meat441

Sorry to say, but! It looks like counties north of the city Have a problem with representation. Law inforcement overshadowed fire and especially EMS. Where was the EMS representatives besides Transcare and 1 volunteer. The Senator's CHIEF OF STAFF didn't even recognize (EMS). That in my opinion is a HUGE ISSUE? It's looks as if EMS is going to have problem. This could be a reason for low EMS involvement. Can't blame them.

Good thing i didn't mention about the (FIT 5). That could start a firestorm?

And we all remember the undefeated (PATRIOTS) when they met Big Blue in the Superbowl? I mean the defeated (PATRIOTS). LOLL. My lap top is killing me.

Nice job Jersey Giants. Sorry, LOLL

Folda-Tank. Connectors, Tank Transfer Adapters. http://www.fol-da-tank.com/page/Holders.aspx?nt=137

Wow! I didn't know my Turbodraft rant would cause such serious discussions. Let me give everyone my 2 cents about Turbodrafts. I'm going back around 10 years ago while is was a member of a volunteer FD. in north western NJ. I am no expert by any means in pump operations. Give me the interior work at a fire scene and i'm a Happy Camper. But one day while looking in the FD supply room i came across 3 boxes. When i opened these boxes i found 3 BRAND NEW TURBODRAFT'S. I asked the Captain about them and he told me they were purchased by another Chief 2 years ago. He thought for our RURAL COMMUNITY IN NORTHERN N.J. that they had some possibilities for water supply. I asked the ex-Chief who purchased them why they were still boxed. He said they couldn't get them to work. Someone also lost the information on them. So they boxed and placed them in the supply room for 2 years until nosey me came along. I think they spent around $9000 for them. GREAT INTENTIONS but Cmon, what a waist. I brought up at an officer's meeting next month that i would take on the project of getting these things to work or return them to the company, maybe for some money back. Some officer's laughed while others had comments that i can't mention on this forum. But i gave it a try. The internet is a wonderful thing. Right on the companies web site was all the information i would need along with the operation's of the unit's. I asked the Chief for permission to utilize our draft pumper for testing the Turbodraft unit's and spent 3 hours utilizing every method suggested by the manufacturer for there operations. DAMN THEY WORK. Step #1 completed, get them to work. Step #2 the hardest, getting the officer's to acknowledge their exsistance. Now the smoke's comming out of my ears, HOW? I knew we had a drafting drill in the next week. Let me tell you how boring drafting drills are? WHY! Because how do you have 50 firefighter's practicing drafting in 2 hours? While the normal drill was underway, the officer's came over to see what i could do with a Turbodraft. Viola they work. Ran 2 preconnected 1 3/4" lines and flowed water. Within 20 minutes the drafting drill was over and Turbodraft drill commenced. I guess that's what happens when you read the instructions. Step #3 training, already commencing that night. The Chief who purchased the unit's, approached and thanked me for taking on this project. All he's heard for years was grief about waisting all that money to purchase them. Couple day's later i was asked by a YOUNGER MEMBER of the company if a portable pump could supply a Turbodraft? Hmmm! Let's try. Down to the lake again with a portable pump, hose and you guessed it, a Turbodraft. That worked. What about filling and supplying a Fold-A-Tank? With 2 Turbodrafts and 2 portable pumps we were able to supply a Fold-A-Tank, i believe it was a 3000 gallon tank. Our draft pumper supplied our ladder platform with 1 monitor from the Fold-A-tank for about 15 minutes before draining it. 3 Turbo's solved that problem for continued flows. All off of portable pumps. A month later i was summoned to the Chief's office for a meeting about the Turbodrafts AGAIN. A township in the next county was planning a drill at their local High school in the next month. Their hydrant system is a lot to be desired. They heard from a firefighter who knew a firefighter who contacted us about the Turbodrafts. Could they be used for filling Tender's? This was to be a 15 Tender filling drill 2 miles from the high school. No drafting sites in area of the school and limited hydrant's. The nearest draft site was a state park with beach access to water. 50' feet of sand. A driveway with access to the beach for 1 engine. The driveway was 100' long then another 50 foot incline to the state park parking area for the Tender's to be filled. Good luck trying to get all this equipment down to the beach with limited personnel? Talking about this on the apparatus floor, a great place for thought? Officer's were leaning against one of our BRUSH TRUCKS. LOLL. Hey they have pumps mounted to them? Why not squirrel tale a length of suction to the pump of the brush unit? Brush unit's normally are 4 wheel drive? Drive over the beach, back the truck in, drop the hard suction, 25 foot length of 2 1/2" from pump to Turbodraft, 50' of 5" supply line to the Folda-Tank, tie off 5" supply to the tank with rope and Draft Pumper supplies 3-3" lines up the grade to the fill site and fills the Tenders? Do this with 2 brush trucks and Holy Cow Batman, instant fill site. 15 minute set up time. 5 firefighter's. The mutual Aid department hosting the drill came with their Rescue to organize the Fill site and showed us they carried a FLOATING Portable pump on unit. OMG 3 Turbodrafts supplying the Folda-Tank? We overflowed the Folda-Tank numerous times till we got the hang of this operation. 2 hours into this we noticed firfighter's standing on top of the state park parking lot above us watching. It seems that the drill ended early because of what we were doing. Almost every department was their watching the fill operation. LOLL. A few years later i responded with the Forest Fire Service for pump operations in my old town caused by Hurricane Irene. My old department was assigning pump out details. Our first assignment after flood waters receeded was a full basement pump out in a house. The FD was already pumping it when we arrived and said they would be there for hour's. I asked them where the Turbodrafts were and to bring 1 here. Again portable pump lowered the water to 10"s in an hour. Then they moved the other Turbo's to other houses to quickly drop the water levels. The small pumps did the rest of the work later. Another use for them. By the way, 2 years after that high school exercise Folda-Tank came out with adapter's for connecting large diameter hose to their tanks. So i guess that OLD, MIDDLE AGED and YOUNG FIREFIGHTERS could learn a thing or 2 by TRYING. When i use to teach, students would ask, what about this and can we try that. If it's safe then why not try it? What a concept, TRY? KEEP SAFE.

Over a mile of 5" inch supply line? How long did this take to establish? How much apparatus was required? How much manpower for this laying line operation? Only my input but! By the looks of South Salem it appears to be a Rural Department. No dependable hydrant system but a good amount of lakes in close proximity to fire. BUT THEY SAID NO GOOD WATER SUPPLY? Photo's of the fire show a lake with dock behind structure. Another lake across the street with driveway access. I'm sorry but it just sounds like poor planning to me? The water supply was there. Photo shows portable pumps on a dock, drafting from a lake BEHIND THE HOUSE, supplying water. Again this appaears to me to be a RURAL DEPARTMENT with water supply issue's. This was a great way to move water. The source was right there. Pre-planning is a must especially in rural area's. What about purchasing some (TURBO-DRAFTS)? Portable pump drafting thru a Turbo Draft, pumping thru a couple of length's of 5" hose to supply either apparatus or portable dump pools. I noticed in the department's web site they own what appears to be a Brush Truck with mounted pump. This is a great resource for driving down the opposite drive way to the other lake and supplying thru another Turbo Draft to an engine on the street. 150 foot driveway. I have used these Turbo Drafts and you'll be amazed at the amount of water you could supply, especially thru portable pumps. Nice looking apparatus is fine, but if you can't supply water quickly and pre-plan then why are we here? Sorry for my rant.

Staffing of 2 Rescue/Specialist's.

We are EMS and become responsible to document patient activity. At least in Jersey it's required. Not sure for other states. Here becomes the problem. Be truthfull and think about how many firefighters take care of themselves physically. Paid more then volunteers. EMS providers are even worse? Lots of dirty water dog's. I've seen a Chief officer exit a highrise building for the 3rd time. Fully packed dripping in sweat and bending over to catch his breath. As my partner and i approached him he waved us away. Still trying to catch his breath after 2 more minutes i radio'd to our BLS unit for a streatcher. I approached the deputy and pointed that we were going to take him. He still resisted and refused. The deputy finally ordered him. He was addmitted at the hospital for 2 day's for dehydration. This was a chief officer. Firefighters will listen to their own before others. Everytime i saw him at a fire scene he would come over to us, I would shake my head and he would reply with, (I KNOW). To bad he (HAD) to retire a few month's after that. Great firefighter. Monitor them when needed. But we are limited in our resources just like FD, we're even worse. Would it be wrong to say that apparatus carry water, jugs, towels, misting fans. Believe me there is more room on fire apparatus then an ambulance. With our limited personnel we can monitor them as their leaving the structure. If a firefighter has a medical emergency we are there, not to where more radio traffic is required or having to find us. I think it's going to be a long time before we see extra EMS personnel. Keep Safe It comes down to all Fire departments need to be better equipped for Rehab. No matter what the FD's can muster more resources than EMS can. What FD would not show up for a mutual aid call. They come for RIT why not for Rehab.

For the paid professional, most wear Station Wear. For the volunteers, i don't think they respond to the firehouse NAKED. But i wouldn't want to know that. LOL

I'm speaking from a contracted EMS provider perspective. Lets look at the equipment and supplies required for Rehab. Misting systems, Tents, chairs, blankets, towels, heaters, bottled water, tables the list goes on. I understand that Rehab is required for firefighters. But to what extent that the EMS contracted service has to provide the equipment. Fire deparment based EMS, sure. It's comes out of their budgets. Volunteers may just decide to take on the responsibility, even on a regional response. Moonachie First Aid in NJ is a prime example. Peekskill appears to have a dedicated unit for which i applaud them. But! who pay's for the insurance? Who pay's for the Fuel? Who pay's for the repairs? Who pay's for the equipment? Contracted services only have so much money in their budgets. Same goes for the privates. What is available for the occasional response versus a busy fire department would tax any system. As you can see it's not cheap. Most FD's in our area provide their own because most cities are contracted EMS services. Contracts do not normally provide extra cash for Rehab or even standby's at high school football games, festivals or parades. The contract is for Emergency Medical services. In NJ the Board of Ed's contract for EMS coverage with privates. These large departments carry their own and or utilize a canteen unit for refreshments. We stand buy at fire scene's and watch for firefighter's who may require EMS intervention. But pretty much they monitor their own. It's easier for a Chief officer to rotate his men on scene and tell them to take a breather. As for the BUNKER PANTS. Most firefighters won't remove them but will remove their coats. Firefighters know from walking around in these clothes in 80 degree temps. how warm they get. Plus the interior fighting they need to accomplish. Just bringing facts to everyone's attention. I wish all towns and cities would provide additional cost funding. But nowaday's were all trying to survive. Keep safe

Why is rehab an EMS function? Providing Rehab at fire scene's thru EMS could be a detrimental issue for a lot of FD's. My reasons are this. If a firefighter reports to a Rehab area being provided by EMS, it would equate to (turnout gear) being completely removed for cooling down purposes. Very rarely will firefighters agree to removing bunker pants. This is needed for the cooling application of the body. Next, most firefighter vital signs could be elevated upon entering Rehab thru EMS. My reasoning is this. If elevated BP's or elevated pulse rates would require us to transport to a medical facility. How about body temp's? Heat exhaustion? It is a very physical demand placed on the body. Truthfully, how many firefighters would have periods of elevated vitals and would require long duration Rehab time in EMS/Rehab area. What would be the norm for a stable firefighter condition. Elevated vitals would dictate to me for immediate transportation to a medical facility. I have seen this time and time again especially at Hazmat's for pre entry vitals to be accomplished. We would recommend to the IC that the firefighter vitals are abnormal. Then to be told the firefighter feels ok to enter and it would be ok. Cmon. What would you expect us to do when we document all this and the firefighter and chief blow it off? What i'm saying is let the FD provide what rehab services should be required for their personnel and performed by the FD. When EMS is required for medical reasons, then get us involved. If i provided Rehab you would loose half of your onscene firefighters. This would be because i'm required to transport (you) to a medical facility. Lawsuits run the gamit nowaday's. I would have to protect you and me. Be SAFE.

The question is WHY? 10 year old truck? If the citizens of that FIRE DISTRICT vote yes for the new truck, Then they diserve what they get. MORE MONEY OUT OF THEIR POCKETS? For WHAT?

Didn't Phoenix fire use transport engine/ambulances?

Didn't the Phoenix Fire Department utilize transport engine/ambulances?

Interesting concept? Before condeming the unit how about a discussion? Could this type of vehicle possibly help in saving lives and jobs? Please fill me in if i'm wrong, but doesn't New Rochelle contract for transport ALS trucks and New Rochelle FD assists as First Responders? I read an article that said there are 2 transport ALS trucks? Is this true? My point being it must get busy with EMS runs at times to where transport trucks are not available? Why not staff a couple of these unit's for back-up to ALS? What about BLS patient transport by FD, or MCI's or EMS jobs waiting for transport? Dual purpose? Keep the larger apparatus in quarters for other responses. Unit's can be utilized for trash can fires, dumpsters, brush fires or even car fires. They are equipped with CAFS? Dual purpose is what i'm trying to get at. Save jobs. This is just to open a discussion. Could these unit's work? Unit's like this could justify JOBS?

Thank you.

Why is this a TEMPORARY EMS station?

SO! It happened. FD found (partially liable for now). Doubt this will end. Now how about suggestions on how we can all deal with the future? What are town attorney's for? Why not meet with them and find out our responsiblity to respond for WIRES DOWN INCIDENTS? In my township, the FD responds to arching wires, wires burning in trees or attached to structures, wires on vehicles with people inside of them. Other wise PD takes the job in alone. We all have OEM personnel. Most OEM offices have vehicles. They also apply for grants for the purpose of traffic barriers. Our towns OEM is very pro-active and is notified immediately by PD to assist. C.E.R.T teams who are always looking to be utilized at incidents. There are other resources available to assist but never requested. Keep FD & PD available for other responses. How many towns have hidden resources available for use? Most town department's and managers ignore or just refuse to contact each other to discuss resources that maybe be hidden in back storage rooms. Most of the excuses i hear are, i didn't know we had this? FD and PD can't do it all. So why shouldn't we be smarter? SUGGESTIONS? WE CAN ALL SHARE.

Hey now! This will result in an FAA investigation? The PILOT and CO-PILOT will have a lot to answer for. As for the Quint, i would assume that hitting the rear of the ladder at the turntable could result in other forces being exerted on the turntable mounting to the body and frame of the truck. Ladder total. Turntable possible. Mountings to body. How about hydraulic locks? Ladder cradles? Lets not forget the jet$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$? Could also be a total because of forces exerted? They could be looking for new jobs? Maybe AIR ALASKA?

I'm not a great Fan of Hurst, but i do try all tools before i comment. The unit's have great power for a battery operated tool. Tool weight is good. The cutter blades could be better if designed for deeper cuts. Spreader arms were short for techniques i generally would use. Most of all is the annoying thumb operation which in general is a Hurst trade mark. Beware of the batteries? Better have back up's for extended operation, especially if not charged properly. OVERALL a good unit. Think wisely?

Maybe the first question asked should be, WHAT DOES M.C.I. MEAN? M.C.I. MASS CASUALTY INCIDENT= Large amount of patients sick or injured. MULTIPLE CASUALTY INCIDENT= Incident involving more than one patient sick or injured. But limited in amounts. MAJOR CASUALTY INCIDENT= Incident which can create a number of sick or injured patients. I.E. Fire, Hazmat, High-rise fire, Transportation, Stand-by event which could include hundreds to thousands attending. How can we utilize a (specific number)? 1-100 patients LEVEL#1, 101-200 patients LEVEL #2? Numbers aren't the answer. Why not look at the available resources current or required. Lets take a small town that has 3 BLS unit's available from it's EMS system. 10:00 a.m. on a Wednesday morning. Maybe that town can provide only 1 BLS unit for that time period. Lets take that same town at 8:00 P.M. Wednesday evening. I bet that same town could provide all 3 BLS unit's will full crews? 1 BLS unit Wednesday morning at 10:00 a.m. handling an MVA with 7 Green tag patients. This type of patient count would tax their available (LOCAL RESOURCES). Correct? 3 BLS unit's Wednesday evening at 8:00 p.m. handling an MVA with the same 7 Green tag patients. Would this incident now tax the (LOCAL RESOURCES). Maybe what needs to be identified is (time of day). Available resources from Local, County or State. GREAT DISCUSSION! A LOT TO DISCUSS? LETS KEEP IT GOING. I would like to hear what others think when it comes to MCI's

WOW! What a hot topic and then some? About the towing company. Why wouldn't a towing company have speedy dry on hand to handle fluid clean up? Or brooms for sweeping debris? They want the business of towing and holding to make money. Correct? They deal with clean up at their own facilities and for disposing of these products with in the law. Correct? If you as the responding agency spread speedy dry down at an accident scene aren't you also required to clean it up and dispose of it properly? You can't tell me that there aren't departments out there that just leave speedy dry down and leave the scene. I have scene this time and time again. There will come a day when those agencies are reported, then what? I would love to see the fine they will receive from state or federal agencies incharge. If towing companies want to tow, then let them clean it up too. If they wanted they could also bill for the clean up and disposal to the insurance companies? Large incidents of course are a different matter. That's why we have Hazmat Teams. The one word i hate is ACCIDENT! When is it ever an accident? Motor vehicle collision yes. But somewhere, somehow, someone screwed up. Just my 2 cents, maybe less.

Every department has their responsibility to act as they were trained, Police, Fire and EMS. A few examples in my area? PD arrives at the scene of an automobile fire. Officer utilizes his and another PD extinguisher. Fire is quelled and the officer cancels FD and requests a towing company. Towing company arrives, the tow operator is winching the auto onto the flatbed and the auto re-ignites and the tow operator receives minor burns. Fire and (now EMS) respond. The tow operator is very upset upon arrival of FD and begins screaming at them why they did'nt properly extinguish the fire, to say the least. FD tells him that they were cancelled by PD. OOPs? This is still in litigation and the officer gets time off. Fire alarm activation at a drug store early morning. PD arrives on scene reporting nothing showing from his patrol unit and tries to cancel FD. All fire unit's held in quarters for the exception of the FD officer. Upon arrival FD officer looks into the storefront window and can't see inside because of the heavy smoke condition covering the windows. The PD officer thought they had tinted glass? Working structure. Officer got time off. PD arrives on scene of a reported stabbing to the back of a female. BLS and ALS are responding and the officer reports to cancel ALS because it's a small cut? BLS attends to patient finding no breath sounds from upper lung fields. ALS requested back to scene, 3 minutes later cardiac arrest. OOP's These are real incidents that i have witnessed. Everyone is trained for what their specialty is. If you choose the liability side than i think you have chosen poorly. I know as an EMT if their is a fire incident then let fire handle it. If it's a PD incident, then it's their's. DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, it's no fun to be in front of a jury or even better a GRAND JURY to explain why this occured. Liability. On my day's off i'd rather be sitting at my lake fishing then not getting payed sitting in a court room because of someone else's mistake. Policies and procedures before it occurs. After these incidents their are now procedures.

As reported by Firehouse.com on January 29,2008 American LaFrance has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.