Bnechis

There are multiple panels, some have yet to be completely established (they in many cases would more likely be needed towards the end of the study) Panels operating now include: Operations (which is working on the mapping and layout of the system, particularly in relation to NFPA 1710, Fire Service Acredidation, and ISO) Legal Financial. Future Panels that have been identified, but have not been formed include (but not limited to) UFFA (thru the 5th District NYSPFFA) Volunteers (to cover the volunteer issues in the district that have them) Operation Details (SOP's, Dispatch, intigration issues, etc.) Political (including Fire Commissioners) etc.

All of the career chiefs were in agreement to have the study performed, even the depts that would not be included in the study, supports the study

Are you saying that political paperpushers dont exist in county government only in smaller jurisdictions? The local papers have spent a lot of ink on county politics lately and I have not seen too many letters of support in the letters to the editor section.

The career chiefs did. they got a state grant and commissioned PACE Univ. to do a study....details to follow

Fairfax county FD's Union is very strong they play the political game and they get what they want...and they are in a right to work state...meaning the union is of little protection. But the strength in numbers...they get results

While it may not be a lack of money in the community, it is a lack of total tax base. and its being split by FD, PD, EMS, Parks, etc. and the politcal leadership gives the money to what they think gets them the votes. Nobody wants to fund the FD, until they are dialing 911, because they don't believe they are ever going to need it personnaly (check on the Larchmont fire...that may be the exception). Which grants would those be? New Rochelle got a SAFER Grant (the only one out there for personel), they only pay 20% of the cost over 4 yrs. thats not a grant...its a coupon. We also got 6 Fire Act grants and they cover 70-95% of the cost (based on population) they dont cover it all. In fact Our 2006 grant for turnouts was cut down to the price of the cheapest gear that in concept met NFPA standards, infact the standard changed between writing the grant and recieving it and they refused to pay the difference, which would mean we could not buy the gear, because it was substandard. We chose to buy the proper gear and actually paid 34% of the cost (should have been 20%). I am not complaining about these grants, they have been a major help. But they do not solve the problem. Also be careful about the pro grant writers, 1) you must pay them 1st (Federal rules) even if you do not get the grant, 2) some of them have lower sucsess rates than inhouse, 3) A dept in West. Mass got massive grants with one and then found out it may have all been a fraud. 1) If not consolidation what do you suggest to solve these issues? 2) If depts have been asking for manpower and equipment, etc. for 20, 30 yrs when does this become the "last resort"? 3) If this is not a way to solve some of MT Vernons issues, what do you suggest? 4) Explain "especially in todays day in age" What standards would those be? If you are claiming that MVFD uses a different standard than say one of the combo departments, you are correct. The 4 cities testing has to meet the Federal Consent decre which is stricter than the Towns / Village Civil Service Requirements. More important dont all career ff's now have to pass the same test in the 1st yr? Setting up a performance (standards) driven department is the best way to solve that

It may not have been a trailer "park" but back in the "day" Mt Vernon EMS lived in a trailer next to FD Station #3, complete with bullet holes from the projects and no running water. Sta #3 allowed us to use there bathroom.

I think the big hurdle to this is has been in the news the last 6 weeks; how many people (not emergency service types) have been calling for the ellimination of county government. I don't see a lot of trust in our county government in general. On the fire side, where is the majority of the fire experience along with fire service managment experience. is it in the county government or in the 4 cities?

"you get what you pay for" Since the department is required by law to provide the gear, why would you not want the best? And the "Best" does not always mean the most expensive. In Feb 2007 we got a Fire Act grant for turnout gear. Because of our population our match should be 20%. we found that the cheepest gear on the market that met NFPA's 2002 Standard, but not the 2006 (no drag harness) was what the grant would cover. The grant requires we meet NFPA. We asked about the cost difference and were told we could make up the difference. Note: when we wrote the grant in Feb 06' we asked for the difference, stating the NFPA change would go into effect before the awards. We spec morning pride because we feel they are superior. We made up the difference, our share was 34%. We are still gratefull for the grant, but this shows the $$$ issue on gear.

Gear options include fabric weight, for all components, shell, liner, etc. So one maybe lighter if its spec'ed that way. Some depts like that because its lighter, i.e not as hot (important in FL or Tx) but that also means less protection. It also may be cheaper.

If this is occuring why? if a dept can not get out MA or in its own district in this time who is responsable?

Lots of issues here: 1) The fire coordinator does not have the legal authority or the legal reponsability to do it. Both rest with the local fire chief. 2) When you have career chiefs who have worked up thru the ranks for 30+ years they may have a better grasp than an appointed indivudual that may or may not have the experience (and I'm not picking on anyone or even thinking of an individual here) 3) Closest available is only useful if they have proper manning and proper training and supervision. i.e. If we can get a ladder MA in 4 minutes with a 60y/o driver and an new ff with ff1 almost completed on it, or wait 8 min to get 3ff's /1 officer all well seasond should we go with the closest unit or....? Actually the chiefs responsibility is to provide a proper response to his area, the coordinators are there to coordinate his requests not to dictate. While you should play nice, this has nothing to do with it. See closest above. This is also the reason that OFPC set up the staging system for FDNY. They check to make sure you are qualified before you can go MA. If you review the training CD that they use and check for complance you find that many depts in Westchester have very few members that actually meet the minimum standards under OSHA to repond in there own district, much less on MA. It is possible that the records are not correct, but the courts always follow the concept "ifits not documented, it was not done" The assignments should come from the IC, not the Coordinator. Under NIMS what title does the Coordinator get and what is his responsability?

FDNY is 110% correct. If you want to be a good EMT DO NOT LOOK AT THE INFO ON THE WEBSITE UNTIL You have mastered the skills. Your instructor will give them to you when the time is right. Then memorize them. I have been an EMT and Paramedic Instructor for 25 yrs and on DOH Regional Faculty (RF's certify Instructors) and Everyone at DOH Training agrees that if you only learn the sheets, you perform poorly therefore we teach instructors to not use them until the students master the skills. You will find it easier to memorize the sheets once you have the background. GOOD LUCK. If you do the reading and pay attention you will do well. My 1st instructor had a good concept: "If you are not trying hard enough and just trying to slide by, why should I allow you to respond to my mother when she needs EMS"

FLSA clearly states you can volunteer and work in the same place as long as you do not do the same function in each. For example you can not be a paid ff in the same dept you are a volunteer in. Federal courts in region #3 ruled that a Maryland career ff who volunteered in a different house in the same dep was owed OT for all his vol hours under FLSA, and all others inhis situation were also. In other cases it means if you work as a clerk for a church, you can volunteer for that church to do painting as long as its not part of your job function. The law was designed to protect workers from the employeer "forcing" them to volunteer.

New Rochelle did 8,774 documented (we figure a cpl hundred more in 2 storms got lost in the shuffel) About 1,000 calls more than 2006

The Newsday Series stated that combined there are 1,200 Housemen on Long Island. Eliminate the duplication of depts and this goes along way toward the total needed force.

The ISO route is the way to justify it. While we are doing 9,000 runs/yr, we cost the average taxpayer $325/yr but save them $900/yr (even if we never respond to a call we are saving property owners $$$). Also consider the ISO manpower requirement: 36ff's & an IC for "on-call" (volunteers or paid on call) 12ff's & an IC for "staffed" (career or onduty in station vol) these nembers are required on every call. How many VFD's these days get 36/1 personnel on a fire call?

We recall members using a web based phone system that calls multi members at a time (up to all in 60 seconds). Dispatch has told us they will not do it. So we have 2 call back coordinators, who can handle it from any phone or PC. The DC advises them how much personnel and they send the message accordingly. Member get notified at home, cell, pager, E-mail & blackberry at sametime. Unless its an all hands callback, members can phone acknowledge (ie. press 1 responding) when the required #'s are met they can advise no others needed. We dont limit to in-town, because members maybe intown, but not live intown. We expect members who are too far away only to call in if it sounds like this may go on for extended (it takes them 45 min to respond, to a 6 hr fire may be fine). Driving crazy? like some of the blue lighters do? All members called back are to respond to their Fire Station (to get gear and sign onduty and call in for assignments). Members maybe assigned to spare apparatus (ISO requires 1 spare engine for up to 7 front line eng., same for ladder. so if you own 1 engine or 1 ladder, ISO requires a spare for each) Often, the IC will request manpower to the scene. then members will go in a dept vehicle. We can usually get a dozen members in 15-20 minutes. This does not replace MA. but it helps limit the need for it.

For the last 19 years we have been using Angus Gate Valves with a 25 degree elbow, pressure relief valve and 5" storz as our primary intake valves. We are working on our next engine and were advised that the above unit has been or is about to be disconntinued. Our options include: Ball Intake Relief Valves TFT Kochek Akron Piston Intake Relief Valves Elkhart Snap tite Automatic Pre Con Valve Hydra Shield Or Waterous makes valves that go behind the pump panel We would like to get feed back (good and bad) We do not like the relief valve on the bottom (can't be field adjusted as needed) Hydra Shields can be adjusted, but we have little experience with the auto valve. Thanks for the feedback.

Our responses are similar with the following exceptions: 2 engines (& DC) on limited access (for extra water) additional engine (not truck) as FAST Lesser target hazards schools after hours is interesting, because 1) unless it is middle of night, may be occupied (PTA, shows, night school, clubs, etc.) 2) We have had 3 serious fires in 3 different schools all after hours. the largest was the High school in 1968 at the time it was the largest (in $$) school fire in history (unditected burned up to a common cockloft then ran 800' off it before discovery) It cost $4 m to repair (that was back when gasoline was about 25 cents) and took 12 years to complete the repairs. With such a large community investment, even with a lower than normal life hazard, We are more comfortable with a larger response.

While they state and local PD's may not have an issue, how do you think the courts will rule in a civil case if the vehicle is involved in an MVA. or even if while stopped at an incident and someone runs into it? Is this responsable to the taxpayers to financially put them at risk by violating NYS V&T, even if the blue lts are a good idea?

Don't we have enough LODD each year without this! If you wreak your private vehicle with RLS on it your insurance company is going to drop you if they didn't know about it. and if they do know they are going to charge you more. If it was my house I'd want the crews on duty in the station ready to respond. Actually if its my house I get 3E, 2L, 1 IC...19+ onduty ff's from 3 directions all within 1.5 miles (ISO requirement for over 100 years) and if its a real incident there is another 2E &1L. My cost for all of this is $275/yr.

The taxpayer is only getting a break if the chief and the department are doing a good job. If they have a poor ISO rating they are costing the taxpayers millions of $$$ per year. In the 1990's one dept. in Suffolk county (alonge with another 3,000 or so depts nation wide) refused to submit the minimum paperwork to ISO and got rate as a 10. Which means the insurance industry considers that there is no fire dept. and they will charge up to 80% higher premiums for the next 15 years. On a $400,000 home thats an extra $1,200 per year for that house. In this case if there are more than 84 homes in the district it might have been cheaper to pay for the chief.

NFPA 1710 Section 5.2.4.3 Additional Alarm Assignments. 5.2.4.3.1 The fire department shall have the capability for additional alarm assignments that can provide for additional personnel and additional services, including the application of water to the fire; engagement in search and rescue, forcible entry, ventilation, and preservation of property; accountability for personnel; and provision of support activities for those situations that are beyond the capability of the initial full alarm assignment. The fire service motto of 100 years of tradition unspoiled by progress is proven incorrect with this section. The fire service has collectively forgotten what the original concept of 1st , 2nd , and 3rd alarm was. When the alarm telegraph box was the only communications system and someone pulled an alarm box, every station was toned out with the box number and would look on the chart on the wall to determine if there company was assigned to respond to that box. Upon arrival at incident, if additional resources were needed the chief would send a firefighter down the street to the next alarm box (or would reset the initial box and retransmit), this firefighter would transmit the “2nd Alarm”, remaining companies would not know if this was a 2nd alarm or a separate fire a block away and would send the same complement as the 1st alarm assignment. If the fire required still more resources the chief would send a firefighter to transmit a 3rd alarm and so on. This standard does not need to address whether a department’s 1st alarm response is 2 engines and 1 ladder (if it meets the total manpower needs addressed elsewhere) or they send 5 engines and 4 ladders, but I do feel that each subsequent alarm should duplicate the 1st alarm assignment. It makes no sense for a department with only 5 engines and 3 ladders (32 members) to consider sending every thing as being a 3rd alarm when the neighboring departments 3rd alarm is 12 engines, 6 ladders, 1 rescue and 3 chiefs (108 members). This will likely require that small to medium size departments will require call back and/or mutual aid to respond a 2nd or 3rd alarm, but then they will all know what is coming and it will provide better protection to our members and the public. Lets go back to tradition and make an alarm an alarm.

We looked at closest unit, the problem with that in our case was, I can get units on the scene faster but no personnel. Currently we get 2Eng, 2Lad, DC with 15-17 ff's anywhere in our dist in about 8 min. in one area if we did Auto aid the time to get same # of rigs is closer to 6 min., but only 12 ff's in another case it would be 5 min but only 10 ff's Look at how hard it is for the county to rewrite the pay levels for county gov.