helicopper

EMS does not take training seriously - you're right! "Very easy", "only pre-requisite is walking", and yet it takes 12-16 hours of training to perform the skills! How many EMS providers train for low angle rescue? Forget high angle/confined area/haz-mat where training may be much longer. Four nights or two days and people can't even get this basic training? It's pathetic!

FYI, for all you communications oriented types!

Are you arguing with yourself or what?

APATHY and COMPLACENCY = someone else will do that highly involved technical rescue, "I'm just a volunteer". I've heard that "I'm a volunteer" line many times in my career and it always centered around someone trying to justify why they're not as well trained as they could/should be. EMS has and always will be the bastard step child of emergency services. It is treated by most munipalities with benign neglect. EMS never gets the type of funding to obtain specialized training or pay people to go it and with so many EMS services operating solely on reimbursements from insurance companies, they're lucky to be able to fuel the ambulance. Then there is the assertion that this function is a FIRE function and that function is a POLICE function so police and fire monopolize those functions regardless of the fact that they may be focused on extricating an injured person from an environment - where medical treatment is clearly indicated. In other parts of the country, the medic is trained to go in with police/fire and do their job so why not here? As ALS said, cause of all the sandboxes we have to worry about. It sucks and shouldn't be this way but I don't think we're going to see any change - at least not in our lifetimes!

I think that the IRS, Department of Labor, OSHA, and a few other acronym agencies have an opinion on this as well. An agency can't just say that we're giving our members a stipend ($$$$) and not expect the IRS to have an opinion on it. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the opinion has been if you're receiving compensation (vague enough to include all that you describe above) you're being PAID and that is taxable income. For all these agencies that tout being volunteer but provide all these "incentives", it's simply hypocritical. You're paying people in one way or another to perform a service. That's not volunteer! In most cases these solutions are just bandaids and really don't solve the underlying problem of not having enough volunteers. At some point, the root cause has to be addressed and that, as so many have already indicated in this and other threads, is that most people don't have time to train and volunteer anymore.

Completely different example. You're a salaried employee authorized to work from home. That's vastly different than a civil service employee who is leaving a job site/work assignment to do a fire/EMS call. Your employer expects you to complete your work - regardless of whether or not you went on a fire/EMS call. If that means you work 10 hours tomorrow to make up for it, so be it. You're not getting overtime for that. I guarantee that a municipal worker who went on a call from 1000-1200 is STILL punching out at 1500 and going home. He's not saying, well, I didn't finish my work today so I'll stay late and finish since I took in that fire/EMS call. If he stays, he's looking for overtime. If the fire/EMS calls can't be covered without taking other government services offline or away from their regular assignments - there is a problem that needs to be fixed!

There was a sentinel case regarding law enforcement and the duty to act in a domestic violence case back in the 80's (I think). It was Thurman v. Torrington and the City of Torrington (Connecticut) took it on the chin for flagrantly failing to protect the plaintiff. It changed the way domestic violence incidents are handled nationwide. As for similar cases in the fire service, I'm not personally aware of them but I'm sure someone else on this forum is!

The numbers are controlled by the County's fleet management. The majority of vehicle numbers are in the 1400 and 1600 series but specialty vehicles are given other numbers by fleet management. Who knows what their numbering plan is!

4188 is just another of the County's fleet numbers that was assigned to Public Safety way back when we got the first 4188 as an ESU truck. Most patrol cars are still in the usual range of numbers. This will be primarily for patrol division supervisors and special events - it's been outfitted with an Odyssey "command" package (map tray, console, radios, computer, etc.) in the back so it can serve as a field command post until the big toys arrive. Aside from the Odyssey box, I have no idea who did the rest of the conversion. I doubt they're going to use it as an everyday vehicle - we tend to put a LOT of miles on our vehicles.

All true, all good points. BUT! Seriously, though. For a major incident, the standard practice should be to tie units/agencies/frequencies together for ease of communications rather than have 20-30 resources all trying to find the right frequency while responding or operating. At a simple car accident, YES, you can have the 2-3 resources change to a common channel. Don't forget that Liberty Lines is on the trunked system too. When you call for a bus for rehab/evacuation, they should be able to come up on a trunked frequency so you can direct them and maintain accountability of requested resources. That's the beauty of a trunked system. I saw it in operation in Florida - they had the system all figured out. EVERY AGENCY in the county was on it so if you needed FD, PD, EMS, DOT, Bus all at the same scene, they would all be placed in the same talkgroup for the duration of the incident. It was pretty impressive!

The FD should be able to conduct its "hearing" and "convict" him of violating the SOP's (as someone else suggested for conduct unbecoming if nothing else). They could then vote to remove him. It's not like a civil service position and I'd guess that he doesn't have the funds to mount a big legal challenge against the FD if they did boot him. What happens if he gets (not that he will) an adjournment in contemplation of dismissal or his record is sealed as a youthful offender? Then the FD can't rely on a "conviction" to remove him. Mind you I'm referring to his theft from the FD not his other legal issues. No point delaying the inevitable - gotta get rid of the bad apples!

Wow, that's some perspective. I wonder how many FD's in the region are able to turn out 36 qualified FF's for a fire during a weekday? Or for that matter any time! Thanks for the clarification.

Thanks for the synopsis. I knew my recollection was fuzzy but was too lazy to actually go back and search for each post so I blended them together. Be that as it may, it is patently absurd to have different standards. The fire doesn't care if you're paid/volunteer/combination or if you responded on a green truck or a red one (sorry, I know that's gonna start another debate about the colors of freakin' apparatus). The fire is going to destroy people's homes or businesses and do its best to kill you if you don't respect it. The more time you give it, the more of an adversary it's going to become. They may not have specified a time but they did specify a distance and you can pretty easily work out a time based on those distances - which are pretty short too - 1.5 miles for an engine, sheesh). As for the 1/12, 1/36 standard. I think they're creating a depth to insure that the IC actually winds up with the 12 recommended when the call comes in. Three rostered people for every one position required for the job. That's much the same way that NDMS rosters disaster medical assistance teams. They recommend 3-4 people for each of the 35 (or so) positions required for deployment. The problem is we all know that volunteer agencies have two numbers - the number of "rostered" active members and the number of actual warm bodies with a pulse that show up when the tones go off. I've heard pretty scary numbers from some agencies, "oh we have 100 members - on paper but only 15 are really active". You know the BS. I think it is time for some changes - waiting 10 minutes to see if an agency can respond is irresponsible.

I thought one of the benefits of trunking was the ability for dispatch to create incident specific talkgroups so you could put everyone (police, fire, EMS, DOT, tow trucks, etc - in an ideal world) on the same group so we can all communicate effectively? Did we go a different route?

I know this isn't up to you and my comments are not directed at you... Why on earth would anyone wait 10 minutes to find out if a department is even ABLE to respond to a call? I remember EMS tones going out again and again long before Putnam County 911 was formed so this is not a new problem. If I remember Barry's comments about ISO and such, the recommendation was 12 FF / 1 IC on scene in 8 minutes or less. In this model, they're not even responding in eight minutes or less. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing fire. I think it's absurd to poll for a patrol to respond to a law enforcement job too. What happens if Johnny or Roy gets to the firehouse and mans the base radio? Does the clock stop? What if they still can't get enough people to roll the apparatus? How much time elapses before someone takes the bull by the horn and asks if they're going or not? Great point! Once a chief signs on, why can't at least some of the other officers make sure the apparatus is getting out? They can drive can't they? And don't misunderstand me - if it can be done with volunteers GREAT. If it can't something needs to be done and that may or may not be hiring career personnel. I think it's just as ridiculous for a single FF to be responding on the engine with absolutely no idea who may or may not be coming to help him.

There will be an I-400 Advanced ICS Course at the Putnam County Training and Operations Center on February 26 and 27. Course Announcement and Registration Information Info on this two day course:

There will be an I-300 ICS Intermediate Course at the Orange County Training Center beginning on March 25th through March 27th. Course Announcement and Registration Info We deal with more and more expanding incidents making this training invaluable! For those not familiar, this is not just a rehash of the basic class. It really focuses on planning for ongoing operations and development of more complex organizations. In addition to being required by NIMS, this is the prerequisite for specific position training (IC, Section Chief, Unit Leaders, etc.).

There will be an I-300 ICS Intermediate Course at the Cornwall Fire Department beginning on March 1st. It is a weekend based course and is over in just two weekends. Announcement and Registration Information We deal with more and more expanding incidents making this training invaluable! For those not familiar, this is not just a rehash of the basic class. It really focuses on planning for ongoing operations and development of more complex organizations. In addition to being required by NIMS, this is the prerequisite for specific position training (IC, Section Chief, Unit Leaders, etc.).

There will be an I-300 ICS Intermediate Course at the Putnam County Training and Operations Center beginning on February 2nd. It is a weekend based course and is over in just two weekends. Announcement and Registration Information We deal with more and more expanding incidents making this training invaluable! For those not familiar, this is not just a rehash of the basic class. It really focuses on planning for ongoing operations and development of more complex organizations. In addition to being required by NIMS, this is the prerequisite for specific position training (IC, Section Chief, Unit Leaders, etc.).

I knew you were looking at some angle!!! LOL The County and some municipalities do issue press passes (I think Yonkers does as well) but I'm not sure how stringent the criteria are.

That is the exception to the rule though. More often than not, for non-violent/non-federal charges ICE is just too busy to come out. Most of my experience with situations like this pre-dates 9/11 but back then INS wouldn't come out for much of anything. Local charges, forged identification including social security cards, and INS said "thanks, but we're not coming". Pity every contact like the above isn't handled the same way.

Ah, the technology generation. Be happy you could send him an e-mail. You might have had to stop at the firehouse, when someone was there, and pick up an application. Then you'd have to fill it out with a pen, and mail it with a stamp and a big blue box on the corner. Then wait for them to deliver it, have it opened, again when someone is at the house, and then left in a mailbox until the right person comes into act on it. We're a very impatient society - we don't want to wait for anything. Ex-2114 is absolutely right about being patient and it being a virtue!!! Good luck!

"Weed 'em out" - that's funny!!! Test 'em all, annually or as often as necessary to insure that the public and ourselves are well protected. I don't want a drunk/stoned FF/PO/EMT coming to assist me so I have no problem with the testing!

I noticed the same thing on that hill on I-78. That must be something experimental 'cause I haven't seen in any other places. There must be some sort of spray system from the curbline/guard rail to get it out onto the roadway. Pretty cool.

Given all these discussions in other threads, I figured I start a survey to see what the real sentiment is. Before you answer, the premise for the survey is that the development of these regional services is based upon sound managerial and operational practices, the system is properly funded, mechanisms are established for volunteer components of the fire and EMS systems, and positions are eliminated only through attrition or reorganization - no layoffs. What's your vote?