Bnechis

I want to d omore to serve the public safety in my community, so I think that becoming a city councilman will give me the ability to improve public safety. THe requirements in my city to run for council are: I must be over 18 y/o and live in the district I'm running for. But wait, I am not allowed to run for office because I am a career firefighter. If I still lived in the district but volunteered as a FF out of town I could run for ofice, but not as a career FF. Dose that not violate my rights? Why am I not allowed to volunteer my time to serve the community I live and pay taxes in? True its employeers that actually prohibit what I can or can not do. Not the union, since we established that even in a strong labor state I do not have to be a union member, just pay the fee for services they provide. The States have decided that or lobbying groups have convinced law makers that it was in there best interest to vote on a bill that the volunteers want? I am sure they are available, you just have to ask. I'm sure CSEA or the Teamsters would have no problem with you volunteering with public works. Funny I thought it was founded by the insurance industry (Ben Franklin) for his own financial interests.

Most rope rescues (technical rescue) involve more equipment, including belays and more solid anchor systems. These rescues take more time to set up and complete. In many cases the victim is stuck and part of the rescue involves freeing or lifting them. Rappelling is a common skill. Generally these involve more advanced training and lots of scenarios to gain experience. Fire Ground rope rescue general has only a few minutes to get in position, set up and perform, before the victim jumps. In addition the crew generally brings the equipment along with its normal truck gear, so they are very limited in what can be carried. Minimal anchors (often made with a haligan, ladders or even firefighters), generally no belays, lowering is prefered to rappelling as it keeps the rescuers arms free. This training is much more basic and requires lots of practice to be able to perform quickly without hesitation or much time to consider set up.

It is important to remember that there is a big difference between rope rescue and fire ground rope rescue.

Nice, but maybe needs 1 minor modification, call the building inspector who approved this fiasco, have him lay on the ground and use the stirrups of the climbing ladder on him......thus spreading the load.

Here is a timely article: CHIEF TO RETIRE, CITES NEW RULES Spotsylvania's training standards spark a heated debate BY AMY FLOWERS UMBLE Chief Thomas Oesterheld preached fire and brimstone to Spotsylvania volunteer firefighters at this year's annual banquet. His message: The county government doesn't care about you. It's a message Oesterheld said came loud and clear over the past 12 months, a period he refers to as "the year of hell." His 55 years of service mean nothing to county officials, Oesterheld said as he announced he would retire this year. SETTING NEW STANDARDS His indignation stems from the new minimum training standards, approved in October by the county's Fire and Emergency Medical Services Commission. The Spotsylvania Board of Supervisors asked for these new standards as a reaction to a Feb. 5, 2010, fatal fire, when a resident died while on the phone with an emergency dispatcher. The scene of the incident was chaotic, according to internal and external reviews of the incident. http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2011/022011/02062011/604772/index_html?page=1

We have had the 1000's for 3 years. & have no complaints.

Your dept can sponser you to go to a career acadamy. They need to sign you up and you (or they) need to cover the costs. It would solve many many problems, would save money and provide better service. Its coming to NYS, but we may have to go bankrupt before we get there.

Because they are getting despirate as they see the lack of support from the community. So the 1% or less in a town is holding the other 99% hostage? Who's putting the public at risk...is it the public that does not support the FD (with funds to hire or time to volunteer) or the dept/municipality that fails to tell the community that their is a problem, or the 1% of IAFF guys who live in town how do not volunteer? They dont need a bridge organization, they just need a pay off and Tom Brennan. Remember the Anonted 7? they included the IAFC, IAFF, NVFC, NFPA (and I cant remember the other 3) that refused to back the Fire Act Grant Legislation. THey all work together against the fire service until Fire Engineering's Tom Brennan shammed them and they each got a cut of the federal $$$$.

And after massive lobbying efforts the volunteers convinced the state to make that illegal. Now how many volunteers did that generate? 10? 20? If the same effort was put into recruiting the results could have equalled or been even greater. Lets consider how much impact we might be talking about. In NYS there are approximatly 1,800 fire depts. Approximatly 1,700 are 100% volunteer. The remaining 100 are career or combo and range in size from 4 career to 11,000 career (FDNY). There are approximatly 18,000 career firefighters. Since FDNY does not prevent it and other depts also do not, we are talking about 6,000 fireifghters state wide. My dept. at most about 10% volunteer in other depts. So lets say 20% of career FF's might volunteer if this rule is preventing them. Thats 1,500 firefighters or 0.8 firefighters per dept. If you think that 0.8 additional firefighters per dept will solve the massive volunteer shortage you have bigger issues. The IAFf has an obligation to ensure it's members welfare and in most cases its not the IAFF but the municipality that does not want its employees to volunteer. Based on the previous numbers. the average volunteer community has fewer than 1 career firefighter as a resident. Its not the IAFF that may be forcing the community to hire firefighters its the other 5,000 - 20,000 residence that are not stepping up to the plate. If the standards are not the same and the ratings are not the same and the response is not the same we do not do the same job. Inclusion in the IAFF will not solve the fact that volunteer groups like FASNY continue to lobby for reduced training standards and to reduce the requirements for minimum response standards (NFPA 1720). We would have a unified voice if the volunteer lobbying effort would stop fighting against every standards the career fire service has fought for.

When the IAFF members who work in combination depts. complain about the work condition and how they are treated by the volunteers, its little wonder others dont want to volunteer. I personnally know of at least 1/2 a dozen different depts where the career staff either took their complaints to the Dept. of Labor or the courts and in every case, the courts or the state issued legal orders for the FD to correct the illegal or improper actions. If depts were required to do this, many depts would be forced to make major changes. This is the single biggest item that would improve the fire service (career, combo and vol included).

Some FD's accept previous training, some do not. So if they will give hiring preference will start with that. You need to check with the civil service office that covers the dept. you are interested in (could be a local city or county civil service). Good Luck

George, the University says the title is “Professor”....please get with the program.

1313 Mockingbird Lane

We send FD & PD. FD is BLS, PD ranges from none to BLS. PD policy is to respond to determine that no scene hazards or crime has been committed. Most cases where non trained responds is because the leadership thinks it "looks good" or it generates numbers. There is little value to the patient unless they are providing other non medical services. PD or FD often do this because either the ambulance cant get out (or in a timely manor), we dont have enough of ambulances and have more PD/FD units, and because the ambulance (particularly commercial services) cant bill for non-transport. There is liability on every call. If non-trained responders ask if the person has any injuries and they say no, then its not likely to be a problem. If they are, then picking them up is not an option and call EMS. We have been doing these calls for 30+ years and while we are all EMT's this is basicly how we do it and its never been an issue. Thats about 4,000 contacts since I've been on the job. The concern I have is when you assist someone, are you evaluating their situation. We find (particularly on repeat calls) that many of the lift assist calls are seniors and their situation at that moment is they have fallen and can't get up, but the real issue is they may need other service, such as meals, home healthcare or relocating them to a residence that can better accomidate them (Sr. Housing, Community Assisted Living or a "skilled nursing facility"). We have also found that some of these calls require adult protective services. Sounds like a different issue. Mutual aid should be called because you need additional resources, not because you cant cover a basic call.

Excellent post. Yes what you posted is basicly the minimum standard in NYS for Volunteers. It would also be the minimum standard for career ff's if NYS had not passed additional training standards for career ff's and additional requirements for career officers. This is the problem.

Yes they would, however its been proven that if its done well the ISO rating will drop and the savings are 10-1. So for every tax dollar that goes up, the insurance premium drops by 10. 2 volunteer depts have done it without going paid (but thats out of 30,000).

In a strong labor state like NY, if the union threw me out, I would still have to bpay my dues (a fee) and they would still have to represent me. All that would mean is I could no longer go to the monthly meetings. In a right to work state (like FL) If they threw me out, I would no longer have to pay and they would not have to provide me services, but I'd still get whatever they negotiate. If someone really wanted to volunteer, I'm sure they are not concerned with a by law that is buried and generally not even "shown" to our members.

I would love to know how the local affiliate can "punish" a FF. I work for a dept and answer to the employeer. The union works hard as the voice in terms of barganing and fair treatment. This is the single biggest item in NYS that keeps career & volunteers on different sides of the fence. Volunteers must complete a minimum of 40 hours within the 1st year and have 8 hours minimum annual inservice training. This training is available at no cost to the volunteer our his/her dept. NYS provides this training. Career FF's must complete over 260 hours before they can respond to calls (the actual training is now 480 hours not including EMT [160 hrs]) plus 100 hours of annual inservice training. Career training is paid for by the dept. This is neither equal nor available on an equal level. As a tax payer in a city with a 100% career FD why do I have to pay property tax to support FD training for my dept AND sales tax/income tax to the state for them to provide training for other communities who have volunteers? In NYS (and many others) all volunteers are considered "unpaid employees" under labor law if they can recieve workmans comp.

It was getting hard to follow so I pasted the thread back together. Why do you think a career FF should be allowed to volunteer, but not obtain rank? SOunds like a double standard to me. Do you allow volunteers who are not managers in their careers be officers? What about police officers, if they are a Sgt can they be voted in above the VFD rank of LT.? You want to promote the best, but you are willing to discriminate against career ff's because of their career. I do know a number of career firefighters who do not take promotional tests at work because they like being at the level they are. Often a promotion means losing ones house and becoming the detail officer or lose OT opertunities. They may make excellent officers, but the work rules are not always encouraging.

Yes they are, but you spend more time on their volunteer position than they do. If the VFD's have a contract to provide service to that City, the city is the ultimate "employeer" then they can not work & volunteer for the same "employeer"

Cogs, you always blame the IAFF for this policy, but your argument does not hold water. Yes IAFF has a by-law that prohibits volunteering in combination depts, but how is it enforced? FDNY is an IAFF force and 1,000's of FDNY members volunteer all over Long Island, Westchester and the Hudson Valley. Your state of CT. passed a law that supersedes the IAFF effectivly elliminating the By-law, has that changed anything? I have been a member of the IAFF for almost 24 years and they never gave me a copy of this by-law, never instructed me that it existed, I have heard more about what I can and can do from you then from the IAFF. Now I am and have been an active member in the New York State Proffessional Firefighters Association NYSPFFA) which is IAFF's NYS equivilant and in 20 years the only discusions on this have occured when local IAFF shops in combo depts have made formal complaints about how they are being treated or unsafe work conditions. Our biggest issue with the volunteer fire service in NY is through FASNY (they lobby hard against minimum standards for all fire firefighters). Please stop blaming the IAFF for lack of volunteers, this is the smallest issue facing the volunteer fire service. Thats a really stupid rule. This threat has been used often and now in at least 3 combo depts in Westchester they drasticly are reducing the numbers of career firefighters and replacing them with no one. because the number of volunteers is at an alltime low. It has gotten to the point were many depts can no longer meet the 2in 2out OSHA minimum. I find your miraculous turn of events interesting, because in the Stamford Thread you seam to believe that recruting of volunteers, while difficult can be done and this will solve the problems, when anyone has said it would take a miricle, you claim otherwise. The disparities will stop when volunteer organizations like FASNY stop fighting against standards that IAFF and unions in general have fought for. These organizations believe they can have it both ways, be treated as equals and not have minimum standards.

There is a chart that sets up different zones statewide. The construction required is based on that chart. Note the code was 1st issued in 1984 so buildings built before that are exempt.

You give the IAFF way to much credit. It is illegal in all 50 States under the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) of 1938.

As a municipality the law allows them to apply for a Municipal CON for 1 year (I think its 1) which DOH must issue. This is done without comment from any other providers. After one year they have to apply for a permenent CON. To do that they must prove to the REMSCO that there is a need for an additional service. If they handled calls all year, then there is a need and its generally a done deal.

So you are saying all calls.........lol