helicopper

All, Two threads were started this afternoon regarding an incident reported by an EMS worker from a local commercial provider. These threads have been removed from public view and are under review by the staff for conformance to our forum guidelines. Please do not post about this incident until a determination is made about the appropriateness of this discussion within EMTBravo. Thank you for your cooperation. helicopper on behalf of the EMTBravo team

McDonalds. Locations around the world.

And it only applied to the State Police. Local agencies could continue to operate unmarked vehicles at their agency's discretion.

I believe that this IS an option if the county chooses to run additional courses. The departments could work at the county level to accomplish that according to the DHSES OFPC report.

Some interesting points from the report: NYS has 1830 fire departments? That's crazy. Per capita, that's one fire department for every 9,500 people in the state (approximately). But wait, NYC, has only one FD and the majority of the population. So backing that out it is really an entire fire department for every 5,200 people in the state (approximately). If each department has a budget of $100K, which is not a lot and probably captures a reasonable average between larger downstate departments and smaller, underfunded departments, the total cost of fire service in NYS is 183 MILLION dollars. And we still can't get a full response on every initial call. Wow! Back to the original point of this thread. If this sentence started without career, it would be a great line. Career FF have statutory minimum training despite all the AHJ and home rule comments made previously. It is definitely a double standard and should be fixed.

This is a fascinating thread and it is great to see such a discussion returning to EMTBravo. One thing that piqued my interest is the issue of training availability and provision by local entities and/or fire districts. This link will take you to the OFPC report on training: http://www.dhses.ny.gov/ofpc/training/documents/2012-legislative-report.pdf Of particular interest was (page 3): It would appear that agencies can work with their county to provide additional training at the county's expense. If the county is unable or unwilling to provide funding for that training, the district could probably arrange with the county to provide officially sanctioned supplemental training that would meet everyone's needs.

The Statute (General Municipal Law 122-:

That video simply highlights the fact that we have no EMS system in Westchester. We have a patchwork of different agencies doing different things with different resources hoping for a positive outcome and despite the best intentions of the people involved, we are nowhere near a solution. A comprehensive approach is needed to address the problem and institute a true system. If the six villages in Greenburgh, as an example, continue operating on their own little islands, they will fail. The notion that Irvington will put on per diem personnel for 451 calls a year at a cost of $288 per shift is just not sustainable. If the six villages all do that the cost is prohibitive. But a town-wide solution would be much more cost effective based on the call volume. There was also a lot of misinformation in that presentation. "Private services do not do emergency care, they do transport only". Really? Other assertions about the law were questionable and hopefully someone reviews them for IVAC and the village board. It also baffles me that anyone is still proposing that DPW or other municipal agencies provide drivers during the day instead of fixing the broken EMS system.

Then tell us what your point was in your comparison between Carrier Dome and Yankee Stadium. I think we see the big picture quite clearly. You've had members with a cumulative century of experience responding but you think we're missing the point or not seeing the big picture.

Not attacking you or your wording at all. Your concepts are flawed and that's what many members have been trying to share with you. Why would the chief of a busy VAC want or need to volunteer in NYC? Shorter training = cutting something that has been deemed important out? Why would anyone advocate that? So now you need more supervisors and/or FTO's to oversee volunteers in the system? Why not use the supervisors and FTO's to staff more units themselves? There isn't enough FDNY coverage because they have to look at the averages and staff according to what makes the most sense. Hot summer afternoons may tax that staffing level but you can't staff or budget based on "what if" scenarios. Two extra buses per borough will not do much to reduce the backlog on most days. You could probably use 10 and still wind up waiting sometimes.

I'm not quite sure what your point is but Yankee Stadium has dedicated, contractual EMS personnel on site so they're not a drain on the 911 system during games.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you suggesting that every call for an ambulance be dispatched as a possible heart attack because they may not have symptoms yet? That's why EMD was created. To appropriately triage calls even when the person calling doesn't know exactly what the problem is. Is it foolproof? No, but it's a lot better than sending ambulances screaming around for non-emergencies or missing a stroke because the caller didn't know how to describe it properly.

The only difference is volume? On what are you basing this judgment? FDNY trains their personnel to respond to the multitude of hazards they may be confronted with. How many upstate agencies train EMS personnel for subway incidents, marine incidents, CBRN, manhole/confined space incidents, or the other incidents that NYC has to deal with? They also learn more about scene management, documentation, vehicle operations, and other things than your standard EMS course. The EMT certification may be the same but the orientation and field training is definitely NOT. Nobody is downplaying anyone's emergency. NYC and most other places have a priority system to queue calls so appropriate resources are assigned as expeditiously as possible. EDP's get evaluated. They just don't get a priority higher than a cardiac, unconscious, diabetic, etc. They won't be glad someone ill equipped to deal with their emergency showed up. They'll sue the city for sending them a unit that was not trained to the same standard as the other city units.

I'm not aware of any agency, from the "grand" FDNY EMS" to the "lowliest" VAC running 100 calls a year that puts a brand new EMT "right out of school" in charge of any call. Every agency has some kind of preceptor period where the fledgling EMT has the opportunity to stretch their new wings while under the supervision and guidance of a more experienced EMT while the ink on their card dries. If you can't execute perfectly (your words), what standard are we striving for? Mediocrity? So-so? To accept and endorse a lower level of performance does the patient a great disservice and also increases your liability. We should be striving for MORE not advocating less!

She might be complaining even if not running for mayor. The difference is nobody would listening.

You mean this report? http://www.nist.gov/manuscript-publication-search.cfm?pub_id=904607 There you go using science and facts to refute politics and emotion. When are you gonna learn!?!?!?

I'm pretty sure that FDNY, Yonkers, New Rochelle, and White Plains have all been saying this for a number of years. As their numbers have been reduced.

Yes and supposedly there is a tier 7 in the works.

The anti-public sector sentiment and actions by our elected officials recently is definitely cause for alarm. I pity those getting on the job now. They will have to work under deteriorating conditions; for many more years, to receive fewer benefits. A dark day for the entire public sector statewide.

If you need to deploy quickly for mass decon, how about the deck gun/ladder pipe or initial attack hand-line? Mass decon wouldn't rely on garden hoses; you need copious/voluminous amounts of water for lots of people and you can't possibly get that from a booster line. All the training I've ever been through was large bore, large volume, low pressure water to cover a large area for many people as quickly as possible. I just can't see a booster line being able to accomplish that effectively.

Is anyone really using a booster line for mass decon? Every set-up I've ever seen called for a whole lot more water than that. Generally BIG water.

The patch or badge (shield) doesn't make any difference. Case in point:

And considering the anti-government sentiment that is so pervasive today (especially in California) wearing a billboard that says "not a government employee" may actually be a GOOD idea.

Considering the variations of uniforms and marking of vehicles this is not shocking or entirely a surprise. It takes it to a bit of an extreme but we always seem to give the critics ammunition for moves like this.

And in the courts of public opinion, New York State and the Southern District.