helicopper

With all due respect and fully understanding why you made this comment given the comments previously, can we please take this to another thread.

And as a no-fault state, your insurance will get tagged also!

Excellent points! The one fallacy in our traditional approach is that the fire chief is "in charge" of non-fire resources. That is simply not the case making unified command the best alternative. True, you don't need EMS in unified command if they're only using a couple of single resources. Just out of curiosity, where was the LZ for this particular accident?

Wow, that's a beautiful old building. Pity it fell into such disrepair.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Be thankful the laws are not strictly enforced or there would be a lot of unhappy people out there. Why should we? Because you're setting an example for people as a first responder. Also, great points as usual, bnechis!

ALSfirefighter made the point but I'll reaffirm it here. The fire chief at an incident like this was one of the IC's. The State Police supervisor was also an IC as was the ranking member of EMS, DOT if they were there, etc. The fire chief had no authority over the State Police, DOT, or EMS (in a non-FD based EMS area) so it really was unified command. When properly using ICS, the IC is in charge of all the resources operating and that's clearly not the case in NY where PD, FD, EMS, and other agencies all have responsibility and authority. As for closing lanes or whatever else for safety, anyone can do that - the HELP truck, the tow truck, the PD, the FD, whomever. That doesn't make them the IC! We need to start using ICS in the manner intended instead of sticking blindly to single command. Still not taking or making anything personal!

So if this law is passed you won't know whether you're looking at the front of a firefighters personal vehicle or the back of an emergency vehicle. That makes sense! If we're going to use blue as emergency lights now, it's time to do away with them as a courtesy light. Make all volunteer responders use green or none at all to distinguish emergency vehicles from the rest.

What is meant by "auto launch"??? Is a medevac automatically requested for some jobs based on dispatch information?

I assume that you're talking about your personal vehicle so please send me a copy of your drivers license and I'll send you the ticket for illegal lights! Why is everyone so worried about the law when it is routinely and flagrantly ignored by virtually everyone including the cops who could enforce it?

Thanks, I was informed by another member that 8's are utility units.

Then take the hint and SLOW DOWN!!!

Given the nature of the accident there was a lot to investigate so six hours is not all that uncommon - unfortunately. The scene needs to be photographed, everything measured, including tire marks and they can be hundreds of feet long sometimes (times 4 per vehicle). Sadly, as much as technology improves to make the job easier, it still takes time. On the subject of who the IC was, I'm teeing this up for DISCUSSION! It has nothing to do with the Put Valley FD, its chief or anyone else involved in last night's incident. The question was simply brought on by a post about last night but it could be asked anywhere at any time. If you take my post personally and get defensive you're missing the point! How do you arrive at the conclusion that the fire chief is the IC at this incident? Once the hazards were mitigated and victims removed, the scene properly belonged to the State Police for investigation. In reality, the fire chief could have left once those issues were resolved. Scenes such as this can often become or at least be considered crime scenes so why jump to the conclusion that the fire chief is the IC? I don't understand why we cling to the perception that the fire chief is the IC at every scene he/she shows up at? We perpetuate the myth that the fire chief is in charge of everything exacerbating the rift between the disciplines when there are times that the FD is clearly a supporting agency and not a lead agency. Why do we do that? The State Police clearly had a responsibility at this incident, they have jurisdiction, they decided what roads/lanes would be closed and for how long, they determined when vehicles could be towed, etc. If these are not the actions of the IC what are they? Let me again state that this has nothing to do with last night specifically or the Put Valley FD! As another member likes to say, don't take it personally! Alright, let the discussion commence! But please don't just tell me that it's this way because it's always been this way. That's getting pretty old! Finally, a question that will undoubtedly have a much more simple answer. What's 24-8-1?

ditto

I've heard of civilian vehicles having issues with emergency lights (color, use, number, etc.) but not an actual emergency vehicle. Why don't we just eliminate blue and green "courtesy" lights and put blue on the back of all emergency vehicles?

Does anyone know if any of the other bikes traveling with the deceased bothered to stop after the crash? It won't be Put Valley's last either the way they drive on the TSP!

Nope, just an engine company and I think they pull double duty as a Haz-Mat support company as well. Right guys??? How about the old (and unfortunately abandoned) house on Vineyard Avenue? Are there any other defunct stations in the City? Nobody has posted station 12 on Fortfield Avenue yet either...

Date: 04/10/08 Time: approximately 1900 hours (?) Location: TSP northbound lanes MM 24.9 (between Bryant Pond and Peekskill Hollow Roads) Frequency: numerous Units Operating: NY State Police, Putnam Valley FD and VAC, DOT HELP Trucks Description Of Incident: Fatal Motorcycle MVA Writer: Chris192 Two victims (same motorcycle) one DOA, the other medevac to WMC. Reports are that another vehicle ran over one of the victims after the motorcycle wiped out. NB lanes closed for AI at Bryant Pond Road. Sporadic closures and lane restrictions on southbound side. According to media reports, the motorcycle was one of a group of motorcycles operating erratically and at a high rate of speed. Thanks to those who sent additional info. http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article.../804110418/1020

Is it true that these are required on all hats and helmets?

Intermediate ICS for Expanding Incidents (I –300) Westchester County DES Training Center 4 Dana Road Valhalla, N.Y. 10595 Monday, May 5th , 2008 8:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. Tuesday, May 6th , 2008 8:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. Wednesday, May 7th , 2008 8:30 a.m. – 4:30 p.m. I_300AnnouncementWestchesterMay081.pdf

Thanks for all the responses! OK, since you're chock full of answers today, Remember585, Peekskill is well within 25 NM of WMC. Was another ship used for this call?

Effective Communication (G - 242) Westchester County Department of Emergency Services 4 Dana Road Valhalla, NY Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. Wednesday, May 14, 2008 8:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. Announcement_Effective_Comm_R2_May13and14_08.pdf

That would be a question best posed to DES.

Leadership and Influence (G - 240) Westchester County Department of Emergency Services 4 Dana Road Valhalla, NY Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. Friday, May 16, 2008 8:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. Announcement_LeadershipandInfl_R2_May15and16_08.pdf

Decision Making and Problem Solving (G - 241) Westchester County Department of Emergency Services 4 Dana Road Valhalla, NY Monday, May 12, 2008 8:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. AnnouncementDecMakiandProbSolv_R2_May12_08.pdf