Bnechis

I understand that you are ok because you followed the local OEM evacuation plan. Good to hear it.

Yonkers OEM is seperate and operates under the Mayors Office.

The concept is a good one, but it still is 100% dependant on the firefighters wearing seatbelts and having no lose tools, equipment, helmets, radio's etc. in the cab. I like the idea of protecting the members, but one must have an accepted safety culture with the members or this technology just becomes one more thing to pay for.

While most everyone knows him as the 1st man on the moon. Many do not know he flew 78 missions in Korea, was shot down (and ejected), he was a test pilot at Edwards AFB. Flighing a B-29 Stratofortress dropping rocket planes, then flying the Bell X and X-15 (which he flew to 207,500 feet). He was the command pilot on Gemini 8 and then he was Comander on Apollo 11. Those of us who are old enough to remember the 1st landing were so proud, I can not think of anything else in my life that has made me so proud to be an American. In 1991 Armstrong had a short TV career on an A & E show called First Flights. It was about the history of flight. The best show was filmed at the Reinbeck Aerodrome (in northern Dutchess county). They let him fly a number of WW I and earlier planes. He will be remembered, long after most others have long faded into history. RIP

This an some of the other info is rather useful, but I see major limitations in much of what has been posted. Who bought what brand is general low on my list for specing (it is high for awarding a bid....quality, customer service, etc.) 1st one must look at your current and future operations. Are you going to use it as a nurse tanker, a shuttle tanker or both? I left out pumper or attack tanker (as its clear from what you wrote that thats not the direction your looking at). Will your operations or community change in the next 20+ years? Since this is a critical part of your depts water supply plan for the non-hydrant area you need to consider how it will fit in with your mutual aid tankers. Standardization of fill and dump times is critical to success on the fire ground and getting credit under ISO. The size of the tank is what most ff's think of, but the most important issue is the tanker GPM delivery during shuttles. I have seen tankers that can not unload quickly enough so they get sent home. I have also seen tankers that can not unload up to 25% of the load. Side dumps can be at the front, middle or rear of each side and there are issues with each. Filling can be done from above or below and depending on how you set it up can require only 1 FF or 5. I'd rather have those other 4 at the fire. Breaking and handling issues are critical with tankers and there are many systems to consider. Jakes, Telmas and transmition retarders (or a combination). Manuverability is also critical as turning around is common. Most depts. buy either a replacement of what they have or what they see someone else has and rarely consider the performance needs. If you do not spec the performance (particularly the fill and dump times) then if you find your tanker is slow, you are stuck with it. Good luck

While its not a "false positive" I used bump/cal gas to give actual readings. I.e. in confined spaces when a prob is dropped down an instructor can use a small HD plastic bag with gas (and I've bought single cal gasses so you only get 1 hit on the meter) when the prob is dropped, the instructor can slip the prob into the bag. For hazmat trainiing we have done the same with a series of small boxes with gas in them (we tape them tight, pop a 1/4" hole in it and use a tape flap) then have the student try to figure out whats in the box or which box has the material we are looking for.

Does that mean my FD can get its money back? Its worth 2 firefighter positions.

The soccer kids can run faster than other kids when the IP sirens go off.

They are fighting it. As they should

Then its time to re-evaluate the members. If they are unwilling to train enough they are of no use. GET RID OF THEM. CLOSE THE DEPT., IF NEEDED and recruit or hire firefighters....because what you are describing are wanabees. I wana have turnouts so I can impress myself or someone else. I wana have a blue light so I can impress myself or someone else. I wana stand outside someones home and shoot water at it as it burns to the ground so I can feel proud that I'm "helpping" I wana die a "hero" so I can impress someone, because I do not know enough to operate at a fire, but they gave me turnouts and call me a firefighter.

If they are not willing to take a few classes do you need them in the 1st place?

After a quick look at other states this was what I found: New Hampshire 212 Hours Florida - 206 Hours Indianna - 180 Hours Texas - 264 Hours (recommended) Note: career minimum 468 hours Maryland - 108 Hours Note there Hazmat Ops is 24 hours VA - 115 Hours Illinois - 330 Hours Note there Hazmat Ops is 24 hours

We no longer have a commissioner, just a chief.

Sage your advise would be very good if this was for a Hazmat Team, but for most FD's this is way to much. We have AreaRAE's and MultiRAE's with PID and transmitting capability and many of our members shy away from them and below HM Tech few understand PID's. We also have Scott Scouts (they are great, but were just discontinued), have had Orions, and other MSA, AIM, IS and a few other detectors. The features that we have set in our meters that are used by non Hazmat Techs are 4 gas (O2, CO, H2S & LEL), PEAK Findings (nice when the member returns from investigating and says the alarm when off and he got out and forgot what the reading was) and LEL sniffer (great when looking for which gas meter is leaking in a meter room of a commercial or MD and when there is an odor in the hall of a MD to find which apt.). Nice to have a built in pump also nice to be able to easy to turn it off. Thats it. All the other bells and whistles are for techs. You can get lots of good info from those meter geeks, but most of them do not understand that most FF's do not get it and they will steer you to the sports car when you need a scooter. Very much agree. Critical Issues: 1) You need to be able to calibrate the detector inhouse. I find some detectors are much harder than others to do this. This needs to be done every 30-90 days (or less). I know depts. that send it out and its gone for a week. It takes 3 minutes to do it and it must be done or the meter is useless. 2) You should be able to change sensors inhouse. A good detector can be done in under 5 minutes. If you can do #1 & #2.... 95% of your servicing needs are covered. 3) Make sure the service company can provide you with loaners or make sure you have your own spare.

No DOH has already told instructors to include this in your class outline that must be submitted for approval. And that NR standard is the standard set by the academy in accordance with state law. Our standard includes more than that. Wrong, its in the best interest to keep it interesting and they will stay and keep coming back for more. Why is this only an issue in NYS? Why is it that other states can do it? Could it be that we are more interested in quantity than quality? Ask any of the instructors at Westchester (or elsewhere) how many newbies they see who should not even be there? The law does require that your dept. trains its people and does not require you to use the state. Since you are an instructor and have only seen it at work, then why have you not made it up for your dept.? If its so boring, then its time to rethink your delivery. I have shown my students what hapens when you mix oxidzers and fuels, what happens to firefighters fingers when they contact cryogenics, make them use there brains to figure out what the problem infront of them is. And most important, staying away from the exotic materials that they may never see. How many firefighters really understand gasoline, fuel oil, natural gas, propane, carbon monoxide and chlorine? Thats what is out there and they will deal with them regularly and often they dont understand them. Yes its hard to convince a firefighter that he is going to respond to a leak of ethel methal death and not just stand back and wait for the county hazmat team.

We do not allow them to go in till they have 480 hours of training and then they are attached at the hip to an officer. Last week there was a thread asking how do you get the Sr. Members to train and teach the younger guys. And I am not assuming, I have read enough stats on the numbers of students taking FF1 vs. other classes. Last I looked it was 3 or 4 FF1 to one of all other classes combined. WHat does that say...it says that an overwhellming number of people are at the minimum, particularly when we know some individules are going to every class they can. Its not often, but failing to understand it can be catistrophic. I remember an incident in New England where the 1st alarm started pooring water on a truck fire. As the Chief was being loaded into the ambulance he advised the 2nd alarm chief that maybe they did not use enough water (3 2.5" handlines). So the 2nd chief ordered deck guns and ladder pipes. The toxic cloud got even bigger and a large area of that city needed to be evacuated. You may never have to handle a hazmat related fire or leak, but the one time you do, you had better get it right. Yes the guy with common sense over class hours is better, but 1) you do not get that choice and 2) I hear from a lot of instructors and they all say that its rare to find new recruits with common sense. The last 10 years? Try the last 30, it just took 20 to close the bars enough before many saw the changes had already been there. I agree that more could be done online, but the hours for hands on is a joke and needs to be a seriously reconsidered. You have that backwards. NYS DOH in April announced the minimums will increase. http://www.health.ny...rds_transition/ Transitioning to the National Educational Standards These sheets must be used for all courses taking the NYS Written Certification Exam on or after December 20, 2012. A general synopsis of the changes are: National Emergency Medical Responder (EMR) will be the NYS CFR with some modifications. Estimated hours = 48 - 60 National Emergency Medical Technician will be the NYS EMT with some modifications. Estimated hours = 150 - 190 National Advanced Emergency Medical Technician (AEMT) will replace the NYS Intermediate. Estimated hours = 160 - 200 NYS Critical Care (CC) will not change for now. This course will stay as-is. National Paramedic will be the NYS Paramedic. Estimated hours = 1000 - 1200 CFR and EMT will be tested on the new Educational Standards beginning with the December 20, 2012 exam. AEMT and Paramedic will be tested on the new Educational Standards beginning with the May 23, 2013 exam.

The regs were set in 1996 and have not changed since then and they are based on the 1976 & 1986 EPA SARA Title III regs. Nothing has changed, I just find PESH always downplays the regs, until challenged...remember when OSHA came out with 2 in / 2 out and PESH said 2 in 1 out was ok, until they were threatened with loss of millions in federal OSHA funding. And while failing to follow OSHA / PESH regs could result in fines...they lay a huge ground work for litigation, and with hazmat there are plenty of lawyers who will go after all the parties to recover "spill and remediation costs". These are very easy to prove.

Sage gave you the federal mandate and yes its very detailed (plus it says you also must add the awarness competency which requires 4 hours) as to what needs to be covered. Based on the definitions in the regulation how can it? 1910.120(q)(6)(i) First responder awareness level. First responders at the awareness level are individuals who are likely to witness or discover a hazardous substance release and who have been trained to initiate an emergency response sequence by notifying the proper authorities of the release. They would take no further action beyond notifying the authorities of the release. First responders at the awareness level shall have sufficient training or have had sufficient experience to objectively demonstrate competency in the following areas: 1910.120(q)(6)(i)(A) An understanding of what hazardous substances are, and the risks associated with them in an incident. 1910.120(q)(6)(i)( An understanding of the potential outcomes associated with an emergency created when hazardous substances are present. 1910.120(q)(6)(i)© The ability to recognize the presence of hazardous substances in an emergency. 1910.120(q)(6)(i)(D) The ability to identify the hazardous substances, if possible. 1910.120(q)(6)(i)(E) An understanding of the role of the first responder awareness individual in the employer's emergency response plan including site security and control and the U.S. Department of Transportation's Emergency Response Guidebook. 1910.120(q)(6)(i)(F) The ability to realize the need for additional resources, and to make appropriate notifications to the communication center. 1910.120(q)(6)(ii) First responder operations level. First responders at the operations level are individuals who respond to releases or potential releases of hazardous substances as part of the initial response to the site for the purpose of protecting nearby persons, property, or the environment from the effects of the release. They are trained to respond in a defensive fashion without actually trying to stop the release. Their function is to contain the release from a safe distance, keep it from spreading, and prevent exposures. First responders at the operational level shall have received at least eight hours of training or have had sufficient experience to objectively demonstrate competency in the following areas in addition to those listed for the awareness level and the employer shall so certify: 1910.120(q)(6)(ii)(A) Knowledge of the basic hazard and risk assessment techniques. 1910.120(q)(6)(ii)( Know how to select and use proper personal protective equipment provided to the first responder operational level. 1910.120(q)(6)(ii)© An understanding of basic hazardous materials terms. 1910.120(q)(6)(ii)(D) Know how to perform basic control, containment and/or confinement operations within the capabilities of the resources and personal protective equipment available with their unit. 1910.120(q)(6)(ii)(E) Know how to implement basic decontamination procedures. 1910.120(q)(6)(ii)(F) An understanding of the relevant standard operating procedures and termination procedures. 1910.120(q)(8)(ii) A statement shall be made of the training or competency, and if a statement of competency is made, the employer shall keep a record of the methodology used to demonstrate competency. So in other words the members must pass a test on all of the above information. There is no way to learn all that material and pass a test in 8 hours, when the state scheduled double that and they did not include: SOP's and termination procedures or equipment (PPE and other) since its dept. specific. 1st OFPC does not offer an 8 hour course. The current catalog lists it as 16 hours (they also say that the 16 hours is included in FF1). 2nd I always find it interesting when PESH's interpretation is weaker than the federal law states, particularly when both NYS and Federal law says that PESH must enforce all OSHA regs to the same or more stringent standard than OSHA does. 3rd The above statement does not cover the fact that OFPC can not and never has covered the dept specific material that is mandated.

Except if water makes it give off a toxic cloud or causes it to burn hotter...but whats the chance will run into those exceptions...you do not need to know about them. And yes water puts out fire, so its ok to stick the nozzle in the window and push the fire around...or do we need more training than that? So quantity is more important than quality? We all know of depts with a 100 members, but only 20% have the ability to do anything. 20% is doing 95% of the work. If an individul has only minimum training, how can they judge who is competent. With only FF1 training you do not even know, what you do not know. The more and more training.......hmmm ISO has required 100's of hours of training for all firefighters for over 100 years. It was just ignored by many depts. who were too busy claiming they were the best. Yes this is one of the biggest issues for the volunteer fire service, but how do they manage this in most states outside NY (where volunteers are held to the same standards). Really taxing ones life is if you get hurt/killed because you or your dept. do not have the skills to do the job. Tell the fire that your too busy to learn all about it, fire will understand.............

Well said. When I saw the questions, I thought the correct answer for a supervisor was not 0000psi or 000gal but how to find the info: a) 15psi b ) 52 gal c) check the owners manual d) unknown

My father always said that 25 is the age at which you realize your parents are not idiots

When we were told by the county that we needed our own system, because the proposed trunk system would not work in our area and it would not do what we needed for our operation, we went searching for a frequency and I was amazed that the city of NY was licenced for over 50 frequencies that were not in use and were reserved for future use. this made it very difficult to find a frequence. We were advised that the only one was beeing used by a small Long Island PD's detective division (with 3 or 4 detectives) and we would need their permission to work on the frequency. They said no. So we found 50 with no one on them and 1 with 3 radios and none could be used.

My daughter and I got to sit in the tiller seat of Harry Howard (PCFD) Seagrave Tiller. I learned to tiller that rig back in 1982/3. Always neat to see those old rigs. Too bad so many are in "storage" and not being made "display ready". Nice to see Larchmont's Engine 1 looking like it just came from the factory (but it was 90 years ago or so).

Typical MV. You are correct the coverage was great, except in the elevators in the MV projects. Got stuck in there one night and the PD portable would not tx out. so we tried that..no luck. The worst was when we went to press the elevator alarm button, it had been stolen..wires and all. Thats the last time I remember riding in the 5 story vertical urinals. lol

I had one of those in MV1 back in 1984...it worked just fine