Bnechis

Ok I'll Bite......Tanker #3 Under National typing is it a truck with water or an airplane?

Another issue is what "constitutes" a FAST team? Last month TMFD requested an Engine from NRFD for FAST and shortly after arriving at the scene was "put to work". Part of the reason for this is our engine companies perform as FAST (on report of a "working fire") the 4th due engine is automatically dispatched and assigned that roll. But, our engines do not carry all of the equipment needed to be a FAST unit. Once on scene they have a list of needed iteams, they they will assemble in a common location (i.e. our engines do not carry a stokes, but every truck does). This works fine for us. When operating on MA we are set up to perform as an Eng or truck and in TOM the IC put NR to work ad called for a VFD that was set up to be a MA FAST.

No, but if adding another line will improve the situation, thus making it safer for everyone its worth doing. Once they've done that they have used some air, they are not ready to be FAST again. Better to get a fresh team. Not exactly. In my experiance the approach to FAST is different in career depts than in VFD's (this is not knocking on either). In most career depts. every unit is expected to perform as FAST and the FAST assignment is assiged based on location (i.e. 4th due Eng or 3rd due truck, etc.), if its in one end of town its one unit, another end of town, its a different unit. In most VFD's they do not have enough "interior" ff's to handle FAST at there own fires, they use MA to cover that. Good Question. We should. Part of the problem is most depts are so short handed that they are calling 10 depts just to handle the fire ground without covering staging. They are unwilling to call for more to just "sit there"

If they are bored, distracted, hot, cold, etc. maybe they should be sent to rehab or sent home. If bored.....should they be "rewarded"? Good Point

Yes it is an assigned resource. FD's are required to have a plan as to who performs FAST prior to assigning a dedicated team (29CFR1910.134 & NFPA 1710). There are times when the best way to protect members is to put FAST to work (i.e. stretching another line may prevent extension trappig members) and request another team. In the meantime revert back to your FAST plan until the new FAST team is ready. Rarely do you see additional units in staging. The repeat should not be an issue. Size up is ongoing. Hazards that have been removed are no issue, but new crews may see missed hazards and much of the fast equipment remains the same. Chris its a good thing your in aviation not K9....because you cant teach an old K9..............

This is great, but I think the reason that some are questioning the response of multiple chiefs is because we still have many depts that dont use ICS (beyond the IC) and I've seen a number of MA incidents with dozens of chiefs and "Ex-Chiefs" hanging out, with no assignements. They appear to be there to be able to say they were there. If not functioning as an officer assigned to or by the IC, then they are just taking up space.

Also hard for NYS AG to go after a corp in another state (even if it were still in existance). But the AG (or the comptroler) can go after the village administration if they violated NYS finance rules.

Its intended to surround and drown fires in chemical plants & refineries, for them its worth the $$$$ Good eyes.....nice point.

a) Fill the trench with 3,000 - 4,000 gpm and let the victim float to the surface Fill the trench n with concrete and place a nice marker at the site.....rescue over.

They've been out in industrial brigades for over 15 years. The last NYS chiefs show at the Concord (early 1990's) had one. They can be set up to flow up to 4,000 gpm from the boom

I also feel bad that the FD has to be put out by this. Thanks JP for writing what happened to the FD in this. I also agree that DHS should not have to pay. We have a fire act grant from DHS that requires us to have a performance bond and delivery time penalties inplace before we can use the DHS money. Our finance people advised us that it has been against NYS finance law (I've asked for the citation, have yet to recieve it) for decades to place a down payment without financial protection. Its great to see that the elected officials are willing to spend the additional $$$ to get another rig, but in a small tax base, this issue probably was worth about 4% of the last property tax increase. If it is proven that the finance law was broken, the administration person(s) responsible should have to pay for this disaster. Good luck to IFD in getting thru this.

If you read the previous posts it was stated that it was put together by members of U.F.F.A #273 of the International Fire Fighters Association.

Great idea. We do the same. Our problem is preventing some of our members from using the machines to do the family wash. It amazes me that they refuse to bring their soiled uniforms home because of the family, but they have no problem bringing the baby's cloths to work to save a buck.

At least the pediatricians office does not have that dirty ambulance smell. When we open the back doors to get the stretcher you can smell if the crews have clean in the last few days. Always been a big pet peeve of mine.

Two issues: Are they carrying them for themselves or for patients? A number of years ago NYS gave each ALS unit about a 1/2 dozen kits. That ment each unit could treat 2-3 people. Not very useful at a WMD event (unless you are the oe to get it). Second, If the kits are for the EMS crew there is no system issue (except DOH says they cant be used that way), but if Agencies are carrying them to give to patients, they need to consider how they are going to do it. To approach a patient you need Level A (if they have not been Deconned), or Level B/C if they have only had gross decon. Since it may take 20 minutes or more to respond and set up full decon by the time you can administer the drug it may be to late. How many agencies are able to don CPC and perform decon in a time frame to administer drugs that will be of use? You need to be able to admin prior to decon by members in level A. If you want them for your ALS agency all you need to is pay for them. For your BLS agency you must apply to MAC before you can purchase them. DOH requires MAC to approve your agency.

And Chris: "Yes the County does as do agencies within the County. We have <classified> and they are located at <classified>....They would be distributed pursuant to regional and local plans and in accordance with medical control or standing orders. <classified> has them too." Interesting way to put it. I don't know how many (if any) that the county has, but they were not an authorized agency to administer them. There is a stockpile under CDC's Chempac program at 6 or 7 hospitals. As of last year the only non ALS agencies were Yonkers FD (as an MMRS unit) and NRFD under MAC. The hazmat team was not authorized under MAC since they are not an "EMS" agency" they may have them for themselves.

Its not a spare....Its 1st Due to the Memorial Day and Thankgiving Parades.

Stricter standards........I've seen a lot of commercial providers over the years that had almost no standards (individuals not companies). When you say UPS requires rig washing are you implying the EMS does not require it?

WELL SAID

Agreed, the time frame is set by Fed DOT and NYS DOH I'm sorry I ment, both your individual and your agency as opposed to a more regional improvement. Sounds like, training, leadership, suppervision issues again. i understand how you feel, but consider this, If you could hire all the medics in a system, offer them $200,000/yr plus bennies. You can hire 40 medics, national search, you hire the best 40 i the US, one of them will still be your worst medic and the system must address that. We can not add new things if the current things have not been mastered, even if its the "right thing" Where there is smoke there's fire........Only way they would have been denied is if after the deadline for submission.

Sorry you feel that way. It sounded like it to me. So the real issue is that the EMT program (in general) is not adequate. These are format issues that I agree need adressing, but they also mean more hours and everytime anyone suggests adding training time, everyone freaks out. No need to keep going. Its clear that you do a lot to improve your EMS world. My point was you were commenting about other entities and what they should be or should not be doing. My point was everyone is willing to comment about these entities, but very few are willing to participate. I've paid for many fire and rescue courses over the years. Its oly been the last 10 years that NYS provided Technical rescue training. Before that if you wanted it, you paid for it. What about the career fire accademy? Paid for by the local dept., Many agencies are willing to pay for courses, others are not. Not true. No agency is given any slots. Its always been you sign up and pay. The last few years its continued to get bigger, but they would love to keep growing. Who bumped you...WCREMSCO or your agency? While I attend less MAC than I would like, I still rarely hear anyone requesting these items at the meetings. The MD's need a proposal that covers all issues before they are willing to risk their license on it and if it is not proposed by anyone, we will never see it. CPAP last year was proposed ad a trial was done and the agency that did it felt it was of marginal use. An additional issue, if we have trouble now with substandard training, how do we add additional skills and expect those that are already below where they should be to be competent?

Correct QUOTE(jack10562 @ Feb 24 2008, 05:50 PM) Yes. If, for example, you want to make a statement: "OSHA says you have to wear SCBA" then you would have to cite OSHA - CFR 1910.146 Respiratory Protection as the source for your information Easy. 1910.146 is the Confied Space standard

Yes. If a PD or FD does not have field training and something goes wrong we blame the agency (and its leadership). Since EMS agencies are certified by DOH based on standards, if they dont meet the standards then its the agecies fault. Thats not completely true. EMS students must prove "competence" (the state exam) or the state does not reimburse for the training. When I teach (Phelps) students are required to sign a contract that they are responsible to pay for the course. If they are eligible for State Fuding, they do not pay, unless they do not complete the course and the state wont pay. These policies are to cover the cost of training. agreed Lots of issues, What do you (or any individual or agecy) do for EMS. Call audits are conducted by individual MD's representing the ER's. Some are very good, others are not. But that has nothing to do with the agency's you listed. In other states agencies PAY the Medical Directors for this service. In westchester we expect them to do it for free. "only a few are permitted"....are you kidding? Maybe if you want your agency to foot the bill. To speak on behalf of EMS providers....Have you or anyone you know made any effort to attend the council meetings. Half the agencies in the county have never sent a sole. There are about 50 people who have been or are active over the last 20 years.....you want change....show up! Have you ever been to a MAC meeting. You want protocols....ASK!!!! NRFD wanted AED's (long before it was an EMT skill)...we ASKED. We ASKED for EPI Pens....1st BLS Agency in Westchester We ASKED for Albuterol....1st BLS Agency in Westchester We ASKED for Mark I Kits....1st BLS Agency in Westchester CO moitoring....... STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT MAC and ASK for the protocols you want. You pay for ACLS & PALS for the same reason the RN's & MD's have to pay. Its not funded. To set Standards......We Have a County Mutual Aid Plan.....but we still have 20% of the agencies/muicipalities still have not signed onto it. You are correct, EMS needs to stand up and participate.

Fire Station Locations are done (in concept) to minimize response times to properties, not people. The Standards are based on property insurance. EMS protection is based on population. This is were SSM came into being. If you have a daytime population of 300,000 but a night time one of 50,000 you have different EMS needs. Patient population also will determine EMS needs, i.e. lots of nursing homes require more EMS than shopping malls. For FD's, buildings don't leave town and still require protection when empty. And insurance rates pay for this coverage.

You will only get the higher quality if you invest the money into the system. It could be done all it would take is $$$$ and all the individual services to agree to disband......good luck. 25 yrs ago you had to have 1 year of ALS experience (as an EMT) and take a competative test to get in to the medic class. You had more people interested than total seats in class. Now the state has moved all the programs to "accredited schools". And the law no longer allows the same level of presceening, also the number of students coming in is so low that the schools need everyone to cover the costs.