Bnechis

Does the town even need to do this? I've said consolidate, they will save money, will need fewer rigs and this not need a big expensive station upgrade. I've also said that before someone claims the VFD is saving them money, to prove it. I do not know how many FF's BH, BV & KFD have, how active they are and can they properly staff 24/7 so the concept of hiring 60 FF's is nuts, unless they can't provide proper staffing and not one post here has suggested that. What is the cost of fire protection?

Most career stations are cramped for space on the apparatus floor and they are doing 1,000's of calls a year not 100's. Doing less than 1 call per day and this is a problem. Our slowest station is doing 4x that and we are not running to the tax payers to "fix" it. Because it is not really a need in the current economic times. What law requires that? All of our fire houses are public buildings also, and none have elevators. There is no requirement to make all parts of the house open to the public. We are allowed to have "private" areas. How many fire stations in FDNY, Yonkers, New Rochelle, Eastchester, Mt Vernon, White Plains have gone 75+ years without, and under much heavier use and they don't seem to need or deserve it?

It's a good thing that someone here knew the answer, now NRFD does not need to make the tuff choice as to who to contract with....what a relief.

ISO will only tell you how many 1's 2's, 3's etc. there are in each state. They inform the chief of every dept. and the chief elected official (mayor, supervisor or chairman of the board of Fire Commissioners). It can often be obtained from a local insurance agency. ISO makes its money by selling that info to every insurance company, so everyone tends to hold it close to the vest. Every fire chief or chief elected official can also request a copy of their "improvement statement" which explains the score they got.

Just because a department is active, has good response times and good training Does NOT mean they DESERVE an upgrade. Either they needed it because the facilities are not sufficient or unsafe, or not cost effective (maybe a new facility would reduce costs on running the district, because of energy savings and current high maintenance cost), but just because a department does a good job does not mean the deserve anything except the thanks of the community and it does not need need to cost $6.5m

depends which one. A toke a few and saw a few. That was an interesting call, we were in our bunks in the garage on Ashburton and we were blown out of our beds, thought a truck hit our building.

We wanted to, but they wanted to charge us three T-Shirts a the mark up was too high. We knew it was only worth one (plus a kids T-shirt for profit).

Most departments send 2 rigs & a chief to any call on a highway. 1 to block, the other to deal with the incident and the chief to keep an eye on the safety of everyone.

My point was: 1) that instead of placing additional burdens on the taxpayers, consolidate to get a bigger tax base and at the same time you won't need the additional space and apparatus. 2) when someone claims that VFD's cost less, so its ok to ask for extra $$$ I have to look at the per capita costs and what it shows is that the per capita costs drop with the larger populations even if they spend 10 to 30 times more (due to staff). Even if BMFD was to provide similar career service as NR, they would not need 5 stations and the manpower we have. So this number would drop 60% or more. You really cant compare the total amount paid, since it does not relect the needs for personnel and equipment/stations. But the per capita is a great way to compare the cost (but not the service level) of one department to another.

I'll never tell....hehehehe

1) That $100 - $200 is in addition to what they are already costing you. 2) They have an ISO rating of 9 (in the non-hydrant portion of town) which is 70% of there district. There are VFD's with ISO 4 in non-hydrant areas. A 9 is 10% on an open book test, a 4 is a 60%. In school you get the 1st for spelling your name, the 2nd is still an F. But if they move from a 9 to a 4 they save every property about 40% per year on their property insurance. 3) Just because they are volunteers does not mean they are saving you money. The average property owner in my city pays $325 per yr to support a 100% career FD. According to BMFD's 2008 Adopted Budget ($947,290), I figure the average taxpayer in there district is paying $353 per year to support a 100% VFD. Plus we pay 56% less in fire insurance. So if this is past they could be paying $553/yr...assuming there are no cost overruns in building this project. While this is not a big bill, its only about 3% of there total property tax bill.

Mt Pleasant also includes Archville FD and Sleepy Hollow FD and a portion of Briarcliff Manor FD, plus the Grasslands Fire Brigade My dept protects 73,260 in 10.4 sq miles with 5 engines, 1 tower ladder, 2 ladders & 1 DC in 5 fire stations, with an ISO rating of 2 The town of Mt. pleasant and its villages have a population of 43,221 in 27.7 square miles (with a lot of resevior and protected parkland). The 7 depts (not including BMFD or GFB) have approximatly 18 engines, 5 tower ladders, 1 ladder, 2 tankers, 3 rescues, 2 rescue/pumpers, 1 mini attack, 7 utilities and 21 chiefs, in 12 fire stations. ISO ratings range from 3 or 4 (not sure what is current in 1 dept) up to 9 (note: 10 is no fire protection). Appears to be overkill. Even if one equalizes the sq. miles, based on NFPA & ISO standards they would need about 13 engines and 5 ladders (1 or 2 towers) and 1 rescue. thats a savings of at least 7 million in fleet replacement, plus the cost of maintaining them, insuring them and housing them. The other qustion is can the departments fill all the seats (120 if only seating 4) or even get enough drivers to get them on the road?

Thats what got us the title of highest taxed county in America. And its not right. Alot of people particularly Sr.'s who've lived here there whole lives are being chased out. They never asked for this. The taxpayers have been told that they have excellent fire protection. BHFD states that they have 100 members on there web site, so that must mean the taxpayers have great protection....right? The people managing the money are the ones who keep asking for more and bgger rigs and stations, while they have fewer ff's responding to calls. So for $8 m they did 2 stations and they are doing 2.5 times more calls. And the tax problem in Westchester is because of just this....the FD added a bond, the Library added a bond, I bet the school district added a bond, and the sewer district, the water district and who knows what else. How many people voted for the FD Bond? how many even knew about the vote? And how many that voted for one bond (that they wanted) complained about their taxes for the other bonds. We are borrowing from our Kids and they will never be able to pay the bill.

Your right no one should work in unsafe conditions. But what is considerd unsafe? Not having an elevator? Bathrooms that are not ADA complient? There only safety issue is its a little crowded. There are lots of fire stations in Westchester that are unsafe, I can think of at least 6 that have major structural issues and need to be condemed. I know of stations with substandard electrical, plumbing, space, failing lead paint and ADA issues, plus its been discusses here about infestations of rodents and bugs in some stations. There are lots of fire stations in Westchester that are crowded. 4 of my depts 5 stations have back to back rigs and we are doing 8,500 more runs a year than BH. We asked for $800,000 (awaiting a no answer) to add rig space for 8 rigs/trailers, but not because we felt it was a safety issue, because we have equipment parked outside.

Having not been in there house in many years, I know many depts that are in worst shape. I've seen their rigs and they clearly take pride in them. $6,500,000 is a reasonable price? for who? There budget equates to $900 per sq. ft. The current building rates (For Metro NY, from the web, for what its worth) is $300-500 per sq. ft. Yes its one station, but if every department in Westchester were to do the same (with just one station) It would cost $377 Million. If the 3 depts in the Town of Bedford were to become one FD (as proposed by Govenor Patterson in this years state budget) would BHFD need the extra room? Particularly since in another thread you sugest BFD also expand its facilites. What communities are demanding is reducing the tax burdon on the #1 taxed county in the US. Nowhere in the press release did they mention "aesthetics". According to BHFD the district is 17 sq miles with 15,000 residence According to the last census (2000) there are 18,133 residence in the 39 sq. mile Town of Bedford. There are 6,020 housing units within the town, with 4,800 single family homes. Bedford Hills covers approximatly 44% of the town. Assuming that they have that % of homes, they have 2,112 homes. At $6.5 mil thats an average additional cost per home of $3,078 not including interest (over the life of the bond) While the Town of Bedford is know for those expensive homes, I was surprised at what the census figures, showed: Amount # of Homes % Less than $200,000 169 5% $200,000 to $299,999 604 16% $300,000 to $399,999 783 21% $400,000 to $499,999 610 17% $500,000 to $749,999 602 16% $750,000 to $999,999 328 9% $1,000,000 or more 590 16% Total Single Family Homes 3,686 100% Average Value: $498,999 Now these are figures are from the 2000 census (and there are 2 different amounts for the # of single family homes in the town) and consider that homes may have gone up 3X in value since 2000 and only 44% of these homes are in the district. Sorry for the rant. I see lots of money being spent by lots of FD's in Westchester and everyone on this board keeps saying how great all of this is, and I wonder if its actually helping fire protection. At some point the bank will break and then what do we do.

Seth I can......a quint is a rig that carries a pump, water, hose, ladders and an ariel device. But you already knew that. Sorry I had to do it And my personnal opinion: A quint can be a good engine but a poor truck (not enough ladders and truck tools) A quint can be a good truck but a poor engine (not enough water and/or hose) A quint can be a poor engine and a poor truck (not enough of all of the above) or a good truck and a good engine, but then its way to big to get down the streets, particularly in the northeast. And almost never enough personnel to do the job of an engine and a truck

Its not a tanker, its a rescue pumper. Can you get a taller hosebed? The truckies will be needed to get up there to pack it.

Wasn't the 1st class in 1986?

My understanding is the career chiefs no longer have "ownership" of the academy While any dept. can send them to MF. My understanding is when Westchester proposed that they no loger hold the academy in Westchester, the State said they could not accomadate Westchester, because they were full.

Very true, but maybe the question should be who is responsable for paying for this training. Every dept. (career and vol) is required by law to ensure their "employees" are trained. For the volunteers, OFPC pays the majorty of the cost with the county picking up the remaining costs. This means that the taxpayers in my city pay for that. For upstate departments that send career ff's to Montor Falls for the career acadamy they are charged $500 per student, at westchester the cost is 3-5x that. That means either westchester is charging to much or that the taxpayers in my city are subsidizing the training of upstate career fire depts. Either way, why do the taxpayers of NYC, Yonkers, New Rochelle, Mt. Vernon, White Plains, Eastchester, Fairview, Hartsdale and greenville have to pay for the training of its firefighters and subsidize the training of all other ff's in NYS? Agreed, they provide 1st rate training. If your saying that this training is so much better (and it is) then you are also implying that the training that everyone else is substandard, are you not? While there is nothing more important than your training, the departments all have a set budget and if they have to pay higher and higher accademy costs, then they will have to cut other costs, which may affect the ability of them to deliver other training or services. If my taxpayers have to pay for this training, how come the taxpayers in other communities are given a free ride?

I can only think of about 10% of the municipalities in Westchester that might have even the slightest clue as to how many "firefighters" they have. 1) they don't care 2) they don't want to know 3) we bought all those expensive trucks, they must have people to drive them...right? 4) How many depts are required to produce an annual report to the community/municipality & how many actually do? 5) How many depts are honest with themselves as to how many members they have and how many are actually "firefighters" I know many depts in Westchester that have claimed to have X firefighters but, less than 5% show up on average to calls. I know depts. that have to request multiple departments mutual aid for simple room & content fires, guess they dont have the members they want the community to believe they have. I know depts. that can't get an engine and truck out for a call, so lets buy a quint, then we need 1/2 the numbers to respond (not that we will be able to do anything when we get there). Municipalities have the blinders on. Hopefully you wont need the services that they hope they have.

You are correct there is no exemption, there are DOL requlations that say you cant wear non-fire resistant materials when fighting a fire, but the feds are not considering that. The whole issue is laid out on the RKB website https://www.rkb.us/contentdetail.cfm?content_id=200647

Since its based on federal funding any road not just highway's. Anything with a route # is probable included.

Technology has been known to fail. I've had I-pages delayed for hours. Whats your back-up system? ISO gives credit for a back-up (just needs to be tested, not used every day for calls might reduce complaints). Also good for alerting the community. thats why the NRC requires IP to maintain them (not that knowing about a melt down will help you).

"The NJ State Firemen's Parade is a four and a half hour - two mile long parade starting in Wildwood Crest and ending in North Wildwood. Over 300 pieces of Apparatus from over 4 states compete for prizes." 300 x $500,000 (average, equipped) = $150 MILLION Dollars worth of equipment, that by being in wildwood their depts prove is not needed to protect the taxpayers who paid for them. No wonder the northeast is taxing itself right out of existance.