Bnechis

The NYS Contract for PD cars is "standard" available colors or "Black & White" or taxi cab yellow, all other colors are not factory available. That goes back at least 8 years.

looks like a cystern with a 12v pump (the plug looks like a car jumper cable plug).

Just spike the leftovers once, and it will never happen again.

We have had a few that did, particularly under the tank

LOL...Seagraves extensive warranty for FDNY has bankrupted more than 1 dealer and is reportedly the reason Seagrave did not bid some of the last round of FDNY rigs. And we have had 3 Pierces, 1 collapsed gue to poor design that they knew about and fail to advise us and recall it. Another that spends 40% of its time in the shop. We have yet to find someone who can build one without problems. Some are better than others, the real key is how responsive is there service.

Whats sad is we (I was on a committee formed by the C.E.) found a number of cost savings that were available at both DES and DPS that did not reduce services. That report was given to the County Exec just before he was sworn in. I do not believe any of the recomendations were utilized. As an example DPS averages $20,000 more per patrol car that the average PD (radios, lights, radar, computer, video etc. included) because they do not use the county contracts (that the locals use), DPW does it and charges them the extra. We found a number of other and sometimes major costs that could be saved. Chris, approx. how many new cars per year does DPS get? (I do not remember).

I passed SFRD Rescue 1 this morning on I-684 near Katona, heading north. looked like a mechanic was driving it.

On this day in 1789, Ben Franklin wrote:"Nothing . . . certain but death & taxes"

Your links not working http://www.newrochelletalk.com/content/uffa-273-proposed-new-rochelle-2013-budget-would-chop-fire-department-staffing-17-%C2%BC-percent-#

And this is the argument the IAFF has been using for years (right or wrong) that the volunteer fire service says is not valid. I do not want this to turn into another career/vol bs....but you have really put it on the line. You want volunteers to get paid to volunteer? The volunteer hours put into this can be used as part of the municipalities services inkind and the community can receive funds for this, those funds can be directed towards the FD. True, because this is helping your own communities get power back sooner. While it maybe NSE&G responsability if they are not getting it done because of lack of staffing then does this not help get your community back online?

Its about time......1966 posts and 99 pages to get to consolidation. Good for the City of Stamford

I wonder how effective that has been. I know of 4 in NR. All on private property (none on mine) and some have been plumbed to provide a garden hose.

Today a special drill was held at the Westchester County Department of Emergency Services Fire Training Center. The goal was to determine different ways to deliver high volumes of foam and/or F500 while maintaining a large standoff distance. The following depts were involved: ConEd, Millwood FD, New Rochelle FD, Pleasantville FD, White Plains FD and Westchester DES. Procedures/equipment tested and/or reviewed: Around the pump foam delivery via master streamFoam Delivery MethodsTransfering F500 from the county trailer directly into an engine or portable pond.High volume attack using a remote foam source (3% foam @ 500 gpm applied from 225 feet away, with the foam source 150 feet from the deck gun - Note: The system we were testing can place the foam source up to 3,000 feet away from the deck gun.) The 2 1/2" line is providing a foam solution of 30gpm foam & 30gpm water Using 5 gal pails in a high volume system (at 500 gpm you need 1 pail every 20 seconds) NRFD's foam bin allows unopened pails to be just dropped in and they are split open and foam pick up tubes are then used in the bin, Using an Tower Ladder to deliver foam (3% Foam @ 500gpm from 30 - 40' elevation) Note: above that hight the back pressure prevents the eductor from picking up the foam. I would like to thank all participants and a special thanks to Commissioner Cullen for making this drill possible.

Thanks. I have not found any specific readings, lots of articles. My best recommendation is get into NYS OFPC new Ethonol emergency course. Thanks Chief

While the math may be tough to do. You basicly have said get the number correct or dont do it (in your 1st post) then you say wing it. I did the math for your comparrisons and 10 gallons will work for 650 sq ft of patrolium based products. But if its an alcohol based spill you will need 6 times the foam (AR foam) or it will only cover 108 sq ft. and if its an alcohol based fire you will need 9 times or it will only cover 72 sq ft.. While this sounds like your 10 x rule it does not address if its burning in a tank, because then we need 4.3 times more Thats 26 and 39 times (not 10 times) more foam if its an alcohol spill or fire. Your formula for a 10 gallon x the extra 10 (same size as the training fire) or 100 gallons of foam just cost the dept $2,500 Thats kind of overkill (for a 2 bucket petrolium fire) by $2,250 and underkill for an alcohol tank fire. So go back to rule #1. My whole point is You need to know how much you need before you start and there are a number of factors that calculate into this. Everyone knows not to start till you have enough, but again if you do not do the math how do you know if you have enough? And for those who need to bring the water along, you need to maintain 189gpm for 15 min or 2,800 gallons (at 3% foam solution) for the alcohol fire and 812gpm for 15 minutes or 12,000 gallons of water for an alcohol tank fire.

You are 100% correct. Now the tough part, how many members know how to calculate this. For without doing the math you will never know till you run out.

I know. Just felt it needed a response because too many comments have said it can not be done.

The county dept of emergency service.

Thanks, most depts have major problems with foam operations. Partly because of lack of training and partly because very few understand both foam operations and pump operations (IMO). Most depts only train on hand line and low volume systems. I have rarely seen depts consider the need for large volume foam operations. What about the volunteers? I have seen countless times on this board and others that we would never work with volunteers, even after we have shown that we do, I have heard it. It was. The financial issues are the biggest problem. The training foam (which is cheaper and environmentally friendly) used lists for $10/per gallon and we used about 450 gallons of concentrate. Part of this was due to the fact we were trying to develop policies for not just ourselves, but for all depts that respond to ConEd substations. They asked for the help as they identified issues including distances needed for safety zones. The specialized equipment used included the WC "Foam" trailer (filled with F-500 and stationed at White Plains FD Sta #2). Note: F-500 is great for electrical equipment based fires like substations, but it is useless against fuels that contain achohol (including gasoline blended products). All of the other specialized equipment was from New Rochelle Fire Dept. All of the standard firefighting equipment (hose, monitor, etc. was provided by Pleasantville and Millwood and adapted using WCDES and NRFD adapters.

I think content and history are bigger issues. >> "Volunteer depts hurting for manpower is not the issue at hand." << Then why did they need paid personnel? and why in the 2 dept proposal do they need paid personnel? >> "Stamford was very fortunate to have a system of paid working together with volunteers for years. So much so that many depts reached out to us to see how and why it worked so well." << I recall there was litigation for a host of issues and dept of labor violations over how poorly the career staff was treated by their employer. >> "If the volunteers were to be replaced by the paid firefighters (assume 100 volunteers just for an example) . The city would have to replace them with 100 new paid fire fighters in order for the citizens to get the same level of service." << By standards, if they are replacing 100 volunteers they only need 33 career and thats assuming that the volunteers are responding to 100% of the calls. Also, which volunteer firefighters are the 50 (in the 2 dept. proposal) replacing? volunteers that no longer exist and the plan is to take them from the existing volunteers (so if they need 50 and they get them from 50 volunteers, they will need an additional 50 career, and the cycle repeats). >> "Glennbrook is not example to follow, look at their records what percentage of call the do their volunteers make" << That was the point of the letter he was trying to attack. That the volunteers are no longer available in the numbers they once were.

Wow, what an inovative way to find child care. I Love it.

If FDNY thought the depts in the drill could not handle it they would have asked for more. It appears they think its covered. They all have for the last 8 years. The smaller depts utilize callback for most/all mutual aid including for FDNY. This has been an option, but I do not know if anyone has utilized this or needs to

I agree with what you are saying and I do not know what it should be. But, While they still look good, is there strength loss from exposure & use that we do not know about? Do you know that motor cycle helmets have a 5 year standard.

Having sat on an NFPA committee, I can tell you that NFPA does not make these rules, the committees do and while the manufacturers are well represented, so are the depts., chiefs and IAFF. When the NFPA came up with the 1983 standard (rope) it was all based on an FDNY LODD (x2) incident. FDNY demanded that the standard included that rope must be destroyed after 1 use. Every manufacturer voted against that, but it past because of the fire service out voted them. I do not know if the 10 year issue of material breakdown is real when it comes to helmets. But I watched the testing of ropes that were stored in ideal conditions (kept on spools in a climate controled closet) and at the 10 year mark they lost 10% of their strength (because the air is slightly acidic). At what point does material breakdown pose a risk? You are correct, they can not keep them, so why not let the members keep them. Its just a nasty little game to make some money off the member.

Are you saying that they will respond into NYC, even if they are not requested?