Bnechis

Thats not funny, its reality

Maybe the solution is to use stagging. If you approach the IC for an assignment (and he didnt request you), he should say: "go over to staging to check in". Now we find out who you are, what dept., etc. and we can assign you as needed...or not. Its perfect, just like our staffing, response times, training, resource utilization and our mutual aid.

Under "M's" description of FDNY's new accountability system, the radio (when keyed) tells the command post what radio it is, who has it and what their riding assignment is. Based on the assignment they generally know where a member should be operating (ie. roof, floor above, pump etc.). Motorola sells the software to do this (FDNY went with another vendor) and there are other features of both systems that FDNY opted not to have. They include; "polling" which means the radio when turned on in range of the system will automatically advise the system its there, it will also show when a radio has been turned off or dies and showing the battery status of each portable. There is also a way for the radio to use its 16 channel sellector to have 16 predetermined assignments (roof, fire floor, command, OVM, etc.) that the memebr can turn to (while remaining on the same radio channel) and the command computer will place the "radio" into that location group. Motorola & Scott are working to merge this radio accountability system in 2012. Using the Scott SIMS II system, but not the mesh network, they plan on using bluetooth between the SCBA and the radio so that the radio accountability system will also recieve the amount of air the ff has, and the PASS Alarm status along with the current radio system functions (evac, emergency button, polling, battery life, etc.). We expect to do the final testing and training of this system in the next 3 weeks. I will post a follow up once it is completed.

This is exactly what I was looking for. If the officer asks that: the response (in mass from everyone on scene) should be: "Why doesn't the IC, Safety or accountability officer know the answer". The primary reason, is either you are not doing accountability at all or you are (like most depts) using a tag system which is basicly a flawed system. If followed regularly, the tag system lets you know how many bodies are there and after the fire is over and you find the dead firefighter in the basement, you know who he was because he did not claim his tag. Antiquefirelt's version is a slight step up (particularly if only dealing with small residential fires). Placing the tag at the entry point works better...then I know who did not come out of the structure, but it still does not tell me where in the structure they are, what they are doing and how long have they been in (wow 1 hour on a 30 minute bottle...I think we have a problem). On bigger building with multiple entrances how is this going to work? If there needs to be an evacuation, do we know if everyone made it out prior to opening up the master streams? Do you do par checks to make sure everyone is accounted for? Has your dept. done an evac drill? I watch a few, and they went something like this: All units evacuate the building (3x on radio) & airhorns blasting on the rigs (btw go in the basement of a house under fire conditions and you will not hear the airhorns). Everyone comes out and some officer then starts to go thru the tags, matching them up with members. Now since this is a drill lets assume that everyone remembered to leave their tag. It took about 20-30 minutes to confirm everyone was accounted for. If you were inside on air for 12 minutes before the evac signal and it takes 20+ minutes to account for everyone, how long have you been in respiratory arrest?

60 Control to Engine __ & Ambulance ___: Respond to a difficulty breather at the Demonic Nursing Home. 60 Control to Engine __ & Ambulance ___: Correction Dumont Nursing Home Ambulance ___ to 60 Control: You got it correct the 1st time.

Agreed, but is the key is the learning positive or negative. If they witness improper action at a couple of different scenes (particularly if involving different depts) and there is not a respected leader to advise them as to what is correct or not, then they may be reinforcing bad concepts. Well said Bill.

Technically this is true, But in many cases they are not physically able to perfrom that function. Interesting side note: NFPA Report: On-Duty Deaths of Fire-Police Officers 1991 - 2010 Summary Sheet • From 1991 through 2010, 68 fire-police officers died in the U.S. of injuries suffered while on duty. • All of the victims were members of volunteer fire departments and all were male. • “Fire-police officer” is a category of firefighter that is not commonly used throughout the U.S. In fact, 75 percent occurred in just two states -- Pennsylvania (30 deaths) and New York (22 deaths). • The victims ranged in age from 41 to 82 years, with a median age of 67.

Just because their dept was called, does not mean that accountability is properly handled. In fact i find most mutual aid incidents do not have accountability (or they think they have it, but thats for another thread). Without proper accountabilty you will have freelancing. Does not matter the type or size of department.

When in years past, VFD's had more members and there was less call requiring M/A was this less of an issue? As depts are finding it harder to manage without multiple M/A depts. has this opened the door to "you called, so we came"? What if any penalties occur when someone "buffs"? Particularly if they get in the way.

Having read a fair number of ISO improvement statements (which review why the dept is rated as it is) its surprising how many local VFD's dont meet these numbers on a fair number of calls. The career depts in Westchester all meet or can meet this standard. The combo depts. that run with 2-4 career and volunteers are in big trouble, as most no longer see a regular volunteer response.

A "political s*** storm"...really? The "political s*** storm" comes when the public's expectation is that in there hour of need, the fire department shows up with enough trained personnel to save "my child", "my parent", "my wife". So far every department listed (except 1) routinly sends less personnel than every standard calls for. The political push is to make sure that every response has enough personnel, to actually protect the public and every responder. As a chief officer you should not only understand this, but be promoting it. This is not about career, combo or volunteer, how many depts and how many chiefs still thinks its ok to send one man apparatus to a structure fire? I know of 9 (of the 59 in Westchester) that not only think its acceptable, but its actual policy. There are others that think 2 firefighters per rig is ok. Fair enough, so sticking to the topic.....I know more than 1 department in Westchester thats run card says 2 engines, 1 ladder & the chiefs car (because a chief would be a person). So thats the apparatus count. Now you made it clear that you do not want to hear this because it ruins the thread, but its the single biggest issue for Westchesters fire service. Those 2 engines, 1 ladder & the chiefs car were dispatched and retoned for any available driver/crew or rolled with 1 or 2 firefighters. ISO has sent its new staffing policy to the State Insurance Commissioner. Their new position is that since state law requires 6 responders (2in/2out, MPO & IC) to enter a burning structure. If you can not meet that as a rock bottom minimum, then they plan on rerating your dept to a 9. This will affect dozens of Westchester departments in the next year.

Wow so in the village they get twice the response as in the town. How do you justify that? Does the town pay a lower rate? Do people in the town know they get less of a response? Interesting that the town has an ISO 9 while the village is 3, so those in the town pay 50% more for insurance.

I find it in very poor taste to talk about the chiefs that way.....roflmao

LOL...good luck. Since when does the state owe a potential furture employee (particularly of a none state agency) anything? The states best defence is no one is forcing you to take the deal and the primary reason that everything from the state has been delayed lately.......they have reduced staffing in all agencies due to retirement incentives.

NYPD Aviation does have Bambi Buckets, they are kept at Floyd Bennet Field. I have seen them use them on brush fires along the belt parkway

Report above said: "2-story 30X40 structure is on fire"

Same as regular Iorns, the smart ff takes the axe and strikes the halligan, while the brave ff holds it. Note: if they know what they are doing, the head of the fork has been squared off, the the smart ff, just slide the axe down the shaft to strike the head.

Do the compartment lights stay on with the doors closed? I picture the probie checking it just like the little kid checking if the light stays on when you close the refridgerator door.

AFA are not always False Alarms. This is a big mistake in termonology. A false Alarm is when there is no legit reason for the alarm. Smoke from cooking (burn popcorn in microwave), steam from the shower, dust from workers, candles, etc. The system did what it was designed to do, so its not a false alarm, its an accidental or unintentional alarm. It is important that the public understands this so they do not ignor alarms in the future.

Thanks. The R4 Dodge Van (there were a couple of them over the years) was what we had when I started. It was scary to drive since it was overloaded and had no cargo cage (If you stopped short, you would get the Jaws in the bak of your head). In the 1950's we had a Civil Defense Rig In 1991 we got our 1st "real" rescue Shown above as Rescue 54 - Collapse Unit (which it was converted into after the 2009 SVI unit was purchased R-54 & R-4 are full and while we dont have the ability to staff these units, the crews at Sta. #1 (and others) train regularly with both).

First, how often do members honestly question their own depts (I dont mean here, I mean in general)? We have all seen departments with 1 man rigs or "paging for any available driver & crew" ....no response, but no one in the dept has an issue with that, its ok because "we know whats best in our community"? Second,how different are communities? Are there specific needs that different? Great Britain has 1 design for an engine. It is used in 4 different countries (England, No.Ireland, Scotland & Wales). They make it work from busy London to isolated islands. Is this best or would it be better to have a dozzen different designs....maybe. In the US we have 30,000 (or more) different designs because every community is unique. In Germany they have about 10 different designs you can chose from, (more seating, bigger tank, bigger pump, etc.) But again they realize that very few communities are that different. The level of standardization in GB is to the point that the same equipment is in the same compartment on every pump (engine). When there are special local needs they get a rescue to cover that. I got to watch the 1st day of field exersises at Morton-in-Marsh (the National Fire Service College). 6 brand new LT's from 4 countries pulled up (in an engine) to a fire in a burn building. they had never worked together before and they put almost every drill here I've ever seen to shame. They knew without even inspecting the rig where everything was and since they had all used the same SOP's they were able to gain entry, search and extingush the fire like they had been assigned to the same crew for years. We have companies in the same station that cant do that. This is exactly why Westchester has more engines than NYC (and all our extra engines have no or substandard staffing). The leadership of every square mile here apparently knows more than the rest of the fire service in the nation. We have 3 ladder companies (4 ladder trucks) and are surrounded by 6 departments that collectivly own 9 ladder trucks. Why cant we just use them? Maybe its because they do not have ladder companies? 5 of them run with only 1 firefighter, 2 run with only 2 firefighters and 2 are spares. 4 of those ladders are towers and every manufacturer, requires 3 firefighters to safely operate them (2 in the bucket, 1 at the turntable). Even state law says when that bucket is in smoke (IDLH) they need 2 FF's (in the bucket)but may only have 1. Its clear to me that the leaderships educated decisions are unacceptable. Why isnt everyone questioning this practice? We have seen depts in this county that perchased vehicles to "improve" its insurance rating and the rating went up, because they do not understand what the rating standard is. We have seen depts buy trucks that do not fit into the fire station or are to heavy for the station or the bridges in town. We have seen depts buy tower ladders because every town in the parade has one and we dont (oh we also need to buy a smaller ladder because our members cant drive the big one). We have a lack of standardization that is so bad, that 1/2 the county is Rated a 9 by the insurance industry (on a 1-10 scale) That means on an open book test they scored below 10%. I always liked the line: "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem". You come to a descusion board, but you do not want anyones opiniton. No wonder you are disapointed. Everyday we see and hear all of the problems in emergency services in Westchester and the problems have been getting worst for the last 30 years and anyone who dares to suggest change gets us all upset. Even when negative discusions occure, information exchange occures and that can make for possitive outcomes. I often see great post from many on this board that will take the negative and refute it. There are many here who are either new to emergency services or has been isolated in there own system and have no idea what goes on in other places. Hopefully, even the negative will open there eyes just a little. And so we are clear, I do have an agenda. Its to make sure that apparatus respond in a timely manor, with sufficient personnel & equipment and the proper training to reduce the number of injuries and deaths to our brothers and the community. One thing I have found in 30+ years, there are a lot of individuals who do not want that and will do what ever it takes to prevent it.

Fair enough. Maybe it should be called an engine and not a rescue, then there would be no issue.

Two basic issues: What is a Rescue Company and what is a Rescue Unit? The Rescue Company is equipment (including transport) AND enough trained personnel that respond together and can perform a particular rescue function. How much personnel is needed? This depends on the incident. FDNY has the best Rescue Staffing and their are many incidents that require additional Rescues, or trucks or squads to assist them. The Rescue Truck. We have an issue because in Westchester a Rescue can be a regular van or a 24' tandum axle unit. What is a Rescue? A light Rescue? Medium? Heavy? If you own a 20'+ walk in rescue, but basicly only have the equipment to handle an MVA its not a "heavy rescue". A line I always get a kick out of is "Heavy Rescue is the capability of the company not the weight of the chassie" We have truck companies that carry what I would equate to as the equipment for a light rescue unit (spreader, cutter, rams, cribbing, airbags, jacks and basic rope equipment). I have seen large rescues that do not carry much more. Infact often I see they do not carry enough basic cribbing to handle a car underride of a truck or school bus). My 1st question to a chief when laying out a new rescue is what type of rescue calls do you plan on operating at? Fire, MVA, Machinery, Water (surface, swift/flood, Ice, dive), heavy transport (truck, bus, train, aircraft, etc.), confined space, high angle, trench, building collapse, etc. You can not carry everything you need on 1 vehicle to handle all of the above. This unit may respond to all of them, but you must decide what equipment you will put on this unit. And if you can't carry it, who does? Much of this debate would go away if 60 Control had a list (that everyone saw) that listed rescues by capability (in terms of type of incidents). As listed in the squad description, we also need to determine what staffing (including minimum training levels) needs to respond (FEMA calls this typing) with each type of unit (engine, ladder, rescue, etc.). Also lets not get hung up with how many responders can ride in the rescue. Whats important is how many arrive with it and can operate as a company. There are many 2 seat heavy rescues, but they get another 4-6 responders in another vehicle.

The training requirement is Hazmat/WMD Technician OR Technical Rescue Technician. The intent was a squad was an engine co. with either hazmat or rescue equipment. Many of the 700 members that were trained for this did both, but the equipment was divided up based on mission.

Good call, or the other option: Even at 565 mph, I suspect they may have an extended response time.