Bnechis

Basicly it was untouched. Below is a pic of it with the replacement Seagrave Ladder 12 (1984 I believe) Its last day in NR found it parked behind Sta. #5. We helped a volunteer crew from northern Vermont get ready to drive it to its new home. They were so thrilled as it was the 1st ladder they would ever have in there county. They drove it home in a snow storm, changing frozen drivers & tillermen every 20 minutes or so.

1) Since EMS is underfunded in most communities, clearly what is more important is $$$$$ 2) It happens in the larger communities mostly do to volume of calls vs. resources (again $$$), but it happens much more in small communities (particularly as a total percentage of the call volume).

Agreed Also if there was not a very strong lobbying group that claims to represent the intrests of the volunteer fire service

There is a term for this, it is called: "Thinning the Herd" In the past we had wars & famine & plauge....today we have "failure to respond".

It is unlikely they will. There is no requirement in NYS to provide EMS and very few communities are willing to jump in with funding to tackle the problem. The State has made it clear they will not get involved. The costs for a small village make it unlikely that they can afford to properly staff it, particularly based on the total call volume. And since the surrounding communities are in the same boat....they need to work together to have a chance. Benjamin Franklin - "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately". (At the signing of the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776)

1) ISO requires a minimum of 2 engines and a ladder or service company (rescue) for every response and a spare for every 7 frontline units. So if a small town has 1 dept it needs 2 engines, 1 ladder or rescue and a spare engine and a spare ladder or rescue. If the same town has 3 fire depts. It needs 6 engines, 3 ladders or rescues and if a written agreement is in place to share spares it needs a spare engine and a spare ladder or rescue. Without the agreement it needs 3 spare engines and 3 spare ladders or rescues. This is because the insurance rating looks at each dept as if it was the only game in town. I think the bigger reason is 30-50 years ago depts were bursting at the seams witrh members, so they could "staff" whatever rigs they purchased. now there is no staff, but we allways had x number of rigs, so thats what we must maintain. 2) it is illegal in NYS to have county based FD's. That is why you can not find 1 as an example

Thanks Marty and congrats. My points were debated very heavily at the time and what I stated was the issue. If a dept has filled out the card, then in theory they have given permission to send the next due.

So the taxpayers of one community have to support the taxpayers of another? Very little reason for the dept to fix there problem other than pride (if they still have any)

A few years back I was working on the EMS mutual aid plan with 60 Control leadership and the policy as I understood it was they can not call for another dept. for no response unless the original agency authorized it (in writing) before the fact. The reason was based on general municipal law andliability on mutual aid. If Dept. A requests mutual aid and the dept responding crashes or has building fall on them, etc. the liability is clearly in GML that the requesting dept is responsable for the rig/equipment but the giving dept is responsable for the injury/disability/death. If 60 control dispatches Dept. X to Dept. A's incident (with no pre-authorization or active request) and dept X crashes, who is responsible Dept A that never made the request or 60control that did. I do not know if this is still the policy, but it does make sense in light of that legal concerns.

It cost Buffalo $4,100,000 this year for failing to meet 2in 2out in a double LODD. (thats just the civil payout)

The fact that in battalians that have approximatly 9-10 fire depts only 2 or 3 of the depts have "FAST" teams that can respond. You are correct, the training is available, and most should own the equipment anyway. So why cant the closest company be assigned FAST? Its because the depts have told 60 Control they can not or will not do it!

The real issue is many Westchester Fire Departments do not believe they have the training, skills, equipment, manpower or leadership to rescue one of there own members or the members of another department. Its criminal that any engine, ladder or rescue can not arrive on sceen and be assigned to be FAST. Just another reason we need to reduce the number of depts. "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem"

No. Albany made it clear that part of the states problem is too many local FD's, PD's (along with school & other districts) and part of the purpose of the cap is to force depts to consolidate. They will not touch exemptions for us.

We have 58 Fire depts. in Westchester and many have trouble getting enough trained firefighters on scene. Many have more equipment then they can ever manage to get out the door and this situation puts the public & firefighters in danger. I suspect nothing will change until a multi fatality fire AND a lawsuit against the fire dist /municipality and/or the chief(s). Its really sad that depts are not willing to solve this problem.

& one retired 1 who drove L-12 for many many years

1) One of the things that is driving all of those airbags is the high end cars put them in because of market demand. Remember GM in the early 70's had airbags, they proved they saved lives ("in those better built cars") they stopped making them because they felt the public would not pay a few hundreed bucks more (and this was back when the majority felt that seatbelts killed people. Are they really built worst? Why did the imports kill detroit? because US cars were desposable and always in the shop. Are we really driving faster? 2) Yes occasionally someone is thrown out a window and lives as the car flys off a cliff and explodes in mid air, before plunging into the ocean. But we know that 99% of the time you are more likely to die. If we hadd not fought against this argument for 30 years another 20,000 americans would die each year (as that was the main killer). 3) Can you document this? I have never seen this before your post. 4) My 1st car was as fast as my current one, I do not see a whole lot of cars that are faster today. The new designs absorb energy so when you crash the car crushes and the forces on the riders are reduced. Those composits are designed to do that because its safer. 5) That vehicle weight ment the car did well in the crash, but you absorbed the energy and bleed to death from torn organs. Your memory seams clouded by a longing for "the good old days". My cars and my parents cars never had a govenor. 6) I Agree!

We use smoothbore, but carry a fog (if needed)

Back before seatbelts over 50,000+ americans were killed each year in MVA's. in 2011 is was down to 32,367 the lowest in 62 years. We have more drivers, driving more miles then ever. Maybe seatbelts were needed back then, but we were stupid then as well.

The county, the State and the Feds have no requirement for reflective rears. NFPA does have a "standard" (for fire dept vehicles) and the manufactures will gladly build you a truck without them if the chief signs a liability waiver.

Actually, its a lot older than that: San Fransisco Tower Water Co.#2 I898 65 foot, Henry H. Gorter Water Tower. Built at the San Francisco Fire Department Corporation Yard Raised by two Pelton water wheels Gorter High Pressure Battery turret installed on chassis San Fransisco Tower Water Co.#1 1902 75 foot Gorter Water Tower Builder: Henry H. Gorter, San Francisco Fire Department Corporation Yard Crew: Two firemen on each shift Service History: 1902 Housed with Engine Co. No. 4, 144 - 2nd Street (horse drawn) 1906 Relocated to 524 - 10th Street due to the earthquake (as unmanned special unit) 1910 with Engine Co. No. 4, 676 Howard Street (horse drawn) 1921 July 21st, with Engine Co. No. 6, 356 - 7th Street (motorized tractor added) 1925 with Engine Co. No. 4, 676 Howard Street 1955 with Engine Co. No. 19, 1300 - 4th Street 1957 with Engine Co. No. 12, 115 Drumm Street 1958 with Engine Co. No. 4, 676 Howard Street 1968 with Engine Co. No. 19, 1300 - 4th Street 1970 with Engine Co. No. 12, 115 Drumm Street 1975 Company disbanded 1975 Transferred to the roster of the Museum Tractor Combinations: 1921 July 21st, converted from horse drawn to motorized. A 1921 American LaFrance Type 17-6 tractor, registry #3452, shop number, TR-25, was attached to the tower. (TR stands for tractor) 1928 July 27th, 1926 Kleiber, registry #4228, tractor, shop number, TR-29 1929 November 26th, 1926 Kleiber, registry #4229, tractor, shop number, TR-30 1961 January 4th, 1939 Ahrens-Fox tractor, shop, TR-42 1971 March 1st, 1950 Seagrave tractor, shop number, TR-57 1975 Re-coupled to the 1926 Kleiber, shop number, TR-29 and transferred to the roster of the Museum This is the second water tower built by Henry H. Gorter a machinist at the Fire Department's Corporation Yard. Mr.Gorter built his first water tower, a 65 foot apparatus, in 1898. That first tower was designated as Water Tower Co. No. 1. When this larger 75 foot tower was placed into service in 1902, it took over the designation of Company No. 1. The 1898 unit then became Water Tower Company No. 2. This 1898 tower is also still in existence. Water towers were ordered to greater alarms of fire at the special call of the Chief. The towers were usually used for fires in large warehouses or at pier fires along the waterfront. They were also used in the heart of the city at fires in the ever growing number of high raise buildings. All of San Francisco's water towers, there were four in service at one time, could pour a tremendous amount of water onto a fire. In addition to the Gorter nozzle on the tower, there is also a Gorter monitor battery on the chassis deck. The tower nozzle normally carried a 2 ¼ inch tip. The deck battery normally carried a 1 ½ inch tip. When both monitors operate with a 2 ½ inch tip, and are in full operation, they can deliver 3,500 gallons of water per minute onto a fire. Under the tower deck there are two 1 ¾ inch SFFD Square Thread outlets that can be used for hand held hose lines. Water pressure is used to raise the 44 foot tower mast to a perpendicular position. The tower has eight 3 inch inlets to achieve the maximum water flow. However, to raise the mast it is only necessary to have one 3” hose line with a minimum water pressure of 120 pounds. The mast telescope pipe can be extended to 71 feet, and with the correct elevation of the nozzle, water can flow from 75 feet above the ground. This tower can place a slightly effective stream of water into a 9th floor window and on to an 8th floor roof, a fairly effective stream of water into an 8th floor window or on to a 7th floor roof and an effective stream of water into a 7th floor window or on to a 6th floor roof. The deck monitors can place a fairly effective stream of water into a 3rd floor window or 2nd floor roof and an effective stream of water into a 2nd floor window. The tower nozzle normally carried a 2 inch tip and the deck battery a tip of 1 ¾ inches. Two sets of four nozzle tips, 1 ½, 1 ¾, 2, and 2 ½ inches, are carried on the small water towers. THIS 75 FOOT GORTERWATER TOWER BUILT IN 1902 IS THE LARGEST STILL IN EXISTENCE IN THE UNITED STATES. There were about 150 water towers built in America, but only five were over 70 feet. This 75 foot tower is the only one of those five remaining. THIS TOWER WAS THE LAST MANNED WATER TOWER IN THE UNITED STATES when it was placed out of service in 1975. At that time there were other water towers in service in other departments, but they were all in a reserve status and not manned. When Water Tower Co. No. 1 was disbanded, the unit was transferred to the roster of the Museum. Water Tower No. 1 has been displayed and demonstrated by the Department's muster team at the 70th, 75th and 100th 1906 Anniversary firefighter musters in the City. The SFFD Historical Society has preserved and maintained this unit in its operating condition. This water tower could be placed back into service at any time by the Chief of Department. 1926 Kleiber Tractor: Builder: Kleiber Company, San Francisco, 11th and Folsom Streets Continental 6 cylinder, 120 HP with solid disc wheels and hard rubber tires 1914 Washington DC (right behind the driver)

Yes and why are they so high? In 90% of the US the state pays the medicaid bill. NYS mandates the counties pay for it through county tax. over 70% of the county tax goes to that alone. 60-70% of the taxes go to the school districts and at least in my districts case the voters have approved double digit increases almost every year for the past dozen years. The same taxpayers complain about how high there taxes are. And the PARKWAYS shut down because they were all deliberatly built in flood plains, hense they all have RIVER in the name of the road (Hutchenson River Parkway, Sawmill River Parkway, Bronx River Parkway). If you "fix" them you will flood villages and peoples homes instead. Yes we should rethink things, but everytime we suggest a change (like consolidation) everyone screams not in my city, town, village. We need to also change the way government is structured in NY, but no one is willing to do it.

We stopped maintaining the grass on the medians, barely pick up the trash along the highway, stopped fixing the pot holes and bridges till they are at the total failure point and reduced police, fire & EMS responses because we can no longer afford all these things. Its unlikely that there will ever be funding for this.

there are check valves in the piping and a control valve under each gun (with dual controls - 1 by the gun & 1 by the intake for each). Ladder is 500 Ibs thanks

The current 12 will become 13. 13 will become 14 (spare) and 14 will be sold

Because they are about $5,000 cheaper