helicopper

I think it also depends on the system volume. If you're doing a call every other hour the 24 hour day can get pretty old - especially if you pick up a real job in the 20th hour (or later!).

Yet another example of poorly informed politicians making decisions about public safety. Can it be done - sure. Should it be done - absolutely not! It is hard enough to maintain proficiency as either a firefighter, police officer, or paramedic. There is great training out there but there are only so many hours in the day and if this town's budget is tight, I'm comfortable guessing that they won't be paying overtime to send guys for training. So, I'm guessing that the political bean counters are saying - you just put water on a fire and write tickets all day so why can't you do both? We can only hope that more informed and reasonable minds prevail and show them just how misguided this is. On the safety side - where will they wear their newly issued firearm? On the inside of their turnout or on the outside? Wow, that will be make it pretty warm when they get out of a fire!!! If they don't carry a firearm on duty but are also police officers they've got a recipe for disaster goin'. The s(um8ags will see turnout gear or a fire truck and associate it with the "5-0" coming. Going back to the equipment they will carry, does anyone know at what temperature an OC canister will explode?

John, great post and I respect your position. However, volunteer EMS is more than just a volunteer service and neighbors helping neighbors. It is an emergency medical service and regardless of whether crews are paid or volunteer, there is an obligation for the service to respond in a timely fashion to all calls. Does this mean you should be donating more time and energy or making an even greater contribution? Of course not! It means that the SERVICE should be taking whatever steps necessary to insure that its constituents receive the service they expect and deserve. The public should know who provides their EMS service - but they shouldn't find it out after dialing 911 when they need an ambulance. The standard of care in NYS is not different if you are operating in a paid service or a volunteer one so why should volunteers get a pass on meeting the same response time expectations as their career partners? If you want to give the public a referendum on what type of service they want to receive that's fine. But as Alpha said honesty is key and the agency must be willing to admit their limitations. Then a well-informed public will be responsible and not a small group within the agency.

It is f-ing hilarious to watch but it still a ridiculous notion that in order to use a device you first have to be a victim of it. Just wait until someone uses the pepper spray - you'll experience it just fine cause it doesn't discriminate and the usually overzealous sprayer doesn't let up until the can is empty!!! As 20y2 said, we don't have to get shot to carry guns!

I know you didn't mean "own" literally. It's just that alot of people run around making statements about this one is in charge or that one is the supreme high exalted ruler without anything to substantiate it. As a result alot of people come into emergency services with a flawed understanding of who is in fact responsible for what. That's my point. Bob, I certainly understand your frustration. I have friends that will never return to their careers because of accidents so I appreciate your position. When safety is a factor, by all means close it down. But when EMS leaves with the extricated victim, it's time to pack up the show. There's just no need to keep lanes closed longer than necessary. Why keep multiple resources tied up at an accident scene that is just waiting for a tow truck? It's the life cycle of an accident scene. As for accident investigations, they account for probably 1-2% of all accidents so the closing of roads is reserved for when it is absolutely necessary and someone else already covered those situations. I think we all agree that safety is first and foremost!

Today marks the 12th anniversary of the bombing at the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City. We should never forget this senseless act of domestic terrorism that killed 168 people including 19 children and left over 800 people injured. Complacency kills! Don't forget this or any of the other events that stand to remind us that there is most definitely a war on terrorism going on!

There are a lot of different perspectives on this and it will probably continue to fester even after we're all retired. First off, I'm all for closing the road (completely or by lane) when necessary. My tactic of choice was to close the road for just enough traffic to back up requiring everyone to slow way down and then reopen it. It was the perfect amount of time to set up a proper flare pattern without getting creamed too. But when you're sitting on the shoulder or off the road completely and traffic is creeping by is it still necessary to take out a lane? Perhaps, perhaps not. Inconveniencing the motorist is only an incidental concern but when you take a lane and traffic backs up you run the very real risk of additional car accidents further down the road. People get pi$$y and road rage problems crop up. Cars break down or overheat. So, if you can keep the traffic moving to avoid these problems, let's do it. With all the dual responses to parkway/highway jobs, you wind up with an awful lot of apparatus just sitting around. If one piece is needed to safeguard the scene send everyone else back. Whatever you do, and I've harped on this before, don't stop on the northbound side if the accident is southbound. Isn't that why you have a dual response in the first place - so you don't have to stop on the opposite side and cross traffic? As for the FD "owning the scene" and the PD "owning the road", can you please cite what law or regulation states that? I hear it all the time and think it does us all a great disservice. I don't own anything - I have a responsibility to safeguard the scene, investigate and report the accident, etc. I have also been to hundreds of accidents - even accidents with injuries - where there was no fire response. It worked. I've been to lots of accidents with the FD and those worked too. It shouldn't be the tired ol' "I'm in charge" nonsense. Let's work together so we can get off the scene sooner. After all, we're all supposed to be on the same side!

I think NIMS needs to be READ! It's so much more than just ICS training and filling out a few checklists saying you're compliant. Having read it, and the proposed revision due out this summer, I found that it describes steps to better prepare for things like this Nor'Easter. Imagine this: preparedness, training, exercises, communications, resource management, command and control, public information all outlined in a single document that we can all use a the framework for future responses. If you read all the complaints about the response to the storm or other incidents of late you'll see a startling similarity: problems with communications, resource management, command and control, public information, and preparedness. Shocking, I know. It's so frustrating when you hear people with the responsibility for this saying, we took ICS training so we're compliant. It's painfully obvious that they have no idea what the concept is all about. It's even more frustrating to hear that municipalities and/or agencies are completely ignoring it and maintaining the status quo. If ever an incident called for unified command this was it. There should have been a clearly identifiable command post with representatives from PD, FD, EMS, DPW, municipal authorities, ConEd, and support staff. Resources checking in at staging should have been properly briefed by someone designated by command to do so and their assignments should have been reported to and tracked by the command post. We talk alot about ICS and who's in command but what about who's doing resource tracking/management? And nobody should have been allowed to work in a potentially hazardous environment without proper communications equipment and personal protective equipment. First off, as someone else said already, these weren't water rescues. They were water evacuations - nobody was being dragged downstream by raging flood waters and only holding onto a tree limb for dear life. They were standing on their porches waiting for us to pick them up because they failed to heed the recommendation to evacuate. Hmm... People chose not to evacuate before the storm and are now criticizing the emergency response. Interesting, but probably a thread all its own. This is not a dispatch failure. It is a command and resource management failure. If you don't like the word "failure" substitute one that you find less objectionable. I'm not criticizing any Chief, department, or agency. I'm criticizing the SYSTEM. It quite obviously failed if there was such a delayed response to an emergency, the working structure fire. Yes, conditions were horrible. Yes, there were many competing calls for service. But there was only one call that actually rose the level of REQUIRING a fire response and that was the house fire. Had people sat down and planned for this over the weekend (or in the six weeks since the last bad flooding) maybe things could have been smoother for all involved. I'm not suggesting that the outcome at the fire would have been any different! I'm just saying that there probably wouldn't be so many comments about problems with communications, coordination, etc. here if we had done a better job preparing.

How about educating them? How about directing them to programs about flood mitigation? If there is no program, someone could apply for a grant to start a homeowner guide to flood prevention, mitigation, recovery. We pay a lot of lip service to the dreaded masses we serve but do we go back after the fact? Obviously this can't be done during the pumpout but when things go back to "normal" it could be tremendous public service and great PR for the agency. Failing that - how about we invest in a whole boatload of pumps and rent them out every time heavy rains are predicted! Early retirement, anyone? Just a coupla thoughts!

That's a good one!

Is the street name good enough? I don't think I can tell you the building number but that's gotta be Schroeder Street. Now, where's my flashlight!

If those are two dams being overtopped in the picture, my colleagues in the DEP tell me that is a major hazard. Overtopping can undermine the integrity of the dam and cause it to fail. Obviously a bad thing! Is that really a sewage pipe? Where's it coming out of, Washington DC? It's HUGE! Is that the same "creek" that a woman fell into from a porch last month?

Oh sure, start the age jokes again! If you're gonna do that at least increase the font size! You're absolutely right, there is no quick fix but we could make a lot of progress if someone set a standard and dared everyone to meet it. Maybe reward successful partners with a case of EMTBravo flashlights??? Pity we're so bassackwards! Look at how freakin' organized they are out West and it makes you miserable. (not to say that they're perfect but they sure do have alot of our problems addressed!)

BUMP! Weather permitting there should be a really big turnout of all different types of apparatus/equipment/vehicles... and of course helicopters!!!

It's long overdue and should absolutely be a requirement! We take for granted the power of moving water and grossly underestimate the danger it poses everytime we drive, walk, or otherwise traverse moving flood water!

Aww, tell 'em to shut up and wait for it!!! Just kidding! Actually, some form of centralized communications and coordination is long overdue.

I hope all the flood prone areas get something so they can stop using a front end loader to evacuation people. Or, if they are going to keep doing that they could at least get PFD's for everyone they carry! Every time I see the pictures of a half dozen people in the bucket of a loader I shudder at the thought of what would happen if one was to fall out... and either be carried away by the flowing water or run over by the damn thing!

Home rule definitely has its disadvantages in situations like this but couldn't the county say... to be dispatched by the County, or to be a signatory on one of the various mutual aid plans, to receive any County training/equipment/aid/etc. ... you must comply with the recommendations described by RWC and others. Overcoming home rule and its problems notwithstanding, if you call mutual aid it's your party - you have to make sure that everyone can communicate. There are enough options out there today that there could have been a composite communications system established (with Field Comm, three portables on the table in front of a dispatcher, etc.) to prevent the problems that oneeye experienced. There is no reason at all that there should have been a command, coordination and communications vacuum last night! The reality is that incidents and issues like this are regional and require a regional approach to a solution. They don't lend themselves to local or agency level solutions - that's how we wound up in this mess in the first place. We also have to learn to dispense with the day to day structure of operations and get into "disaster mode" - there was so much irrelevant chatter on the radios last night it is a wonder anyone was able communicate effectively.

Wouldn't it be cheaper just to expand hunting season and issue special permits for areas of high traffic and large deer populations?

With US Air you have a better chance of getting there and a better chance of not seeing your luggage!!! Good luck and have a safe trip!

That's hysterical - thanks for the laugh!!! I'm just kidding and MFY knows that!!! He can tell me where to go anytime!!! And having flown over the hill above McGurty's house I can attest to the wind up there!

I'd say they get a fair amount of training and "drills"... 287 Propane Tanker - White Plains Central Avenue/I-87 Gasoline Tanker - Yonkers Route 9A Gasoline Tanker - Hawthorne Route 9A Gasoline Tanker - Briarcliff I-95 Gasoline Tanker - Stamford Route 9A Gasoline Tanker - Ossining (this one didn't burn - just overturned) Route ??? Propane Tanker - Bedford/Somers (overturn)

The whole nightmare was in Wappingers Falls and the Dutchess County court system. The Assistant DA successfully sued Sharpton, Maddox, and the other stooge whose name escapes me now for defamation and libel/slander. There was a whole bunch of bumper stickers out at the time that said "I live in Wappingers Falls and I didn't do it". The entire case was a scam but ever since we've had to deal with the rhetoric and racism of Al Sharpton.

That's the way I've always understood it as well. However, the Big Red Machine (FDNY) regularly puts their FAST teams to work at jobs because they're there and then they replace the FAST team. It's an interesting call - the IC puts the FAST team to work to PREVENT a situation requiring the FAST team in the FAST/RIT capacity. Maybe stretching a second/third line will safeguard the crews already in the building so they don't get trapped or caught in a bad spot. Maybe additional venting or whatever prevents a backdraft/flashover that would injure the guys and necessitate the FAST team doing FAST work. Looks like a judgement call - as long as the FAST team is promptly replaced (which may be an issue outside NYC - response times, etc.) it isn't a bad one, right? This is of course unless the replacement FAST team stops at the accident with extrication on the way to the fire.... JUST KIDDING!!!! You know this also shows that we don't use the staging concept effectively. If you kept a contingency force (say an engine and ladder) in staging for use if conditions change or whatever, the IC wouldn't have to reassign the FAST crew from the FAST assignment to another assignment. I've always said that we (in all the emergency services) constantly operate with JUST ENOUGH RESOURCES to get by and we seldom prepare for contingencies. Call the extra unit(s) early and hope you don't need them instead of using just enough and wishing you had more.

English is also the INTERNATIONAL language of aviation - worldwide! It was decided a long time ago that it would be too dangerous to have pilots or air traffic controllers up there speaking different languages so they are required by the FAA, EAA, etc. to speak English. (shocking that I would come up with this trivia, isn't it? Alpha, you're absolutely right that foreign language skills don't mean better care or worse care/service BUT - even someone who is able to geby by with English (instead of their native language) may not be able to effectively convey a medical complaint, signs symptoms etc. so being able to speak a second language is a definite plus. In a crisis, someone is also likely to lapse into their most familar language which may not be English. Thank you EFD for finally putting to rest the notion that the whole test is given in Spanish... That was getting old!