Bnechis

Why so much foam? It unusual in a tanker, unless they are covering an airport or some other special hazard.

1) that's great, Who do they call when its not coming from an appliance, or the utility does not provide the fuel for that appliance? Who is responsible when its coming from improperly drafting of the oil heater and the gas water heater.....the oil company or the gas company? And who do they call when the owner of the apt building does not answer the phone and their is no Supt. (the apt tenants generally have no access to the basement or even know what appliances are there. 2) Our dispatchers are taught to triage, but more important to tell people to get out of a potentially toxic environment, not to go around turning off things and opening windows, this would be no different than telling them to put out there own fire instead of getting out. We also always advise against opening anything or turning off anything (unless someone can not be moved to fresh air). Once you disturb the air flows and appliance settings its is very very difficult to find and then fix the source. 15 years ago dispatch would tell people this and we would end up getting 2, 3 or 4 call backs when the detector went off again. Particularly problematic during a major pressure inversion which forces flue gas back into the home. 3) Our taxpayers do not think so. They pay for SERVICE and they are glad when we show up in 4 minutes and the gas company does not. 4) See #2. We do not use fans until we isolate the problem. Cost several $1,000...A little inflated...Lets see, the fire truck is paid for and sitting there, the crew is paid, either way...ok so we used 2 gallons of fuel (and we buy it on state contract with no tax). 5) the same risk when they do it to any other type of call that they should not. The problem there is the dept policy not the CO call. 6) 1st home owners insurance generally would only cover it if it were a liability issue. I.e. I got CO in YOUR house, your fault, you or your insurance pay. Generally If EMS responds and does not treat or transport it is illegal to bill.

1) then their is no issue with the federal law 2) Then he should not be chief, new or otherwise. The biggest requirement is that ALL firefighters must have the training BEFORE they respond to any call, even as a probie.

Now who would consider an aircraft accident to be a hazmat incident, fuel, hydraulic fluids, cargo, O2 generators, etc.? Federal law is very clear as to the training levels required off the incident commander at a hazmat incident. It is also clear that all firefighters are legally required to meet the standard, but law enforcement is not required to meet it (not saying they can not meet it, just not required to). So if they do not meet the standard, who is incharge? The guy with the gun

Many clearly will not survive, the key is how will they transition?

But how many ships are built with pressboard, sheetrock, 2"x 3" trusses, flimsy wood I joists, etc. and the void spaces...in every wall, floor, ceiling....

? Im sure

Or the third option is they wanted to do it and that's the excuse they used. If the members have the same training level, how can there be more liability with one group than the other?

You are correct it makes no sense. Now, care to explain what you meant by this with insurance companies?

Is it rare or is it rare that we see it?

1) Yes that is correct, I realize I left off a zero then copied and pasted that mistake. I did list the 12.8 vs 12.5 as a variation I found in different texts. Thanks 2) That takes extreme levels and the likelihood of you killing someone responding is much higher than an incorrect evaluation by dispatch. Now since dispatch almost always advises the person(s) to get out, your quick response changes little in this case. This is not the same as the person is not responding during a CO call. 3) Since most cooking ranges are unvented, if this were true we would flood our ER's regularly and people would be dying left and right. US EPA says 5-15ppm is the normal for a range. THis is not to say their can not be a malfunction that makes it go higher, your numbers are rather inflated. 4) no we are just tired of injuring and killing firefighters for no reason. Too many FD's think that because someone called 911 it is an emergency. It says call the FD so they are relived of liability. Our stats show over 85% of the CO calls without symptoms are for dead batteries and if the person would read the detector they would \know it and not have called.

So disagree. I know from multiple cases involving ambulances it worked out the other way. I also know from the #1 winning fire service attorney that the normal liability runs the other way. Yes we are always proceeding that way, my point was that when others misuse the term we can end up on the short end.

How about we make sure that Firefighters 1st meet NFPA standards for firefighting before we add more training requirements? NYS needs 1 standard for that, but we can not even do that. How about making sure that we can get an ambulance on the road in a timely manor. While this is a nice sounding concept (particularly in areas with high drug usage) we have a limited amount of training hours available and their are many other priorities

The temperature does not need to be that at the floor, just at any point that the CO is within 12.5% and 74% and it will cause a flashover or backdraft. Could even be in another room, which explains how fire travels beyond the room of origin.

I am hoping that nobody answered because they did not understand what I was asking. If the level of CO rises above 12.5% or 12,500 ppm (the LEL) and the temperature is above 1,128 degrees F. you get a Flashover Note: rollover occurs when you have small pockets that are already at the LEL, but the general area has not gotten there. If the level of CO drops down to (or rises to, but the heats not there till its close) to 74% or 74,000 ppm (the UEL) and the temperature is above 1,128 degrees F. you get a Backdraft

It was never about space. We met with DES and the engineers when they were developing the current system and they told us the system would not work in our area and it clearly would not meet our needs. So we went out and developed our own system and they were correct it works better, even with mutual aid.

You would have to ask the federal judge. I suspect he believed that minorities could not swim so they had a harder time getting hired.

Prior to 1980 we had a swimming requirement to get hired in the FD. But the federal courts determined that that was discriminatory against minorities so it was removed.

But does this budget cover enough radios per dept. or like last time will depts. get left with not enough radios to get the job done, thus make the system a waste of time/$$

1) you do not need a digital radio system to talk to one another. 2) we have no problem talking to most other depts. since the county, the career chiefs and FDNY recommended adding U-Tac to all our radios. In fact we can use it anywhere in the US.

When we added hoods (number of years ago) we never really looked at them, we sort of just went with a hood is a hood. We had a house fire, fire on the 2nd floor. conditions in the living room on floor #1 - No heat, very light haze. 2nd floor bedroom, heavy heat and smoke. Video from CP shows the bedroom window blowing out, as a backdraft occurred in the bedroom. Firefighters on the 1st floor were standing up, waiting to go to the 2nd floor, all wearing SCBA and hoods. The backdraft caused the living room ceiling to drop, and the members were forced to the floor from the heat. One member received 2nd degree burns thru his single ply hood. There was no heat to feel 10 seconds before he was burned. We have changed our attitude and understand that rapidly changing conditions make the old, I need to feel the heat a poor indicator.

Yes I am looking for what occurs when you get to that sweet spot (at either end) and you add heat. Its a basic concept that's part of basic fire science.

Very Wrong Very Wrong

Nobody has answered this and all firefighters should know the answer. If you add heat and raise or lower the CO level to 12.5% or 12,500 ppm what happens? If you add heat and raise or lower the CO level to 74% or 74,000ppm what happens?

1) While the law allows you to do those things, it does not protect you while you are doing them. If you get into any accident with RL&S going and you have not "proceeded with due regard" and the accident is automatically your fault. 2) Agreed 3) We call 10-20 and we define it as "proceed in non-emergency mode". but in plain speak 60 control often responds with: "10-4 you are proceeding with caution" Those protections are a two way street. And emergency mode does not "protect you"