thebreeze

The best info in regards to NFPA I could find quickly was here: http://www.iafc.org/Operations/LegacyArticleDetail.cfm?ItemNumber=2332 It states: "Definition of first-line fire apparatus: First-line fire apparatus must be manufactured to NFPA 1901, 1991 (2003 editions) and must be maintained apparatus in accordance with NFPA 1912 and 1915. Definition of reserve fire apparatus: Reserve fire apparatus is defined as apparatus manufactured to applicable NFPA 1901 editions, after 1979 and prior to the 1991 edition. Such apparatus must have been upgraded to include as many of the features as possible found in 1991 or newer units and as outlined below. Definition of obsolete apparatus: Apparatus built before 1979 and/or not manufactured to meet NFPA 1901." Doesn't provide any really hard dates as for replacement, just what's considered obsolete. I assume its because they take into account the fact that not every rig sees the same wear and tear, mileage, or weather conditions.

These articles aren't very well written because they are geared more towards a criticism of recent actions taken by judges in regards to NYC, i.e. priority hires with Garaufis, or the suspension of Stop and Frisk with Judge Scheindlin. They are in fact referring to front line FDNY rigs, engines and ladders assigned to companies, not EMS rigs and not support services vehicles. As a safety issue, the UFOA, the union representing FDNY fire officers, have included in their contract a clause that states that once a front line FDNY rig reaches 11 years of age it can no longer be used to respond to any runs other than runs for fires. This would include EMS, gas leaks, water leaks, elevators, and various other non-fire emergencies. Due to the amount of stress and wear placed on these rigs this clause was placed in to assure that the city didn't let the fleet waste away causing safety and maintenance issues. Since the city's order with Seagrave has already been fulfilled and no new contract for engines has been awarded, there are a number of rigs that are approaching, or have passed this ten year lifespan. The city was ignoring the issue so the UFOA filed suit. What I think the article is trying to focus on is the fact that even though the clause in the contract only referred to front line rigs assigned to a company, not spare rigs, the judge ruled that the city can't even use their spares that are older than ten years. Not sure if that was the judges actual ruling, or if the newspaper misinterpreted the issue, as they often do. If that is the case its a fairly significant problem, as rigs only become spares after they complete ten years of front line service, this would effectively eliminate the cities pool of spare rigs. Also, since the original agreement only affected front line rigs, the city could have circumvented the clause by providing the affected companies with spare rigs, allwoing them to continue to respond to all emergencies, not just fires. Interested to see how this is going to play out.

So you're all going to tell me that you wear your eye shields, mask, and apron on every EMS run? I'm sure they had gloves on, like they do on every CFR run, and everyone prepares a little differently based on the ticket received. Personally some of the worst BSI I see is from long time medics, starting IVs with no gloves etc. and I can't count how many times BLS has walked in, sees us doing compressions, and says hey do you guys have any gloves we can borrow!?

Personally, I think this just seems like a frivolous waste of money, It's just another form of duplication and excess, which if I'm correct is what most departments are trying to get away from. How do you justify such an expenditure when multiple systems are already in place for each aspect that it will be used for? Checking department e-mail? I'm sure each station has a computer, not to mention almost everyone has a smartphone or home computer (the few old school people I know who don't have either wouldn't care to check their department e-mail anyhow). Time card? I am fairly sure most employers prefer to have a supervisor handle timekeeping as opposed to the employees themselves, or in the case where no supervisor is present at a station they prefer a timekeeping system that can only be accessed at the workplace, not anywhere you take the iPad. As far as training goes, there is really no accountability for on-line training, there's no way to verify that the person doing it is actually the person it's intended for nor that they aren't just killing time in front of the computer while they have an answer sheet from someone else ready to copy from and fill out sections at appropriate times, I've seen it happen many a time. As far as dissemination of training information, what's going to make the employee read a training bulletin on an iPad if they are already the type who don't care to read it on paper? As far as patient care and written reports, I don't think each person needs one, maybe one per ambulance for PCR's, and one per station for community use in filing of reports, although it seems like the desktops or laptops that most fire stations already have could support this function, not to mention the fact that the majority of the time it is only one supervisor or member filling out the report, not each individual. Many departments already have in place electronic systems to perform all of these functions, most can be easily accessed from a computer available to the employees at work or by logging on remotely from a personal device. Handing everyone an iPad and saying, "now this is only for work use", that's almost a challenge to some people, and expecting everyone to be on board, that's pretty naive, I have a teenage neighbor that if I wanted could have the thing unlocked in twenty minutes so I could use it how I pleased. You would probably be better off giving members unlocked iPads honestly. If it's locked down and can only be used for a few limited work functions its not really able to be customized to the employee and many members will simply throw it in a drawer as another extraneous piece of junk the job has handed them. If they can use it how they please they will be more likely to use it for personal and work use. As far as taking care of department business while off-duty, off-duty is off-duty, one of the great thing about most emergency services jobs is that you don't take your work home with you. If you want to read, train, and enrich yourself out of work that is one thing that I personally promote, but work, stays at work. I also don't see any real efficiency savings, as you aren't really saving any money by spending more money. What can be eliminated now that everyone has an iPad? Saving paper maybe, but I doubt those savings will really make up the cost of your investment especially after maintenance and upkeep costs. As far as the comparison to the expense of each member having a portable radio, how many lives do you think personal iPads will save? Will it give a Mayday for you? Are you going to carry it into the building with you? Is it your lifeline to other members when you are trapped or lost? Personal portable radios have been proven and documented to save lives, and not to sound hackneyed, but that is PRICELESS. Unless you can place efficiency on an equal footing with the life safety of members, then the cost of personal iPads cannot be compared to the cost of personal radios, period. In my opinion, in this day and age of cost cutting, tightening budgets, and increased scrutiny by taxpayers as to where their money goes, this is a waste of money and will be conceived by the taxpayers as such. Many taxpayers and politicians have already begun to perceive the emergency services as a whole to be an expensive, extravagant, luxury item that can be slashed and cut down to the bone, lets not give them more fodder for their arguments. Spend money on the things we REALLY NEED and that are easily defensible to the public and politicians alike.

Who really cares? Maybe departments should worry about having up to date equipment and training before they worry about updating their websites. I hear more complaints at meetings about no one submitting articles for the website than I do about the fact that we only have one six foot hook. People's priorities are so out of whack its not even funny. Not to mention that most people in volunteer departments have families and jobs that take up most of their time. Taking time out of their day for a call or a drill is already secondary to that(or should be), and worrying about the website comes in at best a distant third, more likely way further down. The best thing would be to pay someone to keep it updated, but since money is tight and budgets are under intense scrutiny everywhere, this isn't really feasible or practical. Most departments have a lot more to worry about than their website, so do most of us(hey did anyone know its an election year?), so let's not worry too much about it either.

It would be interesting to see how the anti-union people on this site feel about the unilateral actions taken by this mayor. I know if I worked as a public employee in Scranton right now I'd give an arm and a leg to be in a union.

I don't need to ask them anything, because I'm not looking for any answers. There are plain and simple facts, they were invited to the drill, they were invited to a parade. They chose to attend the parade. I believe this is a problem, not just here but throughout the fire service, where departments place more importance on social functions than they do on firefighting. Just trying to bring some attention to what I believe is an important issue instead of chatting about light bars or trains. If you don't feel it's an important topic then feel free to ignore it like many others do.

No, none of those count as saves. They are stupid feel good fluff pieces written by journalists who don't notice that there are things that actually matter going on in this world. I don't think that any of that stuff is newsworthy either, so that doesn't really change my argument. Furthermore I never anywhere said that what the cops did was no good, did I? You really aren't getting the anti-media angle I am playing here at all. Haters will hate, I am just trying to shed a little light on something. If you can't take the time to actually read and figure out what my posts are saying, then don't worry about it, go read more feel good fluff pieces.

Jealous?? Of what?? A few cops letting some people out of their apartment and throwing pots of water at a stove fire?? I don't think so. It's not a grab by the way when the people are walking out themselves, and no sane officer in the FDNY or I think anywhere else would put a unit in for a citation for this incident for fear of being the laughing stock of the whole job after the Board of Merit got a hold of it. Lets see what happens with these ESU officers though, I am sure they will receive some sort of honor. I don't need either of your options because I don't believe either one of them is correct or alludes to the point I am trying to confer. I'm not criticizing ESU for their actions at all, I am glad they were able to help this family before this turned into a serious emergency, they saw something that needed to be done and did it, kudos to them for not standing around. What I am trying to point out is the media taking a story that would get zero press coverage if it involved the FDNY, and turning into a sensational rescue story for the NYPD. It wouldn't be deemed newsworthy if it was just the FDNY, and rightly so because its not. Food on the stoves with people in the apartment are a dime a dozen.

I don't care what Ossining did on Saturday because they aren't involved in the County Airport Emergency response plan. I am happy they enjoyed their anniversary, it holds no bearing on the drill. What I care about is agencies that are heavily involved in this plan deciding to not participate at all in the drill to instead attend a parade. You can honestly tell me that you believe that is a good sense of priorities?

What you don't seem to be understanding is the general opinion of the media towards the PD and the FD in NYC. If the ESU officers had stood around doing nothing, the story wouldn't have focused on their inaction. Instead it would have been asking where was the fire department?! Why were they so slow? Just like when the ESU cops dropped the car on that poor motorcyclist, even though it was on video, half of the headlines still mentioned the fire department as the agency involved. To top it all off everyone here still acts like this was the fire of the century, a few pots of waters worth of fire isn't newsworthy, its just a slow news day and the press looking to heap more accolades on the agency headed by the man who looks to be New York City's next mayor.

I have no problem with anyone attending a funeral, or standing by so others could, that's a priority, That's why I didn't say anything about anyone going to a funeral, I said something about people going to a PARADE, which is obviously some peoples priority.

I think most of whats going on here has nothing to do with either agency, frankly I don't care who gets the job done as long as everyone comes out OK. It more has to do with the fact that the media seems to have a bullseye on the FDNY and at the same time is riding on the NYPD's nuts*cks. If the ESU officers involved were able to gain entry and extinguish the fire with no SCBA and no PPE, then this wasn't much of a fire, it was more of a fortuitous situation where the PD happened to come upon a food on the stove with a lock-in. How many times do you see the FD going to a food on the stove where the apartment is banked down to the floor and they have to go in, wake up the residents, take them outside, and put out whatever is burning on the stove. Its common, but you don't see it in the paper, ever. Mostly due to the fact that its not a big deal. The NYPD definitely has a better press desk than the FDNY, hands down. This isn't anyone trying to claim bragging rights, this is one agencies press desk doing a better job selling themselves to the media than the others. Why the media goes along with this is another story.

Its great to see how many people came out and showed up for such an important major emergency response drill that is required every two years by the FAA, Its really sad to know how many people should have been there but blew it off instead to go to a parade.

There's no reason that we should try to do more with less. There's no reason for us to be breaking our backs and possibly putting ourselves in danger because some politicians are trying to cut costs. They look to cut staffing because it looks good on a spreadsheet and they view it as an acceptable risk. The plain and simple fact of it however is that with less men it takes more time to stretch a hoseline, do a search, or ventilate. We are only men, and we can only push ourselves so far before we stop functioning at our peak level or injure ourselves. One fireman can't do the work of three as much as we would all like to pat ourselves on the back and say otherwise. The most important thing for us is to operate safely and effectively, we all want to go home to our families at the end of the day.

Right off the bat I can see ways the vulcans will claim racism, it's cheaper to file online, and the test is computer based, they will just say that minorities don't have the same access to computers as white applicants. They did get a bone of sorts thrown to them though, as the computer test will include some video and picture questions to make it fair. This was done after the vulcans claimed that reading wasn't important for our job and that the emphasis on reading comprehension was racist. I suppose once these people who can't read get on the job the bosses will have to read the department orders and regulations aloud to them, or maybe the job will just release them as books on tape. Absurd, good luck everybody

Town of Mamaroneck Ladder 19 http://public.fotki.com/lfd171/westchester_county_fire/mamaroneck_town/ladder19.html

This is a great speech, unfortunately I don't the the FDNY higher-ups agreed, pretty sure he got in some trouble for this.

I am curious as to what planet you are from, based on your logic everyone should be assumed to be guilty until every avenue of possible prosecution has been exhausted and the person still comes out clean. The man was acquitted of any crime by a grand jury, the Justice Department didn't pick this case up because there were questionable police practices, they picked it up because the race issue was inflamed by the family and other prominent race baiters like Al Sharpton, and that fits with the agenda of the current administration in the Justice Department. Blue wall? What on earth are you talking about? I am not a police officer nor do I know anyone involved with any aspect of this case. I simply have made my own judgements based on all the evidence presented, just like the grand jury did. The man was acquitted and the last time I checked on this planet, in this country, you are innocent until proven guilty.

Then they should continue to support him, just because the federal government may bring charges in a case doesn't mean they are warranted. Look at some of the Justice Departments recent choices of cases to pursue, especially in the emergency services field, some of them are absurd. The PBA obviously believes in PO Hess and what he did, as do I. Noone should back away from this man simply because there could possibly be an indictment against him, people need to stand up for what they believe in and show their support.

Maybe the man was just a little upset that his property was burning down, maybe we should put ourelves in his shoes for a minute. Perhaps he was upset with the fact that a man with fire department credentials, which he probably assumes makes him a firefighter, was doing nothing to help while his barn burned. People sometimes do things they wouldn't normally do when they are faced with a crisis, lets cut the guy a little slack and wait for the facts before we basically start accusing the guy of arson.

Congratulations to Officer Hess. Hopefully his enjoyment of this award won't be short lived though. Unfortunately the U.S. Justice Department under the Obama administration seems to obsessed with race, and more often than not sides with minorities even when it seems blatantly obvious that there is no overt discrimination. Hopefully they see this incident for the unfortunate tragedy that it was and just let it go to rest.

Its that time of the year again, time to leave your district with little or no coverage to make people in another district( sometimes far enough away to be in a different area code/county/state) think that you have a full fledged state of the art firefighting force. Little do they know that what they see is usually all you have, and as for for coverage back home there may as well be a few cows wandering around the empty bays in your firehouse. Don't jump on me right away, I have seen things like this go on in a few different departments. My question to all of you who are so eager to share parade dates and shine each others brass is; when you go out of district, what apparatus do you take, who do you take, what rigs do you leave behind, who stays in the district, and what percentage of your those people who stay behind are interior firefighters? Just curious.

I have every right to criticize people for doing something that I believe is a dangerous and unacceptable practice, that being leaving their communities unprotected so they can attend a parade. I never said that only volunteers attend parades, what I said was that the rigs taken out of service and sent across the county or even state are almost always volunteer rigs. Besides the one instance mentioned by another member I don't know of any other career departments that take rigs out of service and pay members to leave the district and march in a parade. The paid departments experience no change in staffing and have no rigs out of service during parades, the issue was that there are in fact departments that compromise coverage so they can go attend a parade, I don't see how this can not be viewed as a problem. Also I never said that departments only worry about coverage during parades, in fact I will quote myself from an earlier post here; "I understand staffing in the volunteer service is tough, and you'd be hard put to come by a district that can meet NFPA standards 24/7. I also understand that for the most part we all try to do our best to remedy this situation and whether many of you like to admit it or not we all know its a problem." So before you accuse anyone of generalizing and being off base try to take a step back and see the issue objectively, maybe from the taxpayers view. Taxpayers who I am fairly sure aren't going to be lining up behind their department to support them when they lost their home or business because the lions share of said department was off parading around someone elses town. Again, maybe during parades your department provides the same adequate coverage it supplies every other day. If so, good for you, but I think you are way off base in claiming that every department can do the same. Especially when numerous other people here have flat out said that they have seen this in their own departments.

Prison is too good for this man. His selfish actions have robbed a family of a happy future they will now never know.