRR so there are examples. These humans were trying to save other humans trapped in a burning building. They were not professionals nor were they probably aware of the hazards associated with their actions but they did try to do something when others routinely stand idly by. I won't be so quick to condemn them.

Isn't everyone on the bubble these days?

100% correct. Kudo's to the FD's that are getting ahead of the curve and doing it on their terms.

If it's a town there would still have to be a fire district, right? I thought it was pointed out in another thread that town's cannot be in charge of a fire district, only villages and cities.

Can't the homeowners' just give 60-Control's number as the FD number?

It's apples and oranges. If you want a paid FD job you have to be on a civil service list so you should seek out and take every test available to you. An FD can't just hire you because you're a volunteer; there is a civil service process you have to adhere to that includes educational and residency requirements, physical and psychological screenings, and other things. Start by looking for human resources or civil service units/offices for information. That said, volunteering is a good way to get experience in the fire service but it doesn't guarantee you'll get a job in a career department. Good luck and study hard! The jobs are getting harder and harder to come by these days.