Bnechis

It looks very well set up. They claim they can pump over 2,000 gpm. It was reported that the Miami Dade 1500gpm PUC's could not break 1300gpm.

That is correct for E-25. E-21 & E-22 are also 3ff/1O (with the 3rd ff hired with a SAFER grant). E-23 & E24 have 2ff/1O. TL-11 2ff/1O, L12 & L13 have 2FF & either 1O or 1FF, 1DC & Aide. Minimum manning is 29 onduty. sometinmes its more and we add the 4th ff to E23 or E24 or man R4.

lol....No, we've told the members its very very very light red. Ran out of colors. When it came in the guys went a little nuts and asked why? I told them we already have that color on every rig (as a tag or ring, not the whole pipe). I was told "no way"...told them to check E-21. They asked when did we do that? I told them 8 years ago. They never noticed before E-25. My daughter told them that that was the outlet for when we get girl firefighters.

They are called P.O.D.'s - Platform On Demand Montgomery Ct. MD has had one as a collapse unit for about 2 years. Fairfax VA a communications unit for 15 or so and in 1993 I saw over 40 different variations in Germany, everything you could think of. It never gain much headway in the US, maybe this smaller unit will.

LOL...not to many people here would have ever seen that, but a rabbit tool......

It has been a week since the last post, I guess once it was broght out that the majority of depts in Westchester do not have the ability to handle something (E-85 fuel fire or spill) we have solved any or all of the issues surrounding foam. This is not just an issue for the depts with highways. This stuff is traveling over local streets also. The amount of foam on 1 trailer (even if it can get to an incident fast enough) will not be enough.

Opps. Agreed

Interesting video. What can be learned from this: 1) Know where you are going. Why was the turn so hard, maybe the driver did not realize he needed to make the turn until it was too late. 2) Speeding, Speeding, Speeding............... 3) I suspect all members had there seatbelts on. Otherwise there would be more to this story. Many FF's are getting the message, but way too many have not. 4) I find it interesting that the Austin Thread has everyone complaining about rules to slow down, and this thread is more concerned with what the POV was doing. One comment on the Austin Thread was what if it was your family trapped down the block in a fire those few seconds could make the difference. Well in this case those few extra seconds will turn into 10-30 minutes. THe truck will never get there, the rescue is going to the aid of the truck, I'm sure they dispatched other units to assist the truck and a couple of ambulances. Anyone at the original call is going to wait a lot longer for help (particularly if in Westchester, since you just lost the whole 1st alarm response. How do you explain this to the family you were trying to help, to the families of the FF's if this had gone worst or the families of any one who could have been struck by this truck

Its still available, Naval Company Inc is the manufacturer of the US Coast Guard approved Model CG85 Bridger Line Throwing Gun Kit ours was given to us via the Federal Civil Defence Administration. For those who have ever shoot skeet, Its still very useful. Remember the concept of "Pull" then shoot the defenceless little skeet. When responding to the "Cat in the tree" call, you reverse the process: you shoot the defenceless little kitty then yell "Pull" and someone pulls the line......................bingo no more kitty in the tree.

Except instead of running 4 groups they had 1 and they worked 6 24's in a row.

GREAT PHOTO Looks like they had a problem with standards then too.....2 Steering wheels on the left, 1 on the right and one in the center (tiller) all in one photo.

Hudson to be politically correct the term is creativly aquired not stolen and recycled not scrapped...

A few more pics:

Good question, but I think 1 is clearly not enough. Below I added a simple write up I did after a 2 day course on ethanol fuel fires. Which shows you may need up to 230 gallons of foam for a car fire with a 15 gallon tank of E85. ISO requires engines carry 10-25 gallons and foam cells on most engines are 25-40 gallons. Based on that you might need 6 to 23 engine companies to extingush this fire (unless you let it burn out) or have a great foam SYSTEM. Very few have more than a few minutes worth of capabilities, particularly if ethanol is involved. One problem is we are not considering class B fires from a SYSTEM approach, everyone gets a few components, but its not a system. FDNY a number of years ago set up a neat SYSTEM. Each engine carried a few 5 gal buckets (FDNY guys please give the proper #). The satilite units carried extra foam, they also had a 2,500-3000 gallon foam tanker and a 500 galon foam tank in a dozen or so fire stations around the city (they used 480 gallon home heating fuel tanks) they where gravity or nitrogen pressurized to empty them into any standard engines 500 gallon tank. An engine could be dispatched to a foam tank as a shuttle, told to dump there water tank and fill with foam. I was told it took about 10 minutes. FDNY a few years ago was able to add about a dozen dedicated foam pumpers and scrapped the shuttles. Any FDNY who can add, update or correct this, please do. Now NYC has more hazards and is larger, but I think it shows, that we have way less than we should. Ossinings & Hawthorne's were for overturned tankers on fire. NRFD had this trailer respond from fairview for an overturned and leaking gasoline tanker on main street. If it had caught fire their arrival time would have been too late. BTW our spill travelled to long island sound (we had to deploy a boat and booms) and ended up going into 30+ homes via the sanitary sewers, also Price club Costco had to be evacuated. THere have been a number of cases around the US, where this has happened and found an ignition source, then they had dozzens of structure fires. The bigger problem is response time. trailers are slow, hard to safely respond (particularly by inexperienced drivers) and 500 gallons is just getting started. We have such overkill in most things, but not foam or foam SYSTEMS and the people trained to deal with it. ETHANOL Ethanol is mixed with gasoline. E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, while E10 is 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline. E10 is commonly found in cars. Ethanol is now the #1 rail transported product, with 350,000 annual railcars, usually rail cars carry pure ethanol. MC306 Tanker trucks generally care either E85 or E10 with approximately 8,400 tanker trips annually. Which is about 10% of the total tanker trips. Ethanol is a polar solvent which means it mixes with water. Gasoline is a non-polar solvent, when gasoline and ethanol are mixed they create a unique series of problems for the fire service. If it is burning the only effective extinguishing agent is Alcohol Resistant AFFF (AR-AFFF) which is the only foam that works. Never MIX Different brands of AR AFFF, they will eat one another. Additionally, foam if not gently applied will sink in ethanol and it will not come back to the surface, so it must be banked off a wall or dropped onto the street in front of it and eased into it. The other concern is how much foam is needed, which is dramatically more than with other flammables. The 1% / 3% (Hydrocarbons / Polar Solvents) AR-AFFF that we have is considered the most appropriate for Ethanol and should be set at 3%. 15 gallons from a car tank that has spilled on the ground and ignited will require approximately 10-16 gpm of foam concentrate for a minimum of 15 minutes, which is 150 to 230 gallons of concentrate or 30 to 46 foam buckets. If an M306 gasoline tanker were to spill its entire load the requirements would be approximately 80,000 – 128,000 gallons of concentrate or 16,000 to 25,600 foam buckets. I do not believe that much concentrate exists in the entire region. Airport Crash Trucks are not an option, they do not carry Alcohol Resistant Foam. The Federal Response Teams (EPA & USCG) have yet to formulate a plan. If the fire occurs in a loading dock the flow rate needs to be doubled. If the spill is contained in a diked area, the application time doubles, but the amount of foam needed maybe less based on total square footage. Best bet is protect exposures with master streams and try to prevent it from getting into storm drains.

I believe its not cost but priorities. How many high end tow vehicles does the county have? How many drivers do they have and can they or the trailers we have all be deployed in a timely fasion?

The opinions listed here in no way represent the New Rochelle Fire Dept. Thanks Chief F. for recognizing when the county does something that is good for everyone

I would think it would be a little premature to count on the FEMA Assistance to Firefighters Fire Station Construction Grants since they have not started to award them and the maximum they will give is $5 million.

Please explain F.E.M.A fund? Are you refering to the FEMA Assistance to Firefighters Fire Station Construction Grants?

We had sop's, we even found that sometimes they would just turn on. We also had issues when we had more than 1 incident, which is not unheard of here. Additional issues were with ambulances needing them

Sounds like a training problem and a policy problem about how many and who needs to chat about what on the radio. FDNY has at least 3x the number of vehicles operating on a given channel, and it works there. Why did you need to sign on? What were you responding to and on what rig?

We had them for 20 years and they work fine as long as only 1 vehicle was within a 1/2 mile of the scene, if you had multiple vehicles or scenes, they would lock up and you had nothing. We ditched them 3+ years ago.

Poor coverage is a critical issue, but a trucked system can be just as poor if it does not have enough sites. A trunk system does not ensure better interoperability just much greater costs. If not all agencies have or use the trunked radio then its no better. Many of the career fire depts in Westchester have there own radio systems and do not use the trunked radios. when we are operating at an incident we are all on our channel except for MA units who are told be 60 control to go to trunked, where they cant talk to us and we them. Many switch to our channel (nontrunked) for interoperability. We originally developed our system after Westchester advised us that the trunk system would not work in the southern 2/3 of our city (or PFD,PMFD,LFD,TMFD, MVFD) Our PD has had a crap system for years and has to walk back all the time. They have more repeaters/recivers than the FD. We have great coverage (so much so that we never deployed 3 recievers that we purchased. Both are nontrunked our portables work everywhere (except inside 1 highrise and we have special procedures/equipment to deal with that building) and they are hit or miss. 2 different issues....coverage and interoberability, and both can be done without costing $3,000 per portable radio

Can you explain why? What advantage (also vs. what cost)

Not exactly. ISO requires the 12+1 (career) or 36+1 (volunteer) response. Combo depts. use the 36+1 and count each career ff as 3. NFPA 1710 requires career and combo depts that are primary career to respond with a minimum of 16 members (the 3 additional over ISO are for FAST & Accountability) for 2,000 sq. ft. or smaller structures without basements. NFPA 1720 requires volunteer and combo depts that are primary volunteer respond with enough members to "safely enter" and they must perform an assessment of personnel and tasks that must be done to perform at a fire. i.e Incident Commander* 1 off Chiefs Aid 1 ff Pump Operator 1 ff Attack & Backup Lines 4 ff Line Support/Hydrant etc. 2 ff SAR Team 2 ff Vent Team 2 ff Aerial Operator 1 ff IRIC Team 2 ff Total 16ff In reality most consider 4 for a vent team (2 roof) (2 outside) 4-6 for search (fire floor & floor above) 2-4 FF's added to the IRIC to make it a FAST 1 Safety Officer Also VFD's most consider how many of these positions must be handled by Interior qualified personnel. by my count only 4 of the 16 could be external only (includes the chiefs & aid, pump operator and aerial operator)

Agreed, I should have said the no longer response ment that you really are no longer combo