Bnechis

If I call a mayday, I hope that this is not what is done!!!!! If I know its radio 22c and he advises he's low on air and lost. I would hope that the firefighters in the building would not abandon him. We still need fire attack, infact, we need more members inthere, not less. we know who is missing. and if he is low on air, he will be out of air by the time we collect all of the tags!!!! I do not want just the FASt looking for him. Also not every fire is in a single family residential, exiting the building may take time, time that the member in distress does not have. We do not exit and leave our brother behind to do a PAR, we leave because the conditions have deteriorated to the point that Command decides we must. An exit par is only done (in my dept.) if conditions radically change (explosion, collapse, etc.) and we do not know if anyone is missing. Normally a PAR is done by calling each company officer and having him acknoledge that he and his company members are ok and where they are. If we know where everyone is and that they are ok, then we are set. The ring of tags will help the Medical Examiner narrow down who's dental records are needed.

Well said. To many ff's believe that it ends with the tags. Agreed. My comments were ment to bring that out. To many depts do not have the discipline or follow the ICS enough to make this work. Bring on the "antiquefirelt behavior Pass System".......what a great idea.

All I see is a lot of effort and a lot of policies to have tags of lots of colors, but I still do not hear accountability. Here is a scenario: Reported house fire, upon arrival you have a 2 story private dwelling with light to medium smoke showing. you arrive with 1 engine, 1 ladder and 1 chief. each rig has 1 officer and 2 firefighters plus the chief. The members could be career &/or volunteer but they assembled at the station and arrived together in approximatly 6 minutes. It is 6:30 in the morning and there is a minivan in the driveway. No one is outside upon arrival, the neighbor says she does not know if anyone is home, but they often leave for work at this time. All 6 firefighters/officers are certified interior. Now from some of the threads I've already taxed some departments. Engine #1 - 1 firefighter and 1 lt stretch a 1 3/4" handline and the driver operates the pump. Ladder #1 - 1 FF and the Capt. Force entry and start to search. The other firefighter as part of the two out helps the pump operator make a hydrant. The chief is IC. Who is collecting these tags at the door? Who is the 2nd "out" member? Now its 10 minutes later, an additonal 6 members are on scene (again a stretch for many) who is collecting tags? In a few minutes it will be time to rotate members due to low air. A PASS alarm goes off and is not reset, what does your tag ("accountability") system do for you? Who's alarm? Where are they? Who has what radio (if equipped) ? You do a PAR and 2 members do not answer (but only 4 of the 7 members inside have radios). So how does your tag ("accountability") system help? Visability starts to deteriorate and one of the truck members shows up in a 2nd floor window, a ground ladder is placed and he gets out. He does not know where anyone else is. How does your tag ("accountability") system help?

This is one of a number of very similar systems that only covers a portion of "accountability". It only tells you who is onscene. Tracking where members are is needed for accountability along with time in the IDLH environment. Also what happens when a member shows up at the scene, not on a rig? Does this mean that the 1st arriving unit can not go in, till this member is there? If they can how do you account for them after the fact? Does this safety officer track where in the structure and how long they have been in? What about tracking exterior operations? My problem with the tag systems is they help ID the body or make you look for the body before leaving the scene. THey do not work in real time.

Good answer, this vehicle sounds like a good fit for the type of structures in the district, 1) now how many ff's are required to operate this unit based on manufacturers insructions, NYS Law and Generally accepted practices (which can be used in court)? 2) How many ff's are assigned to respond on this unit and if less than #1 above, how do they make up the difference in a timely enough manor to do all the things you outlined above?

If there are so many issues with this unit is worth it to rebuild / rechassis? In investigating the costs I found you save approximatly the resale value so bying new and taking the trade in is almost the same, but you end up 100% new and the old one stays in town until the new unit arrives. Otherwise your only ladder is out of town for months. Can you explain why you think it is perfect for Hartsdale?

It was in the code, but a previous gov. took it out.

Enforcement is determined by the municipality and who they gave the authority to in enforcing the NYS UF&BC. In most cases it is the building dept. So the FD (particularly on the career side) others the Fire Marshal. If its a municipal law (like in NR) PD FD & BD all can do it. As GIS on the rigs has improved, it has actually become less of an issue, since we can "see" the house number on the rig, telling us which home is which. It is still very important, but a little less so.

Rescue 4's boat. Prior to that we called it cutting board #1 (inside joke). What do you call any other tool on your rescue? does your "Jaws of Life" have an ID Name for dispatch to call it or do they just send the rescue and the members use what ever tools they need? When it was on a trailer it was dispatched as "the boat"

While it is only a rumor, there is a claim that the chief was given $200,000 to increase staffing and he did not use it. If this is true, how does that change things? Then he truly would have problems pointing fingers.

M2 is in water M36 is on a trailer, I don't believe a 12-14' zodic should be called a "marine unit"

Both NYC and Yonkers have a nonresiedent payroll tax, if you work in either city you get to pay. The MTA commuter tax is on the employeer not the employee in the Hudson valley (and ?) for the honor of being close to NYC and as a reward to the MTA for not being able to stay within its multi billion dollar budget. Bloomberg proposed an additional commuter tax, but it was not approved by the state

We would love to have them all at 4, but budget does not allow for it at this time. Ladder 12 & 13 are assigned an officer, but when on contractual time off are often replaced with a firefighter. We tried to include everybody. Thanks for the feedback

Yep, that kink has been fixed, thanks

Badges, we don't need no stinking Badges

We each get a point. The Vol FF Benefit Law, is a subchapter in the Workman's Comp law. It is basicly what makes a volunteer a "worker or employee" for insurance purposes. § 2. Purpose. One of the finest traditions of American community life is the service which people render to others without remuneration. Volunteer firemen have long been in the forefront of this group. In recognition of the unselfish service by these volunteers, government has undertaken to provide for them and their families some measure of protection against loss from death or injuries in line of duty. Over the years there has developed a dual system of benefits when volunteer firemen are killed or injured. The dual system has caused uncertainty and confusion. This law establishes a new single system of benefits for volunteer firemen and provides for the administration of such system by the workmen's compensation board and the chairman of such board. It is hereby declared that this chapter is intended to effectuate the objects and purposes of section eighteen of article one of the state constitution and that the relationship between the political subdivision liable for benefits under this chapter and a volunteer fireman entitled to such benefits is that of employer and employee within the meaning of such provision of the state constitution. Always interesting to go read (or reread) the law. I was looking to see if there was anything about age, I did not find any age issue (in VFD's) but what I did find (for another thread) is volunteers are not covered during any compititions that envolve any physical activity (like parades) and any activity when the member has been drincking alcohol.

NYS DOL PESH & the NYS courts have stated (many times) that volunteer FF's in NYS are employees, since the depts are requird to provide workers comp. That is how they can enforce the OSHA standards on them. If I can find it (I have it written somewhere) I will post it.

So if it is not contractual, how does the police chief/commissioner convince the city manager, mayor, and/or council what is needed? There has to be some way of justifying minimum service levels otherwise it would be very easy for cuts to occur.

It has worked well for us as it solved a lot of problems. The problem with it being on MVFD's fire radio is that you are still using dispatch as fire ground and none of your mutaul aid fire depts. can talk on your radio. Combining fireground and dispatch on the same channel was one of the issues sited in the Hackensack fire.

Well said. You are correct every firefighter and every rig should be able to be FAST, it is clear that due to lack of training, experience, or personnel (including interior certified) many departments and their members can not do this critical and basic function of rescuing another firefighter.

While this may creat a vehicle removal problem, if people freeze in their cars how do you remover thier vechile to open up in the morning??? While this may have been the right move, what happens to 684? 87? TSP? NY17 etc.? what do you do with those roads and that will back up other major roads. At what point do you stop?

Bill, this is in the wrong thread. 30 minutes or less is the response time thread. lol

This is not just an issue for the winter. Summer vegitation (can you find this one?) Or a homeowner that wants to hide it by painting it (it was yellow). We try to get property owners to "adopt" them as it is not realistic that we can clear more than 1,400 (plus privatly owned ones) in a timely manor. This is a great question, I say it is the owner of the hydrant, since the FD has to pay united water $970,000 a year for the privaledge of using them. The discount is based on it being within 1,000 feet (if the FD has LDH) or 500' if not and that it meets a predetermined fire flow for the area. They consider that it mus be "maintained" at all times. The snow will still slow you down and drain manpower.

Each City, Town or village can declare a State of Emergency (many did)

You have way to much time on your hands....oh thats right, thats what you do now.