Bnechis

You gave the correct deffinition, but you lose points on the example, which is clearly rural and not suburban. Yes the standards for a rural area will never match suburban or urban, but my point was that their is no excuse for suburban services to be worst than urban.

It is kind of like what makes a rescue a "HEAVY RESCUE". I believe its the capability of the unit to handle many different and difficult rescues. But many of the rigs that have it painted on the sides can only handle a 2 car accident. In that case the dept. uses "heavy" to determine the size of the (empty) box or the weight of the chassis. "Special" operations is the short bus

Only if the town helps support local EMS. To many officials do not believe that EMS needs to be supported. While it it was based on Cardiac arrest, it also works, for respiratory, chocking, serious bleeding, overdose, etc. Can you tell me the difference between EMS in an Urban setting vs. suburban? I have worked both (as both vol & career) and found meeting the response time standard is much harder in the urban. Particularly since they stop the clock at the curb and do not consider verticle response time. I also find it amazing that taxpayers in wealthy villages should be held to a lower standard than those nontaxpayers who live off the public or live below grade. Staffing would not be cost prohibitive if towns did not attempt to suport multiple agencies with multiple buildings and multiple vehicles and multiple budgets. Additionally, volunteer coverage would be easier with fewer ambulances to staff, but the same size pool of potential volunteers. I have worked as a flycar medic in both week and strong systems and while they "usually" get out, it is not almays rapid and I had to listen many times to "any available emt or driver". In a number of towns taxpayers in Westchester were asked to pay, by creating an ambulance district, most (if not all) agreed. The question they were asked is not 4 minutes, it was do you want an ambulance, otherwise you may have to find your own way to the ER (as has been sugested here).

I would love to see that in a spread sheet. I think a number of agencies would drop county dispatch before allowing that info to go public

Most agencies have the data. Some actually track that data and turn it into useful information. The big question is how many actually make available (particularly without being asked) the info? I would love to see DOH require an annual public report (that might open some eyes). Average response time is not a good measure. If the agency responds to 10 calls in 4 minutes and one call in 25 minutes, their average is 5.4 minutes, which is very acceptable, except to the person who waited 25 minutes. As the call volume goes up a few really bad call times get lost. Fractile reporting is the standard for EMS and it basically gives a percentage of calls that EMS arrived in 4min, 5min, 20 min, etc. American Heart Association, American Ambulance Association and NFPA have had standards in place for 25 years or more. The case in point has a population of 7,146 in 1.82 square miles (thats 3,929 people per square mile) is suburban. The standard is 4 minutes for BLS (1st response/AED with or without transport) and 8 minutes for ALS (including transport) 90% of the time. Many agencies have given up or worst they do not tell the community it needs help and just continues to provided substandard service and hopes it will get better. It clearly can not spend tax money that it never asks for. So in a town that has 5 seperate volunteer ambulance services and a paid ALS service they can not find a solution? Maybe trying to staff 5 ambulances to cover less than 50,000 people is not the best way to make this work. At least 1 agency in town has stepped up to the plate and brought in some paid EMT's. Now if they can cover 5,000 people with paid, maybe it would be more cost effective to cover 50,000 with a few more. Most towns have no idea what kind of job the local EMS agency is doing. Since many towns in Westchester do not pay for service, its kind of hard for them to complain or go out and contract for another service. 99% of the general public have no idea what service is or is not provided. All they know is that when they dial 911 in 4 minutes 2 paramedics will be there to save them (its that way on TV). If agencies were truly proud of the service they provide, you would not have to ask for it. They would have it posted on the web and the annual report would be available at town hall and the library. Most dispatch centers only give that info to the agency, not the public.

I was teaching that to some probies when one of them said: "Im from the city, no rabbits, no trees but lots of pot holes" So I said; "the drunk firefighter came out of the bar, staggered to the curb where he grabbed on to a street sign. He saw his wife driving up the road. He started to run, but forgot to let go of the sign, until he had spun around it and saw the bar. He let go of the sign and ran back into the bar......." He no longer had a problem with the bowline.

In another post this link was mentioned: http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/15/property-taxes-high-lifestyle-real-estate-counties-assessment-taxes-chart.html?partner=msnre Its "Where Americans Pay Most In Property Tax" They list 20 counties in 4 different sections of the country: North East, South , Midwest and West. Lets see what can be determined from this little snap shot: Westchester has more Fire Depts, more water & sewer districts, more school dists, more city town, village and county government more PD,EMS agencies....more, more, more Does this make us better? or just the most taxed county in the United States! The 5 West coast counties have 1 FD (SF county/City also) the Median Home Value is almost 50% more, but their tax is almost Half what we pay. In the South the 3 VA county (with county FD's) Pay half for the same value homes. The 2 Tx counties pay half for a 60-70% less value, but they also have 25-35 FD's and multiple other gov's. The midwest pays the most after the northeast and they all have 25-35 depts. The northeast all 5 counties set records for the most government and we pay for it.

Good one.If you have a light touch, the next drill involves the egg and a cutting tourch. I like mine scrambled, but in this case you win if you can hard boil them. Great topic

School taxes are included in the property tax (50-80% of it). Agreed. Schools are very poorly managed and need major change.

The cities also get sales tax and other funds that villages dont get, also being larger they have more areas to cut from, and a larger tax base. I had looked at the budget in Pelham a few years ago (when working on a grant for them). That year they purchased a new ladder. I calculated that the entire tax rate increase that year was equal to what they spent (they bonded the vehicle), but if they had purchased it they would not have met any other increases (salary, insurance, pension etc.) for all employees, not just FD. THe numbers would mean villages would have to choise between PD, FD and other services, because they will not be able to afford all of them. New Rochelle (the city, not schools) gets less funding from the state than the next 15 smaller cities. If NR got the same state funding (per capita) that the it should based on being the 7th largest city, we would recieve another $10-12 M. I do not know how it will affect MV.

The county has nothing to do with it. it is completely in the hands of the locals (and some state issues). New Rochelle's Mayor is now pushing to work on phase 2, 2 or 3 of the other departments are interested. The rest are more on hold. I think the major telling issue will be Albany and the new state budget. If the Gov. gets what he is proposing and everyone in Albany is scared of next Nov. election so they may vote his plans in so they can tell voters in Nov. that they are cutting the taxes. If that happens, the districts and the 3 smaller villages will be forced to do it or go bankrupt. I think we will know by May what is going to happen.

Thanks. Thats why you do it, then they cant break away.

Agreed, but my point was NYS is going bankrupt and every dollar is at issue. Schools are the number one problem, and the state has already told smaller districts they are going to be merged in the next 2 years. Thats because public safety makes up 60% or more of local spending. The bank robber was asked; why do you rob banks? cause thats where the money is. MV did this for political reasons not money

Scarsdale & Mt Kisco, I do not think Harrison is. The reason for it, is once you have no unincorporated land (or all land is within a village) the town can not be split into one or more seperate villages.

The tax number used is the total amount of property tax paid, it includes County, City, Town, Village, school and any special districts (fire, water, sewer, etc.) And the issue in Westchester is both the quality of service (or lack of service) along with the fact that we pay almost double for it. Do you really believe that they understand what level of service is being provided? As long as the public believes they are being protected, and because they see a whole bunch of big red trucks down at the fire station and they are 100% sure they are covered. The politicians will fund what they think is needed to keep themselves in office.

Prior to talking it to death on EMTBravo, any ongoing issues with response time was just the dirty little secret in the closet. If nobody knows about it and nobody brings it forward than nobody will ever fix it. More than 10x the number of people who post here have already read this thread. If the right person does, it may change everything. Ways have been offered, Lots of people want to pretend all is well.

Fascinating I compared the 3 other regions to Westchester (I did not look at our other local counties that are also government rich) and found the following: Population avg.: 620,000 (range 54,699 - 1,764,499) Westchester is 953,943 Area avg.: 561 sq miles (range 26 - 1,389) Westchester is 433 Density avg: 2005 per sq. mile (range 39-17,115) Westchester is 2,194 We were very close to the average in all catagories What I found is this: Counties that have more population pay less Counties that have less population pay less Counties that have more land pay less Counties that have less land pay less Counties that have more population density pay less Counties that have less population density pay less Can anyone tell what is going on here? What are they doing that we are not? All of the Counties that pay less have at least 1/2 of the amount of government than we pay for.

ISO does not look at response times at all. They look at road miles traveled and they calculate a maximum response speed per mile or part there of. They assume that if the fire station is beyond 5 road miles, then the time delay is not acceptable. They also consider how long it takes to turn out, but not in minutes. They require 3x more on call (volunteers) firefighters respond to get the same credit as on duty in the station. VFD's can under ISO get the same manpower credit if they have onduty in the station crews.

The 8 hour requirement for OSHA training is a NYS PESH Directive for "fire Brigades" the hazmat refresher standard does not give time, as much time as needed to prove competency. Refresher training. 1910.120(q)(8)(i) Those employees who are trained in accordance with paragraph (q)(6) of this section shall receive annual refresher training of sufficient content and duration to maintain their competencies, or shall demonstrate competency in those areas at least yearly.

Both NYS PESH and Federal OSHA require employers (and VFD's are considered employers) to provide all protective equipment. They are under no obligation to allow gear you purcased to be used, even if it is better. This has been well established in Labor Law since the passage of the william stieger act (the original OSHA ACT).

Ok for those who live in Croton..BACK UP. lol

Chief, most depts require 2 because tankers almost always have to buck up, sometimes a long distance on difficult roads. Banksville FD is just short of 5 miles. THey have very difficult "back roads" to travel (very dangerous with a tanker). And the closest route goes into Conn. before going back into NY. Pound Ridge FD is almost 8 miles Bedford FD is closest at 3.8 miles Based on the travel distance, if the house was approximatly another 1,000 feet from Banksville FD, ISO would rate it a 10. Because anything beyond 5 road miles is considered beyond the reach of FD (in time).

Before you do it, read what has been written about it here. Almost everyone who has posted something about it said it was a big mistake. No body has yet to prove it actually does what advicates claim it does.

And at home they are protected by big fire stations with lots of apparatus and more highly trained manpower......oh never mind....dont want to spoil the atmosphere. Most commuters think they have the same coverage at home that they see in NYC

According to "M": Missles behind the headlights, a rotating licence plate, the ability to drop oil, stars or smoke and an ejection seat for the officer. or The light tower has 6 750 watt lights (left & right side can be adjusted independent of each other, so they can actually shine in opposite each other). The tower also has an automatic electric field monitor (the grey box on top of it) and a radar to prevent the tower from hitting anything or getting within 8 feet of powerlines. The top....Crane, boat, light tower, storage and the "Hippo" power unit (white box in right rear corner of body). THe Hipo unit powers 2 low volume (40cfm) air hoses, 2 hi volume(185cfm) air hoses (to run jack hammers, an air knife and dirt vacume and 2 10gpm hydraulic lines that run our stanley hydraulic tools (concrete chain saw, jack hammer, and pumps). The pumps move 1,600 gpm and unlike drafting have a lift of up to 35 feet at 100 feet from the rig.