Bnechis

This is basically what ISO is looking for in proving you can move water and improving your rating. The departments that have been most sucsessful have done a few things a little differently than what is in this pic: 1) Drive in / drive out since you will be on the clock, its faster & safer than backing in. 2) Drop tanks placed in an offset diamond instead of edge to edge 3) Use of squirral tails and other manpower reducing tactics, because everymember working the water supply is not fighting the fire. ISO will kill you on this. 4) Using a ventury (sp) system (2.5" into 6" hard suction) reduces your ISO pump rating. There are other ways to do this.

Excellent Make sure to have solid GIS maps, and document everything. You need to determine the total GPM per tanker and then work on improvinging that GPM. Fill time + drop time + travel time divided by actual water dumped per trip/per tanker = Tanker GPM THe travel time is calculated by ISO based on your GIS mapping Agreed, If I can be of assistance, 2083 knows how to find me.

How do you define "out of control" and "total loss"? Most depts that have areas that require tankers respond with a minimum of 4,000 to 6,000 gallons on wheels. If you use 3,000 gallons in an initial attack and have not got it under control you need to set up a shuttle (2 to 8 tankers) and if they are not already inroute you are way behind the 8 ball. If you respond in a hydrant area and flow 2 handlines for at a total of 300 gpm and have not got it under control, then its out of control & you may also end up with a total loss. The amount of water needed determines if its "out of control" and the amount of damage (fire, smoke, water, FD activity) determines "total loss" It is much harder, takes more manpower and the outcomes are more lickly to be negative in areas that require tankers. Thats why insurance companies charge 40-60% more. The video shows what looks like a very good knockdown. The video does not show how much water was needed to do it? how much was available? and one pond only is very poor (unless its early and others, had not been set up yet) The video shows a tanker at the pond (about 60% full at the downhill end, almost empty at the uphill end) then that tanker is gone. it also shows a tanker (2nd one?) pulling up and backing up (much safer to side unload without backing), but it cant drop its load because while there is only about 1,000 gals in what looks like a 3,000 gal pond, the hill will only allow about 25-35% of the tank to offload. So this tanker must wait until the level drops, which prevents it from going for more water.

OSHA requires "leg protection" based on a risk assesment of the call. So if responding to an MVA, there is the potential of being exposed to sharp metal, broken glass or blood, bare legs are not acceptable. We allow our onduty members to wear uniform shorts, but not on any responses. Fires, MVA's, EMS etc. When washing the rig or house that's fine (dont want them to overheat) but on calls they wear pants (EMS) or bunkers.

I have not done a formal GIS study of the numbers (county wide), but one of these days, I'll consider it. I have looked at 3 different consolidations in the county (10 career depts, 2 combo & a vol, and 8 vol depts.) and all showed a potential reduction of 20-40% in needed apparatus. in most cases a reduction in facilities and in a cpl of cases additional stations & apparatus to underserved areas (the addition was after a larger reduction in over served areas). There are 2 studies into the costs statewide, one shows almost zero cost and the other millions of dollars (to much politics, to debate). Of greater concern, about 4 years ago the NYS Comptroller issued a report stating that most of the LOSAP programs that they audited were drimatically underfunded. I do not recall how many they looked at, but it was a small % and I can no longer find the document on the state website. If this is true, then taxes will have to be raised to cover this. The longer that a community underfunds it, the more they will have to make up. This could amount to millions in each community and when it occurs it will not be paying for fire protection it will be paying for past service.

To many of these politicians do not look at the best value, they look at what is in their political interest. It does not matter if the "best" is the best for that community. One community hired 2 different consultants to advise them on replacing their ladder. Both suggested a 100' rear mount. They FD asked the Board for a 100' tower ladder/quint that would not fit in the fire house. The board proclaim "our volunteers deserve the best" so I'm voting for it. While the economies of scale are greater in high density areas, they also work in low density (particularly since those areas often have less $$ to start with. This is why "out west" & "Down South" they have county or regional depts. that are growing thru regular consolidation. Most people can not tell you what level of service the local FD provides. Many don't even know what dept covers them (particularly in districts). Look at the consolidation in Colleton county So. Carolina, they consolidated a rural county and were able to standardize the response, improve water delivery and reduce insurance premiums by at least 40%. The moved from an ISO PPC rating of 9 to a 4. No FD in Westchester rates better than 9 in areas beyond 1,000 from a hydrant system.

2009 List prices for tower ladders without loose equipment is now $1 to $1.2 Million. Lets hear it for sticker shock. Look at the other thread: "Annual Runs". with many depts. doing 250 to 750 runs how many of those depts need 3-5 engines plus ladders, rescues, etc.? How many of those calls require the 2nd engine? If it was dispatched from another dept. automatically every time its needed that would suffice. If your doing 500 runs per year how many are actual fires? how many are structure fires and how many are workers or greater alarms? And if as has been discused elsewhere the dept has trouble getting out (or getting multiple rigs out) how many of those calls do you actually need those units for? As I mentioned above, how often do some depts have actual working fires? A dozen times a year, 2 dozen? 1) Municipalities got out of workers comp 25 years ago for career firefighters. We are covered under GML 207A. Different system with different rules. 2) I can tell you how hard it is for my dept to get injured members to go to the ER. Ask anyone who's worked EMS in NR, others might, but not here. 1) Quantity. If you have 100 workers/yr vs. 5 which one gets exposed to more potential? 2) Why do you see more volunteers injured/killed responding? Its all in the numbers. I have also seen some depts. & or members that are much less agressive than others, if you don't go interior you are much less likely to get hurt. And before anyone jumps on me for that statement, I'm not naming names or depts. but we all know whats out there and I'm not picking on anyone.

Is it the municipality or the municipal court that gets the money?

LOL Albany has never rectified anything, ever. By just driving onto the Hutch we close it because of the size of our apparatus. WCPD does a great job in getting us cleared off a scene, once we are no longer needed. My concern is once we close these narrow roads for an extended time the traffic will be so bad that PD will not be able to get to the scene. And tieing up our rigs is unaceptable. Yes they are and it has created many issues on I-95 with us. But its also a different type of road with different issues.

NYS Law requires a building permit to install them. So the building dept. must not only be notified, but also inspect the final install. In New Rochelle the building dept has already issued stop work orders and the courts have fined contractors for failing to get a permit.

In the past when this was proposed, it was stated that the NYSP would take over this patrol. With no additional resources to cover approximatly 7 sectors. That would require about 35 officers plus suppervisors. If this happens I think we will end up waiting hours to get a trooper (and thru no fault of the troopers)

The tower, the tower! Rapunzel, Rapunzel! OK...I've got it out of my system. Did some one say Mel Brooks...........next.

they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.

I've got to concentrate... concentrate... concentrate... I've got to concentrate... concentrate... concentrate... Hello?... hello... hello... Echo... echo... echo... Pinch hitting for Pedro Borbon... Manny Mota... Mota... Mota...

My orders came through. My squadron ships out tomorrow. We're bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri at 1800 hours. We're coming in from the north, below their radar. When will you be back? I can't tell you that. It's classified.

Lets look back to when the E911 system was being developed. At the time New Rochelle had 911 for 632,633 & 235 #'s which covered 75-85% of the city. Three major groups proposed different PSAP systems EMS: proposed 2 PSAP's each that could cover the entire county, but operational would be one north the other south and either could cover everything if needed. Fire: 5 PSAPs - Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, White Plains, Yonkers & County (for everyone else) Police: Every PD plus others (county, fire, etc.) The police argument (which we bought) was that if someone at McDonalds on main street in ______ (NR, Y, Peekskill, etc.) called 911, how would a single dispatch point be able to figure out which PD, FD or EMS to send. It was argued by law enforcement that only the community that the call was coming from would know where it was and what to send. Everyone ignored the fact that E-911 tells you that that McDonalds is on main st in NR. And the highest taxed county in the US gets to pay for this forever

Yes hot water systems are out there. They have piping hooked to water storage tanks or circulating pumps to heating systems or swimming pools. They are not connected to the electrical system.

NYS has allocated approximately $12 million each year for the past 3 years and $24 million in 2009 to help municipalities work toward consolidation. The governor has stated that this item is so important it will not be cut. The NYS Department of State (administers the grants). Grants are available under the new Local Government Efficiency Grant program (formerly known as "SMSI"), which was enhanced this year as recommended by the LGEC Commission. The new name emphasizes a priority placed on local efficiencies to be achieved in a variety of ways, including consolidation of fire protection services. As in the past, counties, cities, towns, villages, special improvement districts, and fire districts are eligible (as our schools and other local entities). There is a special category of high priority noncompetitive grants for merger and consolidation studies. Very true, nobody is willing to give it up, but the state is planning to force you to accept it. The biggest misconception with home rule is that the locals control it. Most home rule items require state approval and the state normally allows the locals to do as they please. The state has the legal right to call the shots on all home rule items and the locals have no legal recourse (think of it as the parents of a teenager, they may let the teen make lots of decisions, but they can pull the rug out at any time).

Excellent Post. If the economy and the tax load does not change quickly then I am conviniced you are correct that the taxpayers, or the state or some other governmental entity will mandate consolidation. In fact last year, the governor proposed eliminating all Fire Districts and making those depts part of town depts. (in westchester that would drop the number of departments from 59 to 26), while that didn't pass last year, as the economy gets worst and taxpayers continue to look for relief, It will come back againand again. It is clearly better for the fire service to be the leader and put a fire service plan in place before the politicians or angree taxpayers put one inplace that we can't live with.

STOP CALLING ME SHIRLEY!!!

Looks like I picked a bad day to give up sniffing glue

In general (historically) those west of the Mississippi used letters and those east use numbers. In our area, FDNY and all but one career FD uses Numbers. And have been standard on that for at least 20 years

No but its a lot more work to get it. Procedure for purchasing a vehicle on state contract: 1) Go to NYS Web site, find the basic vehicle (i.e. Ford, F-350, 4x4, 2 or 4 door & long or short bed) determine which dealer is closest 2) Call the dealer. They will fax an accessory / options list to you. Fill it out and return it. They will fedex a final "proposal" 3) Finance dept. takes "proposal" and issues a purchase order, which is sent to the dealer. 4) Dealer delivers vehicle to your location. I purchased both a Ford F-350 & a Chevy passanger van this year and spent only a few hours total to get it done. Procedure for purchasing a vehicle NOT on state contract: Develop a specification, prepare for a public bid. Place a notice in the newspaper at least 10 days prior to the bid date. Also place info on any municipal web site & notify list serves for potential bidders. Hold a formal bid opening, evaluate the bid, award bid. Issue a PO which is sent to the dealer. Technically if you dont get a minimum of 3 bids you need to start over unless you can provide proper documentations as to why you could not. The documentation will be reviewed by the NYS Comptrolers Auditors. & what happens if you get bids you do not want?

They are not on State Contract.

NYS does require sprinklers in new school construction and in renovations over a certain % cost of the building value. All schools follow the NYS uniform Fire Prevention and building code. Excluding NYC there are no local building codes. Local AHJ can request specific local additions to the code thru the NYS Codes council and if granted, they can locally be enforced along with the state code. The school inspection system has evolved from locals can, but it does not count & only a NYS Code Certified Inspector working for the Dept of Education can do them. Now the system is each school district is responsible to hire a Certified CEO (code enforcement officer) to perform the inspection and fill out state school forms and submit them for DOE approval. The person hired can be the local CEO, but not required to be.