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Yeah, that's a good way to sum it up. I know this is an emotional topic, and I also know that these graphics and such are done with absolutely the very best, heartfelt intentions. I would never question that. But in my perhaps narrow minded or warped way of looking at it, it just seems like it's more of the hip thing to do and maybe it does take some of the real meaning away from it. On the flip side, something that draws your attention and makes you remember the brothers and sisters that have lost their lives protecting others, not just on 9/11, is worth it. Clearly, I'm a bit conflicted over this issue.

Incidentally, here's the decal and graphic.

Is anyone else getting a bit tired of seeing American flags and patriotic graphics plastered all over fire apparatus? Some of the work is really nice, don't get me wrong. The Seagraves that were delivered to FDNY in the months following 9/11 were especially nice (L10 and S61 notably) but now it just seems a bit much. It seems like just about every Pierce that leaves the factory has that American flag grill on it. Don't misunderstand me, I'm certainly not anti-patriotism or anti-9/11 remembrance, quite the opposite. I lost a very close and longtime friend that day from our dept that was in S41. We dedicated and named the station closest to his house in honor of him, as well as put a nice decal on the side of the engine in that station, and smaller decals on the windows of all our other apparatus. When we spec'd the graphics on our tower in late 2001, we came up with a really nice American flag, eagle and WTC decal (which I've seen on other Pierce rigs after we came up with it). I'm talking more about the really over the top stuff. Where was all this patriotism BEFORE 9/11 happened? PS - No, I'm not a communist.

Jason, I don't think it's even worth engaging him over his ridiculous and ignorant statement. Also, not every vollie is a wannabe or jealous of career guys, yet all too often I hear comments like yours from career guys. You should really heed your own advice and get your own facts straight before being so quick to jump to the conclusion that we all are career dept rejects. I assure you it's just not true.

I'm not sure about front cornering lights, but I can speak to the effectiveness of side/rear cornering lights. When we spec'd our Pierce midmount platform, we had them install a Whelen 700 series clear halogen on each side just behind the tandem axle. The lights are in a bezel that angles them back to 32 degrees rear facing. Both sides activate simultaneously with the turn signal and stay on for 10 seconds after the signal is deactivated. They make a tremendous difference and aren't at all overshadowed by the warning lights. With as wide a swing as the rear end of that truck has, it's really nice to be able to clearly see any potential hazards when turning at night. I suspect the front bumper lights would be equally effective, and probably a good option for depts spec'ing new rigs to consider. In my opinion, the more light the better.

It's scumbags like this that make me lean towards thinking capital punishment is a good idea, and to quickly forget any objections or reservations I may have about it.

ASI makes some nice shirts. Here's ours from 2002. The only things that bother me is we somehow missed on the proof copy that they had '95 instead of 95', and it should've said "Aerial Platform" or "Tower Ladder", not "Aerial Ladder". Oh well, still a nice shirt, and whoever took that photo did a great job.

We don't anymore, but for a few years in the early 90s we rolled our 75' rearmount first due out of our Mt. Ivy station (north side of our district). The truck has a 1500GPM two stage Waterous pump with a 340 gallon tank. It has three 2" crosslays and at the time carried 500' or so of 5" (since replaced with 3"). In 1994 we purchased a new pumper for that station and the 75' was changed to second due. It is currently second due out of our main station in the south end of the district, having been replaced up north by the 95' midmount tower.

A cruddy old couch = free A few gallons of gasoline = $10 Not having a shred of common sense = Priceless Fire whistle blowing in the background = Hysterical

We have them on most of our apparatus. Really they're just water cans with the foam cartridge holder/aerator as part of the hose. They work relatively well for a quick fix. I much prefer the TFT FoamPaks we have. Might not be as quickly deployed as a can, but you get much more bang for the buck with them, especially with the medium expansion nozzle.

You mean non-affiliated buffs thinking they know it all about emergency services because they follow us around taking pictures all day or reading message boards like these or being an apparatus aficionado? If that's what you mean, then yeah I would definitely have to say "JUST SHUT UP!" to them if they were arrogant and ran their mouth. It's one thing to have a bright eyed, bushy tailed young guy freshly crammed with knowledge who just can't wait to share it all...or a crusty old leatherhead who has seen and done it all and thinks no one could possibly know more than him...at least they're in the game. That would be like a guy watching Platoon or Crimson Tide and thinking he knows what it's like to be in the armed forces. To be clear, I have absolutely NO problem with buffs or hobbiests that are into what we do, our history, our calls, our apparatus, etc. If they want to learn and ask questions, even better. I would draw the line, however, at being "schooled" by one of them on something I have 17 years firsthand experience doing and they have 0.

While your point may have some merit to it, a few things jump out at me. First, that you only have 2 posts here. Not to say that makes your opinion any less valid or somehow diminishes your right to state it, but it definitely does come across in an unflattering way for someone with so few posts to have such a strong opinion about how everyone else posts. Also, we were all young and excited and ready to go once. I was pretty arrogant when I first got out of Essentials and thought I knew it all. Hell, sometimes I still get a bit heady at times and have to reel myself in a bit, and I've been in the game for 17 years now! While I definitely get a kick out of reading some posts online, not just this board, I try not to let it get to me (much). I made a post the other day in the "Patient requests silent response" thread that wasn't all that different about how some opinions from younger guys show their age, inexperience or immaturity. Fact is, I was only assuming they were younger guys, they could've been in their 40s for all I know, just with a bitter, selfish attitude. I don't think arrogance is exclusive to the young crowd. Some of the younger guys I've come across are quite the opposite, eager to learn and listen, less inclined to run their mouth. I guess my point is, I'd be more inclined to shake my head at a post an older member might make where they throw around unsolicited opinions or criticisms. Especially if it has not much to do with the main point of the thread. Respect is a two way street, and having years in or being older doesn't give you any license to act like you're a self appointed expert who knows it all. None of us knows it all, not even close.

I honestly couldn't disagree more. All these innovations DO make our job safer and save lives. Better materials for turnout gear protect us better and are lighter, reducing stress. Same with SCBA. The #1 killer of firefighters? Heart attacks related to stress. So I'm not sure how anyone can say improvements to our "toys" don't directly impact life safety. Incidentally, firefighters don't just die fighting fires. There have been plenty of deaths and serious injuries involving non-fire incidents, most notably and tragically while responding. If a department has access to grant money, they can purchase newer and better equipment, so that also has a direct impact on saving firefighter's lives. Now that I DO agree with, but it's not just limited to actual fires. Training should touch on every aspect of the job, especially the "routine" calls we take for granted. Yes, probably the most dangerous aspect of the job is actual interior structural firefighting, so training for those situations should be a priority, but not at the expense of neglecting something else.

Yeah, the new truck is still green. Pretty sharp looking too. To answer your question, it's been years since I've seen the back of their Hahn, but I'm pretty sure it did have an LDH hose reel. There was definitely a truck or two in the county that had that, and I believe they were one and Valley Cottage was the other. Photo credit: Rheems1 @ www.firepics.net

I somewhat agree with Rich's basic point, that if the board of commissioners are also members of the company, it could be problematic at times. Unlike Rich, I definitely wouldn't go so far as to say a board of commissioners comprised of firefighters would not be able to act in the public's best interest, or have any objectivity. His example of the boat purchase is a good one, and does illustrate what could potentially go wrong, but I don't think that's the norm. Sure it happens from time to time, I won't say it doesn't. Maybe some of the issues of alleged extravagant spending on the Island were a result of this situation, where the commissioners were company members who were either too easily influenced or were looking out for their own interests rather than the public's. That being said, there are definitely upsides to having a governing board that understands exactly what the Chief means when he goes before them to ask for "2 TFT nozzles, 800 feet of 2 inch, 5 cans of AFFF..." without having to stand there for an hour explaining what the acronyms stand for, what each thing does and why it is needed. Not that I'm suggesting he shouldn't have to justify each and every item he requests regardless, but realistically, it's a lot easier when you both speak the same language. All I'm saying is, be careful what you wish for. I've seen where depts are run by bean counters. It's not pretty, and operations definitely suffer. I'd rather have the occasional conflict of interest than deal with an apathetic board. Another point to make is regarding other types of public office. Would you prohibit someone from running for town supervisor if they once worked for the highway dept, fearing they might show favoritism or bad judgment in administering that dept? Or tell someone they can't run for state senate because they were once a police officer, and you just know they'll blindly vote yes for any legislation favoring cops? Of course not. Often times, you're glad to have someone who understands the issues straight away. Why should a board of fire commissioners be any different then? The flip side of that is what appears to be happening in this particular case, where there might be a personality conflict between the board and this member. I've seen that side of it too, where maybe a Chief isn't particularly liked by the commissioners and they give him a hard time during his term, sometimes even denying him requested items just to make a point. Now THAT is definitely not acting in the public's best interest.

Interesting, too bad almost every link comes up with: Please check back as we are updating new content in conjunction with the launch of the new Seagrave website. For more information in the interim, visit our Brochure Downloads where you can view or print off our product brochures. Additional content for this section will be available in the next few days. I agree, wouldn't you want to have it all done PRIOR to (re)launching it? I don't see any point whatsoever in launching a newly (re)designed site unless you've finished designing and testing it first. Looks pretty poor for a company the size of Seagrave to rush something out like this, when the existing site functioned perfectly well and all the links worked.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand where you get that from. Maybe personal experience? I sure as heck have never heard that given as a reason for pairing blue lights with red and white lights. Granted, post 9/11 many depts are putting flags and murals on their apparatus, but I've seriously never encountered anything related to a "patriotic ensemble" when referring to the lights. As far as the NJ law, on the surface it seems to introduce confusion. Are vehicles with blue lights now "authorized emergency vehicles" if the public must yield to them and they have right of way priveledges? If so, then they should be required to sound audible devices in combination with the lights. Running silent with lights really isn't the best idea. I think the public is conditioned to expect a siren or horn in addition to the lights if they are to yield. Then again, we could argue forever about the often ignorant or indifferent attitude of the public with regard to all this.

PD in Rockland has been using blue lights for years, rear AND front. The public still does not care. If they don't care about a 45 foot long, 12 foot high tower ladder barreling down the road with 80 lights, 2 sirens and air horns, why the hell would they care about a blue dashlight on a Honda Civic?

Good Sam in Suffern (Exit 14B on the T-Way) is the closest on this side of the river.

Nomex and Kevlar are hardly new, they've been around since the 70s. Also, our equipment has gotten lighter and lighter over the years, not heavier. Turnout gear weight is way down with outer shells made from PBI and thinner, yet more effective moisture and thermal barriers. Also, more attention is paid to the cut and fit, eliminating excess material that serves no beneficial purpose, but does add quite a bit of weight (so called short cut commando style or tail style coats, as an example). By the same token, they are also much more breathable, especially with Crosstech moisture barriers. Compared to the standard Nomex outer shell and extremely heavy and non-breathable Nomex Batt liners of not so long ago, turnout gear is practically featherweight at this point. SCBA weight is also way down over just a decade ago. The newer ergonomically designed aluminum frames and featherweight composite bottles, compared to the old wire frame and steel bottles, are a dream to wear. I do agree that some sort of cooling vest would be something worth looking into though. I don't think it will be long before we see some kind of thermal imaging display interfaced in our SCBA masks. Perhaps a small sensor mounted to the mask with the electronics on the airpack frame, then the image can be projected inside the mask as a heads-up display. You would, of course, be able to turn it on and off as needed.

I'm actually pretty surprised by some of the responses and attitudes here. I'd swear some of you either don't actually operate in the real world, don't actually drive the rigs at all/haven't been a driver for very long, are young and immature, or just really don't give a crap about anyone but yourselves and your craving for an adrenaline rush from the lights and sirens. I'm not going to preach, we all do things differently, but when some of the responses border on sheer ignorance or apathy, that's kind of sad. There are so many variables, there really are. As I said previously, I've been around plenty long enough to know that lights and sirens generally don't make much difference, especially if we're only talking about shutting them down in the last few blocks or so. Thankfully I've been in a position to have taught enough driver training classes that I'm confident the drivers I've passed have real world knowledge, and most importantly, COMMON SENSE.

A NFIRS report is filled out each and every time 44 Control sounds our tones, even if it's in error, as well as any incidents we respond to that 44 Control might not dispatch us to, for whatever reason. In the case of dispatch in error, that is done with the assumption that some members may only hear the tones and respond anyway, so it's best to have a report on file in case there is an accident or the like. For incidents that 44 Control didn't dispatch us to (verbal, additional location not classified as an exposure or related to the initial alarm), 44 Control is notified to create an additional incident, and we file a NFIRS report as well. The reports are almost always completed by the incident commander, but occasionally he may designate someone to do it (generally another officer or senior member).

That hospital has been in financial trouble for as far back as I can remember, certainly back to the early 90s when I was still in EMS in the county. I can tell you it would have a MAJOR impact on EMS operations in the county. It's quite a haul to Good Sam from the areas along the Hudson. At least agencies near the Thruway wouldn't be too bad off, but still. Nyack is a straight run right up and down 9W, especially for the areas up north like Stony Point and Haverstraw. I suspect, depending on location and nature of the illness/injury, that some agencies would either go to WCMC or down the PIP to Jersey somewhere.

Wow! Those are fantastic. The horses that pulled the apparatus must've been absolutely magnificent animals.

Turning off the lights and sirens a block or two away is not going to affect your response time adversely. Matter of fact, the argument could be made in most communities that lights and sirens will save you only a few seconds at most off the entire response. For most "routine" calls, it's not an issue. If you can do the right thing by the patient, you're already helping treat them. Rolling up quietly will reduce the patient's stress level, which is the beginning of treatment as far as I'm concerned. The attitude of "this is how we do it, tough sh!t if you don't like it, you called us and you get what you get" is absolutely absurd and would make me question how anyone with it can claim they have the public's best interest at heart. Remember, it's only a few SECONDS saved (if any at all), not minutes.