helicopper

A single crime, even a robbery in a sleepy bedroom community, is not indicative of a crime wave so I don't think people in Hastings need to start battening down the hatches. Reasonable security measures and awareness of your surroundings is a good idea no matter where you are whether Hastings or Hoboken. There are relationships between crime and the economy for sure but even with that, one reported crime is a statistical anomaly. You also have to consider the nature of the crimes. Most "home invasion" robberies are targeted victims chosen for very specific reasons so the jurisdiction is not the deciding factor. Now, the stupidity factor knows no geographical boundaries and that exists EVERYWHERE.

Nope your eyes are right on. The guys from Station 10 confirmed the job as the door rolled up and were without a doubt: first due! (That's gotta skew response time averages. )

So what should they do without? - Space to transport prisoners - Cages - Computers - O2 and First Aid Kits - LPR's - Radio Consoles and Emergency Switch sets - Shotgun - Patrol Rifle - Partner You still don't seem to get that there is little relationship between the vehicles operated and the ability to hire (or maintain) personnel.

I'd rather see neither happen. Either way the net gain is a loss and a strain on fireground operations. FDNY fought to achieve the staffing they have and they shouldn't reduce it voluntarily to satisfy a political agenda. There is always community backlash about firehouse closures that helps their cause and I bet there would be no such outcry if the company stayed open but with reduced staffing. They won't be as effective or efficient but the community won't see that. I understand and support the position that neither is a viable option. I'm surprised anyone in the fire service advocates voluntarily reducing staffing on apparatus.

Have you ever spent eight hours, five days a week in a police car? Given all that has to be packed into a police car and the demanding operations they face, there aren't a whole lot of options. And, since these are a cop's "office" for eight hours a day, shouldn't they have at least a little bit of comfort? Granted that in today's police packages and with all the equipment jammed in them there isn't room for the cop anymore but I can't imagine how it would be in a smaller vehicle. Municipalities don't pay $4.00 a gallon. They buy in bulk and don't pay taxes so the price is far less than that. Also, most budgets are constructed so that equipment/supplies (fuel) and personnel are different sections of the budget so you can't just say we're spending less on fuel and hiring more cops.

So New York City should lower it's standards because other cities (none of whom are comparable to NYC in any objective measure) staff the apparatus with fewer FF? If FDNY concedes this and drops a member on truck this year, what happens next year when the budget has a deficit? Do they then drop to four? And the year after that? No good comes of compromises like that. Time and time again the politicians demonstrate that they have remarkably short and self-serving memories.

This is not unique to Yonkers. I've heard about a number of communities that don't want to negotiate at all. They simply want concessions and give-backs.

Happens all the time. Must have been a really slow news day!

Would you care to elaborate on your comment? Do you have information to support this allegation or is it just speculation? According to the story, the fire chief asked for assistance. Why would there be an issue if that's the case?

Treat the patient. Is there a complaint? Are their any physical findings during the exam that warrant treatment or transportation? This is like saying everyone in an accident should go to the hospital. We all know that the vast majority don't go to the hospital and of those that do, only a small percentage go ALS. Don't treat the mechanism. Treat the patient.

1. These troopers may be volunteer FF. We don't know. 2. There's a big difference between assisting an FD that doesn't have enough personnel on scene by supporting exterior operations and entering the building that's on fire. SInce the former is the subject of this discussion, we shouldn't be comparing the latter as the two scenarios are apples and oranges. 3. The troopers were not freelancing. They were operating under the direction and supervision of the Fire Chief so all your complaints can/should be directed to him. We debate a lot of incidents where there is a perceived conflict between duties and actions but I think in this case the debate is misguided. If a fire chief asked me to help at the scene of a major incident and the assistance he requested wasn't going to put me in harm's way, why should I say no???

As I understand it, they're marketed as Less-Lethal and are never referred to as non-lethal. The comparison is to a firearm so Taser's are less-lethal than being shot with a handgun and that's hard to dispute. I don't think anyone says Taser's are without potential complications but I firmly believe it give cops on the ground one more option before resorting to a firearm. When I started, I was given a baton and a firearm. Not a whole lot of options. Today, cops have OC (in many forms - spray, foam, projectiles, etc.), baton, Taser, bean-bag rounds, and finally the firearm. That's a whole lot better than it was 20 years ago. But, as hookman said, don't fight with the police and you won't get Tazed or shot!

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For the purposes of clarity and to avoid speculating on what the law actually states, below is the statute pertaining to assault on an EMS worker: It is also possible that the charge filed was Assault in the 2nd Degree, also a felony, and that is quoted below: The specific charge depends on the circumstances, the suspect's mindset and other factors. Given the nature of the charge, obviously one of these sections applied.

It never ceases to amaze me that someone will try to turn any discussion into a career vs. volunteer pissing match. This has absolutely nothing to do with career FD's or the NYS police and fire pension system. LOSAP's are not managed by the State nor are they regulated by state statute so there is really no comparison. Who controls the LOSAP program?

Should be quite a sight. The shuttle on the back of a 747 and escort aircraft coming up the Hudson at 1500 feet. Wow! Looking forward to it!!!

MODERATOR NOTE: This thread is being carefully monitored as complaints have been received from both sides of the argument. There have been some potentially inflammatory comments but the overwhelming majority of contributors to the thread have argued the facts and engaged in a healthy debate. That is encouraged and I thank you for that. One thing that will not be tolerated is personal attacks or sniping at each other. This is not about any one member of this forum or the fire service. This is about issues within the fire service. Be professional, be respectful, and focus on the issue not each other. Thank you.

We should all hold ourselves to a higher standard, regardless of the legal consequences. The human consequences of life safety are much more significant and should be our first concern and highest priority responsibility. Well said!!! I think corrective (not necessarily punitive which has the connotation of punishment) measures and training do reduce the problems we're talking about. Discipline also starts with the individual. If you're going to flagrantly violate rules, laws, common sense, and the actions of the member in front of you, you're on a slippery slope. As for the lane change reference, I think I understand your point but it's apples and oranges. Passing in a no-passing zone, speeding (double the limit no less), and blowing a red light are vastly different than changes lanes without signalling. Doesn't make it right but I think it is a poor comparison.

And the Westchester DA's Office will not prosecute reckless driving solely on the basis of a speeding offense. There have to be other violations that support a charge of reckless driving. Reference: VTL 1180, VTL 1212

Not sure what you mean with your moot point reference. The law doesn't specify a maximum speed. If your SOP does, that is the standard your agency holds you to. Keep in mind that due regard is not strictly limited to speed. If you are driving 25 in a 30 but the conditions aren't safe to do so and you have an accident you failed to operate with due regard. Everyone seems to be hung up on numbers but they're only one potential part of the puzzle. I think the comments made by radio also helped convince the jury that there was an issue in this particular case.

The law quoted in that policy statement apply to all emergency vehicles. The policy statement applies only to EMS and within the EMS community it carries the weight of law as it is issued pursuant to the public health law.

Thanks, Barry. The County PD had an ESU long before it had SWAT (SRT). This is just a new vehicle for them.

ESU

Why?

Personnel and aircraft (helicopters) for suppression and command/control/surveillance.