Bnechis

I've never witnessed "exploding" people. Yes they've added a few new buildings, they also have a bunch of lage corp parks that were loaded in the 70's - 90's but no more. Last I looked there daytime population had gone down. "All the Way" one forgets how the size of NR. NRFD E-25 drove less than 4.5 miles to get to GFD HQ. Thats only a 1/2 mile more than from Fairviews HQ. How are you determining "properly staffed" ? If they needed to call back, sounds like you've answered your own question, they didnt get vol. to fill it out. Bingo Clearly the IC felt this was not an option, or he would have done it.

Since the 1800's its done everyday in every dept. Very few pay "Astronomical for ES".....they pay that for schools. Good question, and how many of them do it not just with MA, but with equipment, manpower or lack or it, training, planning, etc. A safe bet is almost every dept. Nope you tell them that unless they are willing to pay for everything you need to protect them without MA, then this is the cost of doing buz. So if your members (this is geared toward all FD's not anyone in particular) swore to protect the lives and property of the community, do they perform fire inspections on all commercial and multi dwellings annually, thats been proven to save more lives than most fire responses, What about EMS? 1st response to medical emergencies will save more lives than fire response ever will.

Agreed, thats exactly why the career chief authorized the study and why myself and others have been working so hard at it. Regionalization is coming, like it or not. But the issue is do we dictate it or do we allow Albany to do it for us?

i thought you were also....but, you just lost the title.

Function is to tow the collapse Task Force Trailer (replacing the previous utility). Don't Know To my knowledge no members are assigned, it is considered a 2nd piece.

Suad support unit 6 is the bus (stationed in Fairview) wich squad 6 is made up of GFD, FFD & HFD

I've said it before (and wont go into detail) I pay less for my 100% career fire protection (about$300/yr) than many in Westchester pay for a VFD or Combo dept. and I have an ISO 2 (which reduces my insurance costs. Don't assume that because its volunteer it free or even cheap (it maybe, but maybe not). Yes they have a big daytime population. But at night it drops to 29,000 Looks to me like there busiest rig has done 123 runs this year. Thats about the same number as our slowest unit. Our busy units do 5x that. They also have more members per company than almost any VFD in Westchester (has in the whole dept.). & they have 5 companies. How many depts in Westchester have over 300 active members, and it looks like a majority are EMT's as well. Now to date the dept has also handled over 1300 EMS calls....with....PAID STAFF. The paid staff are also FF's so daytime (& night?) they have paid crews staffing up to 8 ambulances (16 personnel?). THere is no mention on the bunking in program. This is info I got from their site. Looks like it works very well for them. Maybe the reason it does not work as well here is the housing market. Monroeville, PA 15146 $198,500 4 BEDROOM, 2 BATHS, FORMAL DINING ROOM, EAT-IN KITCHEN, 2 YEAR WINDOWS, ROOF-3 YEARS, SLIDING DOOR OFF DINING ROOM TO LEVEL YARD, 24X14 SHED, WOOD BURNING FIREPLACE, DOUBLE ATTACHED GARAGE, HARDWOOD THROUGHOUT. 24 X 14 SHED. If nice housing could cost that little here, many folks could afford to stop the 2nd job and volunteer.

Thats not a debate. NYS OFPC reports that the number of volunteers has dropped by 15,000 in the last 20 years. There was a time when everyone worked close to home and could be counted to respond. There was a time when the sales staff in the hardware store or stationary store could respond, but Staples & Home Depot are not the same. There was a time when depts only had 50 to 100 runs per year. We recently looked at the annual report for 1927 (the last year we had vollies) and it showed they had 350 calls with 6 eng, 3 ladders. Last yr we did 9,000 calls with 1 less engine.

While less crews will be needed, most depts are so undermanned now that it is very unlikely. In Westchester, particularly daytime it is not uncommon to hear multiple pages to get all volunteer units on the road, its not likely they will be going in that direction. Even the report cited the loss of 15,000 volunteers in the last 20 years. What they are not counting is how many of the current volunteer ranks are over 65 y/o. With fewer young people becoming and/or remaining as volunteers (often due to economics), and the numbers of Sr. Citizen members, I predict the the reduction in total volunteers will not only continue to slide, but the slide will accelarate. This is not an attack on VFD's, just a reality of economics and the changing generations.

We were told that Hartsdale and Fairview were operating at another incident, so that why the extra MA

Funny...Never considered we would be doing MCI's on the west coast of France. Its not in there

Section 8. MCI LEVELS Predetermining the response based on number of patients will save time. Requests for EMS resources will be made in Task Force* format. A Task Force consists of three (3) BLS Ambulances, two (2) ALS Ambulances or two (2) additional BLS Ambulances and two (2) ALS equipped paramedics (two fly cars or one double fly car) and two (2) supervisors or senior line officers. MCI LEVEL NUMBER OF PATIENTS *MOBILIZATION OF 1 Up to 10 one (1) task force 2 11-25 two (2) task forces 3 26-50 four (4) task forces 4 51-75 six (6) task forces 5 76-100 eight (8) task forces 6 100+ ten (10) task forces (plus additional resources as decided by the IC) *The Task Force concept is intended to address ALS & BLS needs along with the need for assistance in the management positions, interagency liaisons and communications. Clear text should be used for all radio communications. If there are multiple ambulatory patients, a bus or buses should be requested from the municipality or County. This is from the Westchester EMS Mutual Aid Plan http://www.westchestergov.com/emergserv/em...lanDec03-v5.pdf

The Croton issue could mean that the cortlandt section would not be covered by them (or pay them for protection) and a new Cortlandt FD would cover. The Tarrytown FD page says: Mission Statement: To protect the lives and property of the citizens of the Village of Tarrytown, the Tarrytown Fire Protection Districts, the Town of Greenburgh, and our mutual aid response areas with the highest quality and consistently professional fire protection, rescue services, emergency management, and other public safety programs. The Elmsford FD page says: Welcome to the Official Site for Elmsford Fire Department: Thank you for visiting. The Elmsford Fire Department is ........, providing the highest quality Fire and EMS service to the Village of Elmsford and our Fire Protection Districts The Hastings FD Page did not say, but had an interesting line: "Hastings enjoys one the lowest fire insurance rates possible for a community with a volunteer department." The best ISO rating for a VFD is #1, There are no #1's in the Hudson Valley. There are 3 ISO 32's in Westchester and HFD is not one of them. I don't know there rating, but its not 1 or 2. It does not really matter what type of dept. any of these depts are, but I believe the proposal will effect everyone if it goes thru, some for the better and some not. I just wanted to document where I found my info.

Thanks for the input. Most of that was from memory. This is what I could clear up. There maybe some minor issues: Croton is a Village, I don't know if its a municipal or fire protection district in the village, but it also covers the fire protection districts of Mt. Airy and Quaker Bridge in the Town of Cortlandt Tarrytown is a fire protection Dist that is contracted to the village (according to there web site) Elmsford is a fire protection Dist that is contracted to the village (according to there web site) Pleasantville is a Village, but the FD is a Fire District. Thats why I listed them as a dist. Harrison is a fire protection Dist that is contracted to the village portion of town. Purchase & West Harrison plus a sliver under rye are covered by those depts. Mount Kisco is a Municipal and because they are are coterminus Town/Villages it dosen't effect them.

24. Require local government and school district employees to contribute, at a minimum, 10% (for individual coverage) and 25% (for dependent coverage) toward the cost of health insurance. Local governments would be free to negotiate higher employee contributions. This change would be phased in over five years as collective bargaining agreements expire. Reread it......How can they give me 100% when it clearly says that at a minimum the member pays 10%-25%

New York State Commission on Local Government Efficiency and Competitiveness Comprehensive List of Recommendations 6. Develop a simple petition process and petition form for use by citizens wishing to dissolve or consolidate towns, villages, fire districts, or special districts. Wow I don't like my Fire District, I can start a petition in town to have it desolved......... 13. When technically feasible, all city, town, village, school district, fire district, special district, and library district elections should take place on one of two dates -- the general election date in November or a spring date. 14. County boards of elections should administer all general elections. No more slip things past the voters. More than 50% of fire district elections have less than 100 voters and 66% of those had less than 50 voters. In all cases the majority of the voters were members of the FD or family. The average election has less then 2% of registered voters. 24. Require local government and school district employees to contribute, at a minimum, 10% (for individual coverage) and 25% (for dependent coverage) toward the cost of health insurance. Local governments would be free to negotiate higher employee contributions. This change would be phased in over five years as collective bargaining agreements expire. This means even if you have it now or the community wants to pay 100% medical....you can not have it.......That hurts career ff's 31. Dissolve municipal civil service commissions (or functions) in cities or towns with populations under 100,000. A city or town greater than 100,000 in population would be permitted to maintain an existing civil service function if so desired, but an affirmative referendum would be required. That means Mt Vernon, New Rochelle & White Plains would hire thru the county. Unknown how this would affect the vulcan decree, however, I suspuct it would not change it, since the county and state also fall under it. 37. Require all E-911 calls and police, fire and emergency medical services dispatch to be done at the county level. This might have an effect on all services. Harder to justify local agencies (particularly PD) once they no longer have dispatch. 38. The potential for moving to countywide management for fire protection and/or emergency medical services (EMS) should be reviewed in each county, with the goals of improving efficiency and service as well as preserving the volunteer system. If, after a factfinding and public discussion period, county leaders decide that some level of management for fire protection, EMS, or both would be appropriate at the county level, they may promulgate a plan which would be subject to voter approval through referendum prior to implementation. If approved by the voters, the county would have broad powers to coordinate services and review equipment and coverage decisions made by local service providers. If desired, and approved by the voters, the county plan may include transfer of paid (career) fire or EMS employees to the county at the option of the municipalities with the paid or mostly paid staff. The start of county fire services. Note: the county could say...you no longer need to buy a tower ladder.... 39. Allow towns to directly provide fire protection through the creation of a town-run fire department. This could elliminate the following depts: Armonk, Archville, Banksville, Bedford, Bedford hills, Chappaqua, Croton, Croton Falls, Continental Village, Eastchester, Elmsford, Fairview, Goldens Bridge, Greenville, Harrison, Hartsdale, Hawthorne, Katonah, Millwood, Mohegan, Montrose, Pleasantville, Pocantico Hills, Pound Ridge?, Purchase, Somers, South Salem, Tarrytown (protection Dist?), Thornwood, Valhalla, Verplanck, Vista, West Harrison & Yorktown. Thats 34 of the 58 Depts. would be elliminated and replaced with 15 depts. Unclear what it would do with village depts. They include: Ardsley, Briarcliff, Buchanan, Dobbs Ferry, Hastings (or are they a district?), Irvington, Larchmont, Mamaroneck (V), Ossining, Pelham, Pelham Manor, Port Chester, Rye Brook, Sleepy Hollow Thats 14 more.......In total we could go from 58 depts to 26. 40. Require that contracts with fire protection districts list categories of expenses so that officials and the public will have a better understanding of the costs for fire protection. 41. Require local governments to annually disseminate information on the costs for local fire protection, including the names and locations of fire districts and fire companies, their annual budget, and debt. 42. Require each fire district to mail cards indicating the proper polling place for each voter to persons in the district who have registered with the board of elections. See also #13 above 44. Require a state study of how fire protection is provided, including the numbers and types of entities providing protection, the geographic size and demography of service areas, response rates, costs, numbers of volunteer and career firefighters, and training received. Boy is this sorely needed. 64. The following principles should be applied in making recommendations for aid to local governments: Provide positive aid incentives for consolidation of services or localgovernment entities. Consolidation of local services should not result in a reduction in state aid streams. Where appropriate, state funding should be distributed to groups of municipalities who will design regional solutions to providing services, using the federal transportation funding practices as a model. Aid formulas for cities, towns and villages should be class-neutral, not based on a designation as a city, town or village. (Size and density, among other characteristics, may be suitable substitutes.) Full transformation away from municipal class as an aid determinant will take some time, and should proceed in coordination with statutory changes in the treatment of municipalities. For counties, different funding approaches may reasonably be applied in relation to the services they perform. This is how they want us to due it (and how the state will help) prior to those that would be forced.

Did YFD really stop going or did they put restrictions on going to the point that MV chosies not to call them anymore? NRFD & EFD do not have the resources to "write off" MV The justification is pleasing the people that the politicians belive will support them. it rarely has anything to due with fire protection. Did not at least not yet

Agreed but history teaches us that they will not. That would help, but I dont think it will change much. NYS does that for Police Depts. they did one about 15 years ago on 3 depts in Westchester, and not one thing has changed. If it does not have an authority behind it to change, nothing will. Agreed. The next step will be presenting it to the politicians, the media, and other concerned groups to convince the communities that this will improve services without increasing costs. We where there 28 of those times.

Define able. Its ok to pass them if they "can't do the job"....and its easy to define that. The chiefs have no liability if they can show they've requested additional manning and were denied it. It never gets to the mayor.... Supervisors have no legal standing, thus the court would drop them. Commissioners may be the best to go after I agree, but most people don't differentiate between where the tax goes, they just want lower taxes. even adding 1 more man per...is substandard. I hope so too. Note: I pay 1/2 of that for 5 engines / 3 ladders with staffing of 3 or 4......the larger the population covered the cheaper it costs per taxpayer.

Last time I had counted it, we had more. Ok so FDNY has a few more. Every engine is rolling with 5 or 6 and we have engines with 1 or 2 (or none) 197 engines for 975,000 is just under 1 engine for every 5,000 residence in Westchester. While NY can protect 8+ million with 236 or 1 engine for every 34,000 residence. And they have a lot more exposure issues, or the potential for multiple victims on the floor(s) above. Based on that ratio, Westchester could get by with 29 engines (while I dont think that thats realistic, we clearly do not need 197). NYC 303.3 sq. miles or an Engine for every 1.3 sq mile Westchester 433 sq miles or an engine for every 2.2 miles Note: 67 sq miles is NYC resivoir

Has the on duty manning dropped or did they just move members from the 3rd truck? We were there on friday and sat

The MA for manpower or another ladder are understandable, but, water supply issues need to be resolved. 12 years ago Colleton County So. Carolin had a patchwork of depts. like westchester with almost no hydrants. They all had an ISO rating of 9 (the equivilant of scoring a 10 on a 100 question open book test). They merged into 1 dept. and developed a STANDARDIZED program which included all new identical 3,000 gal tankers and engines and moved the county from ISO 9 to ISO 4 (within 5 miles of any fire house & without hydrants) Currently None of the areas in Westchester without hydrants are better than a 9 (thats 22 out of 58 depts, the last time I looked). How did they pay for it? The ISO improvements saved every property owner 40% on their insurance. In this county thats worth many millions every year

Thats exactly why the career chiefs commissioned the study If the chiefs propose a change will the unions back it? The politicians will never go for it unless they see someone supporting it and it not costing them any $$$

And are tired of the fact that important issues get 10 posts and blue lights get 70. Also everytime the issue of paid vs. vollie, even if its not nasty there is the rapid threat from 1/2 a doz. censors. Most (not all) I can only think of about 1/2 doz (out of 58) that don't routinly call for MA for a working fire. Money is a major part of it, but control is also. If you can't get the rigs out the door, but you can float a bond for a new tower ladder, its more about control. That does not mean that money is not a major issue. VFD's will continue till the State laws change (as proposed). Lawsuits wont due it and the fines for killing a ff can be paid for with petty cash. While the communities may not want to pay, I have rarely heard any depts. complain publicly that they have a problem. The communities have very little knowledge of any issue with manning or response. The volunteers rarely mention it, many of the unions push it (and are considered to be only interested in increasing membership, by the community, politicians & sometimes the chiefs) And often the chiefs only push it behind closed doors, so the public does not know. Aim Higher...like having the state change the rules of the game? They don't know if we show up or not. They dont look to see cars at the FD, they see a red truck sitting inside and know that they are protected. Thanks, hard to call it the sound shore, but I go the point

While the report addresses almost every aspect of problems with local gov. It does not address the problems of County and State Gov. In looking at all of the recomendations, there is something to upset every interest group. Besides the cuts to career FD's how many VFD's in Westchester are ready to give up the rigs that they cant man? In the real world (without FD boarders no station would need more than 1 engine and 1 ladder or tanker...so how many of the VFD's would not need 2 or 3 engines in the house?