Bnechis

Since this unit was paid for with Fire Act Grant money and DES is not elligable for that grant, since it is not a fire dept. In this case it is better that it is not "centrally' controlled.

Very Nice....Thanks

Yes, responding agencies are required to remove the material, however how many do? I looked in to this and found out that DEC requires anyone transporting these "products" be a "licenced hazardous waste desposal operation" How many FD's are? How many tow services are? So if you leave it your violating regs and if you pick it up your doing the same, unless licensed to do it. If the community requires it, thats fine. NYS Thruway Auth does not, since we bring the speedy dry there. What hazmat teams clean up the spill? Accident just means no one ment to have an MVA...otherwise it would be called a deliberate. And hitting a NYC cab with a rig is no accident...its a deliberate..... "did I say that out loud?"

The chief went out the window....Hope he bought that bailout system....lol

The chief should not be entering a structure if its a working fire, so he can direct incoming units. 2-in/2-out only comes into play if there is a potential or actual IDLH atmosphere. If this is the normal (99%) A/A the chief can and should be protecting both his personnel and the rest of the public by slowing everyone down.

Our tow company just tows, sometimes they sweep up the glass. But hazardous fluid spills on a road way they will not touch.

Interesting site. It appears there are no disadvantages. The advantage to the dept. are reduced laundry cost and less trips to the store. Both can be reduced in other ways. But, the sales pitch that the member can go hunting for 4 days at a clip is interesting. How does this help the taxpayer or the person in need of our service?

Well Said.

We had that on my HRIT unit (neonates) back in 1985...it was great. Can limit the ability for a 2nd pt. but call another bus.

Our common version is; MVA PD determines its propert damage only and cancelles FD & EMS. Then 20 minutes later as tow truck is removing the car, calls FD back for Fluid Spill in roadway.

10-20 was always supposed to mean, proceed under normal driving rules. But it did not fit nice on the cheat sheets, so it was written "proceed with caution". Everytime 60 Control uses the plain speak with this line, I cring. since we should always proceed with caution, isn't that the law. I think that term, just makes it more likely you'll end up talking to lawyers.

If the officer is not trainined then how can he/she be qualified? Our PD likes to transport psychs to MVH and often has had EMS disreguard or RMA these pts. then they are transported by PD. in 2006, 4 of those pts were admitted to MVH ICU for metabolic problems, not psych. We do this almost every day. Home owner calls and says the A/A was steam from a shower, or cooking or the fire place damper was not open, we send everyone back except the 1st due Eng. who continues at non-emergency mode. We have over 40,000 automatic alarms in the last 20 years and less than a dozen have been working fires. Can't risk getting members or the public killed on these numbers. I bet we have had more workers descovered by just spotting them when out driving (training, inspections, dinner, etc.) Generally yes. But, over the years I've seen a few crews that would downgrade everything because they didn't like ALS. So downgrading is fine as long as there is a good QI/QA program to keep things on track.

At the FDSOA conference, the chair of NFPA 1901 stated that the new standard will require all 1980 - 1991 apparatus to be refirbished and all 1979 or older rigs to be taken out of service. Looks like 20 years before referb and 30 years out of service.

They only require retrofit if the rig is referbished

Note: 1 fall on all climbing ropes, even ones listed as a "6" fall rope. The number is for comparrison only, i.e. 5 fall is better than a 3 fall. NFPA does not require annual/semi replacement. they require inspection. Most manufacterers claim the nylon losses 1% per year just due to exposure to air. General belief is 10% or 10 years is max for nylon....ropes, harnesses, webbing, etc. Other exposure: UV (sunlight), corrosives (note: air is slightly corrosive to nylon), heat will reduce the life. Consider your harness, particularly if it is outside your bunkers

At the LI "MEGA" Show almost every rig had a different system for securing the netting some good (you could undo it with fire gloves on), some I could not release even without gloves. When specing your system you need to consider this. One rig was so secure, the hose may never come off.

Sorry you feel you can ask here for training, but not in a place that is doing it. Our crews often get called out as well, sometimes we stop, sometimes we will review what we covered, but we never go back to bed. Those providers are generally not worth setting up a haul system, we will just get a sked and drag them to the rig.

I personnal use to invite crews and almost never did anyone sit in. Even when I told them I had CME sheets for the class. Maybe when some of the "red headed step children" say not interested and go into the room sut the lights off and drop on the sofa enough times, we group everyone together and stop asking. They were never banished other than by themselves. I worked AMB1 for 4 years before going to NYC and al I ever had to do was say "can I participate" and was never turned down. Last year I ran a series of drills on how to remove a patient from the operators booth of one of the tower cranes (trump & avalon) the classes were on the apparatus floor and I invited at least 3 different crews, none were interested.

We train everyday and often invite the EMS crews to participate. Even if there is not a specific invite, they have always been welcome. Much of the classroom work takes place 20' from 30A1's quarters and the crews walk back and forth thru the classes. It is a rare event when they even sit in. When I have invited them in, 90% of the time the crews are not interested...too busy doing "EMS" - Earning Money Sleeping. Back longer ago than I care to admit my 2 partners on NR AMB 1 and I sat in for almost the entire "probie" school. Agreed Almost all non LEO responders fall into this boat this, this is an issue for everyone. This is one of the reasons we have done some cross training (but need a whole lot more) with NRPD's CIU.....my fav was firing the MP5 at camp smith (can we get them for the rig?). Of greater importance, Over the years I've noticed that many in EMS are not in good enough physical condition to run for their lives or anyone elses, much less get lowered into a confined space.

Chris, it takes 12-16 hrs to teach the rigging, lowering and hauling systems. the "walking" was how much (or little) we could get away with.

It may not be, but in my experience most spaces would not allow for ALS often due to extreme contamination, limited space and other hazards. rescue vs. recovery...If an EMT (even a ff EMT) can not tell if the victim is breathing or not, maybe the training needs should be on basic EMT skills. And in most cases Rescue vs. recovery determinations are based on space conditions not patient conditions...i.e. the person went in to the xylen tank and has not moved in 20 min. if the IDLH level is deadly in 3 minutes, the IC would determine it to be a recovery. I have been in spaces that were over 500' in diameter that still were confined spaces and you would not be able to do patient care because of conditions. Size of the space is only one issue. You dont want knit picking but then you keep giving examples. I understand your intent, I spent many years trying to convince EMS and fire agencies to train for this without sucsess. Took almost 15 years to convince NYS that rescue training was even needed. While EMS is critical to the patient during the rescue, EMS still does not take main aspects of EMS training serious. MCI & Triage training, rescue scene safety, decon training, etc. Very easy, if we need them. Put them in a harness and lower them down. The only skill they need is walking. To teach low angle (lowering, MA & packaging) skills takes about 12-16 hours. Another great skill is how to lower a patient from upper floors down an interior stairs. 24 story tower, elevators out, 300# MI patient day crew is a 65y/o "driver" and two 19 y/o EMT's who combined weigh about 200 Ibs. This crew was able to lower the pt. 24 floors in 12 min. (including set up time)....no carry down. The hardest part was trying to keep up with them with my VHS Recorder.

Since 90% of confined space incidents include a hazardous atmosphere, the proper patient assesment is positive pressure scba or sar and rapid removal. In most cases, it is almost imposible to do any real pt care in a confined space. YFD has practiced CS immobilization and removal, while providing positive presure breathing air in both verticl and horizontal spaces and that should more than suffice.

If you respond to a CSR do you have multi gas detectors, fullbody harnesses, extraction gear (for yourself), SAR and a certified attendant, if not you can have all the training in the world, you still cant go in. Even if you have the training and equipment to do rope rescue, water towers are a specialty and having been up on about 25 of them I can tell you that no rope rescue classes I'm aware of teach water towers, unless its intended to teach it. The first time you climb an exterior water tower ladder and find it climbs differently than any other ladder, because its almost vertical, then after climbing 16 or 18 stories, the ladder tips backwards (beyond 90 degrees) for the last 20 feet and when you get to the top you find the opening is narrower than you are and you have to hold yourself sideways to get on. And 1/2 the time the local FD, EMS PD or DPW has installed an antenna in the opening (because they could not get past this point. Now consider that this is a confined space incident, with a worker inside the tank, you need to get all the CSR gear up, to lower the crew inside (always lash the tripod to the top of the water tower). The MI patient better hope the rope rescue team understands water tower rescue. About 20 years ago a worker fell of a water tower in central tx. was left hanging in a safety harness. Local FD responded and there new rescue team rappeled down to "save" him. 2 hours later atech rescue team showed up to rescue the victim and the trapped local ff's. they had lost circulation in their legs after being unable to perform the rescue or self rescue. Agreed, That was one of the reasons that NR started its EMT training in the 1970's

Its a good idea for everyone on scene to know the status of the water. Sometimes when no radios are available also a quick glance saves asking. If the MPO needs to go in and help, then maybe that dept should not be doing interior attack. This is a good way to get the whole crew killed. If you do not have enough members to meet 2 in / 2 out it is time to rethink what good you are doing.

NR has used it when going MA to MVFD & LFD. We can talk direct to all our regular MA requesters (on the system we developed prior to trunked).