res6cue

Our dept generally allows POVs to respond to scenes, but with clear guidelines and restrictions in place. First off, probationary members are never permitted to respond to a scene, they must respond to the station even if that means passing the scene. Secondly, everyone (especially apparatus drivers) is strongly encouraged to respond to the station to get the apparatus out first and foremost. Members are permitted to respond directly to a scene only if they are in the immediate area or will pass the scene. They are to park their POV well away from the scene and any potential apparatus staging areas. No POVs are permitted to respond to incidents on the Palisades Interstate Parkway or in the village of New Square, or to the scene of any extrications. Our system works out well for the most part, mainly because the members don't abuse or take advantage of it. If they do, they're either officially disciplined as the case warrants, or they just get the requisite rash of sh!t from the senior members and learn the right way. Personally, in general I don't like having POVs respond to incident scenes, unless it's an officer doing so. Our members are not issued personal SCBA and often times have their gear in the firehouse, so they wind up on the scene "naked" and not able to do much good. Even worse, if confronted with a rescue situation, they may feel compelled to act quickly, and without the proper gear, they obviously put themselves at tremendous risk. Apparatus drivers going to the scene means one less truck will get out, which does no one any good, especially if no other drivers show up. It has happened, and the member had to get back in their POV to get a truck out, wasting all sorts of time. The bottom line, in my opinion, is that most times having a guy show up with no gear, no radio and no equipment does no one any good at all. I'd rather have them get there 3 minutes later with the truck, properly geared up and equipped and ready to do his job. Seriously, in 17 years I've really never seen a guy respond to the scene and make much difference in the outcome, and that includes myself. I've responded to the scene plenty of times, even WITH my turnout gear, and felt absolutely useless. It might make the caller feel good seeing someone there quickly, but that goes both ways. There is nothing worse than standing there waiting for the apparatus to arrive when you have a working incident. Especially when you have the victim right next to you.

Broadcasting a live feed can be very processor and bandwidth intensive depending on how many users you have listening. Most ISPs will either cap your upload speed or shut you down completely in short order for using that much bandwidth. Also, broadcasting is considered a server and almost all ISPs outright prohibit running a server of any kind on non-commercial accounts. Commercial accounts usually cost a small fortune and you may even be metered on the bandwidth anyway.

Please, tell me how a dispatcher is "clearly to blame" for a 911 cell phone call that has no ANI/ALI associated with it, and the caller has no clue where the hell they are when asked? I don't know details of the alleged incident in the city you mention, but the one in Rockland was NOT the fault of any dispatchers, I assure you of that. The amount of resources 44-Control dispatches for those type of 911 cell calls, like the one the other evening at Bear Mountain, is tremendous. They usually have the chopper in the air searching along with PD, FD, EMS and the Tech Rescue team on the ground or enroute within minutes. Let's keep it real here, ok? If you're going to make such claims, back it up with facts and proof. The facts and evidence in the Michigan case, which we are discussing here, is pretty clear in showing it was negligence on the part of the dispatchers.

Sorry, but I completely disagree. What happened in this case was negligence, plain and simple. It goes beyond just "two people being incredibly stupid". Of course no one can say for certain if the victim would have survived or not, but had the dispatchers done their job properly, at least she could've had a legitimate chance. It's for EMS to respond, assess and determine a person's viability, not a dispatcher answering a phone miles away. The most important function a dispatcher performs above all else is to make sure a call for help translates quickly and efficiently into the correct units responding. That clearly did not happen here, thus the charges of negligence. As if that weren't enough, you have indifference on their part by claiming to have sent a unit when one wasn't, and saying "I don't care". That more or less makes it gross negligence. If fire officers can be charged with negligent homicide in training deaths, and apparatus operators charged criminally for injuries caused by accidents while responding, then dispatchers should be held to the same standard. Negligence is negligence, I don't care what uniform you're wearing when you're guilty of it. There should be no free pass for them. If they had dispatched EMS, and that EMS unit decided not to respond or responded 2 hours later, are you going to say that the EMTs/medics should only be dismissed and not have charges brought against them?

It's a stock demo 2005 Dash 105' HDL they supplied the show with as part of a marketing agreement, job #17145. Pierce is not allowed to promote or post it on their site, which is why there is no info on it out there. It will be returned to Pierce when shooting for season 3 wraps up in August. Here are pics of it from November 2005 just before it left the factory. Obviously it was regraphiced for the show.

Yeah, that transverse compartment Mike was sitting in was the first one to the rear of the cab where a pump panel would be if the truck had one. It's definitely large enough for someone to sit in.

I believe there are some in Rockland. I'll try to find specifics for you.

Aww...that poor horse. I see they're using a Pierce Dash aerial this year, and that puppy looks brand spanking new too. Has the new style grill as well as the Arrow XT style wraparound front turn signals. We definitely need more info on this unit, so anyone who has Pierce connections, try to get the scoop or pics for us.

Good topic, I totally missed it initially. I agree with much of what has been said. I've been part of situations on both extremes of the spectrum. I've been to minor incidents where the panic button was pushed and the next thing I knew we had trucks from all over piling up on the scene, often after an under control was already given. On the flip side, I've also been to incidents where I've sat on the pump panel thinking "where the hell is the cavalry?!" Both situations suck, both can be somewhat embarrassing and the latter is almost always dangerous and asking for trouble. The former, while a definite waste of resources, is erring on the side of caution. I'd take that every single time over not having enough resources to get the job done. That being said, I also agree that erring on the side of caution does NOT excuse poor judgment or lack of training and/or experience. I've been the IC myself where I really had to think about time of day and what apparatus and manpower level I ultimately wanted if the situation progressed, and I had to make that gut call. Even if the situation wound up being minor when all was said and done, I like to take into account the POTENTIAL of the situation. I've seen "routine" calls go bad in a hurry because the first truck took longer to get to the scene than anticipated, or worse, it rolled with a skeleton crew or a bunch of probies. Obviously that mainly applies to volunteer agencies, of which my entire county is comprised of. Incidentally, I really believe Rockland County has some absolutely top notch training facilities and instructors. Some of the best in the country, and the amount of out of state depts that come to Pomona reflects that fact. It's been my experience and observation that every dept here takes full advantage of it too, if for nothing other than by default. Most depts have pretty comprehensive training requirements as well, not just for the officers but for every member. As was already said by others, I think training is key. It's the basis for everything else you'll ever do, which is what makes the initial training you give your members probably the most important lessons you'll ever teach them. Everything they experience and every subsequent training they take from that point on, they'll inevitably reflect back on the first classes and drills they were at. They are most impressionable in their first year or so, just like a small child is. They'll soak it all in like a sponge and retain it forever, so make sure you build a good, solid foundation for them. This way, in 10 years when they're a junior officer at their first structure fire as IC, they WON'T panic and start screaming over the radio, but they'll take pause and do a proper size up and calmly think to themselves "I'm ready for this, bring it on!"

I stumbled upon it while flipping channels and watched for about 5 minutes. That was more than enough for me. In those 5 minutes, I saw just about every lame cliche covered. Black father leaves his family/kid and tries to come back into their lives, not having a good time of it. Strung out medic whose outlook is basically "life sucks, people die all the time, I see it every day, I've seen it all, blah blah blah". Said medic bangs a nurse in the back of the bus while parked outside the ER, only to have her tell him she's moving in with another man. Kid loves the FD/EMS so much that he burns his apt down to get their attention. Fire victim miraculously brought back to live without ever even having CPR performed on her (I'm no medic, and it's been a loooong time since I was a tech, but asystole to v-fib back to asystole then back to v-fib then once again back to asystole for over a minute then to NSR seems pretty damn far fetched to me without any CPR being performed before, between or after shocks were delivered). Yada yada yada...horrible show. Saying that it wasn't as good as Third Watch is pretty much as bad as it gets, because Third Watch sucked hard too.

FDNY definitely responds to calls on the GWB, I've seen both Manhattan and Bronx units operating on it quite a few times. I'm certain I've also heard of them operating in the Lincoln and Holland tunnels. Not too sure about the SI bridges though. I'm sure someone here pays a lot more attention to FDNY than I do and will be able to tell you for sure.

The only depts in Rockland that still have apparatus named/designated as "Quad" are Hillburn (5-Quad), Sloatsburg (15-Quad) and West Haverstraw (23-Quad). Now, whether or not those three trucks have the requisite equipment (specifically the compliment of ground ladders) to actually meet the quadruple combination pumper standard is another question entirely. I'm not sure it really matter in today's day and age though, since as far as I can remember (without looking it up) NFPA 1901 has done away with the quad standard and only quint remains. There may actually be other pumpers in the county that meet the quad standard, but were never called such. Same with quint, which there are quite a few in the county, although Spring Valley's 17-Quint was the last one actually named "Quint". Now that I think about it, most of the aerials in the county meet the quint standard, or are damn close. Our Tower, for example, is right on the borderline because it has no hosebed, instead we carry six lengths of 5" donut rolls in the rear side compartments. Everything else on the Tower meets the standard, and our 75' is a true quint.

Perhaps you misspoke, but NYS indeed does exempt emergency vehicles from all seat belt laws. If you didn't misspeak, then you have the wrong information. http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/seat-vt.htm http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/broch/c-1.htm

What? That's absurd. Are you quoting some official policy or law, or is this just your own opinion? Our dept has our own comprehensive FAST SOP which outlines the training requirements, among other things. It also states that the Incident Commander must call for a FAST team for every working structure fire, as well as other incidents that might require the services of a FAST team. I'm not aware of any policy in place by Rockland County that mandates it, although it's been standard practice for many years now for the IC to call for one immediately.

While not wearing a seatbelt was obviously a factor here, if indeed the door latch was defective, ALF is going to have a problem. The thing is, while I don't think anyone would argue that wearing your seatbelt is ever a bad thing, the fact of the matter is that most states exempt emergency vehicles from the law. Hell, most states exempt rear seat adult passengers from the law in ANY vehicle. So while wearing our seatbelts on fire apparatus might make us safer, it does not exempt the manufacturer from manufacturing proper door latches. They should always be of the double latch type as is federally mandated by FMVSS No. 206. Another factor is the type of interior handle. Most older apparatus has a handle that sticks out a few inches and takes only a slight turn to engage. Newer apparatus uses recessed handles. I'll be the first to admit there have been hundreds of times I've ridden in that back of our older Pierce trucks, window down, standing in the stepwell leaning against the door enjoying the fresh air. It's a miracle I never got my gear or torso hung up on the door handle and flung the door wide open. I'm sure we can all relate to that. Should we all wear our seatbelts? That's a no brainer, of course we should. Does it happen? Not very often. It's nearly impossible to gear up and pack up with a belt on, and the reality is that guys aren't going to do it before leaving the station or wait until they're already on the scene. I recently read an article about a dept that removed the SCBA from the seats and puts them in an outside compartment, so there is no excuse for the crew not to have their seatbelts on. That's a pretty bold and progressive move in such a tradition oriented and "seconds count!" type of organization such as the fire service is. It just might be the way to go though. Another benefit the dept touts is that it gives the firefighters some pause when arriving at the scene, where they can do a sizeup while packing up, helping to avoid tunnelvision. I relate the lack of seatbelt wearing with the habit most of us still have of taking our masks off during overhaul. We seem to have a false sense of security in both situations, even though the irony is that both situations have to easily be in the top 5 of most dangerous hazards we face.

Outstanding. It is "absolutely ludicrous" for a professional dispatcher to ever take it upon themselves to assume or determine any 911 call is a prank. I call bullsh!t. Funny, they could hear well enough to know it was a little boy calling, to determine he was "playing with the phone" and to send PD to "discipline him" the second time he calls...yet they couldn't hear well enough on the initial call? That's why you have a tape running, so you can play it back if need be. I'm glad Rockland has a policy that PD gets sent to check all 911 calls, including hang ups or what seem to be pranks. Some will argue that it takes a unit off his patrol to check a potential (or probable) BS call, but that's far better than someone's call for help going unanswered, as was the case here.

I think that quote right there hits the nail square on the head.

Wish the same could be said across the river. As usual, once there are more than a handful of calls on the air at once, everything in Rockland goes straight to hell. Most of the blame lies with the individual depts though, who you would think by this point would have a plan for operating during times of heavy call volume. Instead, you have every single individual unit in the county transmitting over the same channel. They act as if they're the only ones on the air. On top of that, 44-Control insists on doing a full dispatch for every call, even if that dept is already on the air. I often wonder why we have so many low band and UHF channels if no one actually ever uses them. Rockland really cracks me up. There are times we can be so efficient and progressive, while other times we're stuck in 1955. The idea that a 30+ million dollar countywide trunking system will somehow magically alleviate every single problem is laughable, really it is. We can't figure out how to properly and efficiently use the system we've had for over half a century! A radio system is only as good as the people operating it, I don't care how hi-tech it is. Furthermore, I think it should be mandatory for dispatchers to have some FD/PD/EMS experience so they have a clue as to what is actually happening on the other end of the radio. It's a fact, every great dispatcher at 44-Control has ties to emergency services. Of course whenever the turds hit the fan, like tonight, none of them are working. Never fails. /rant

Speaking of Governors Island, anyone know what happened to the 100' Pierce Tower Ladder that was once there? Did FDNY take it over, or is it gone?

Pics of the Code3 model

From Mike Martinelli's site, when the ALF was still assigned to E34... http://www.fdnytrucks.com/images/manhattan.../FDNYE034-C.jpg

Congrats!

Yes, that's it, you got me. I intentionally started this thread on Memorial Day because I'm an insensitive and unpatriotic bastard. Actually, I realized the horrible timing of the thread only after there were replies to it already. Try actually reading the content and context of my posts before you suggest that I'm being disrespectful or "ridiculous". Thank you.

Correct on both accounts. Izzy...I agree and I think that's something overlooked, the possibly haphazard or irreverent use of the flag. Although I suppose the graphic we came up with for our tower is an example of what not to do. At the time we felt it was a fitting and appropriate, yet low key, tribute to 9/11. Again, I'm absolutely not against the use of the flag or memorial or tribute graphics on apparatus. I just worry that the true meaning is sometimes overshadowed when it becomes more about looks than anything else. I hope that the purpose of these graphics and why we have them is explained to the new members and the younger generation, just like I hope we pass along our history and traditions. As a specific example, new members in my company should be told who Greg Sikorsky was and why we honor him as we do. It's not enough that they see his name or the graphic on our apparatus, they should know about the service he gave and the life he led and ultimately sacrificed to save others.

LAGRANGE, I too respect the flag immensely, I assure you. I didn't need to be convinced otherwise or have my outlook changed, I guess I didn't make it clear in my initial post that it's not the flag itself I have an issue with, but the way it's (mis)used sometimes. Your post reminds me of another reason I DON'T like seeing it plastered all over the place, because (to use your own words) I don't believe it's always done with the full meaning understood or with the proper respect it's due. I honestly believe it's done because "it looks cool" or it's the "in" and popular thing to do these days. PS - Please, let's not make this thread about politics or the pledge of allegiance or unjust wars or anything else, that's really not the direction I want this thread to take.