Bnechis

So if there is only one officer and 9 firefighters, how do you deal with span of control or is that just ignored?

The spec would have to specify the drive train, the building materials, the warranties & the equipment, unless one manufacturer took exceptions to the specs and the purchaser agreed Generally the only major difference is the method of construction.

I disagree, to many FD's dont really have a "ligitimate" reason and there needs to be some oversight. This issue is happening because FD's are bringing it on themselves. In the past few years I have seen specs that required the apparatus to be "built with 5 miles of Appletone WI" or another that required the "mudflaps to have the manufactures name in script with its 3 color logo on it" The NYS comptroler calls this Bid Rigging and it is a crime. If you can prove it is better and needed is one thing, but the proof needs to be able to hold up in court. I have also seen depts that want the taxpayers to pay for things like a 3,000 gpm pump so that we will have the biggest pump in the county and we will get called to all the big mutual aid jobs...hello, you want your taxpayers to spend $$ on a rig to protect everyone else? My understanding is they wanted a Seagrave and when the village board tossed out the last bid for this rig (last fall) it was because they only got 1 bidder (seagrave) could it be that they wrote something in the spec to keep everyone else out of the bidding? hmmmmmmmmm

Well I have spec'ed rigs and even I can't spend that much on an engine.

The mayor hired 2 additional staffers about 3 weeks ago.

How does one determine "best apparatus" or "best overall" ?

If you did that then we never would have learned about the "rules" for judging, I learned something new this year. If we go back and read the previous years it gets into the lack of community coverage, which was barly written on this time. That was the dead horse, since clearly nobody cares if a FD can provide fire protection. If you think reading this thread is so bad, why are you (and 180+ other viewers) wasting your time reading it?

Not according the the parade judges association

This should be good. I have to ask why? Is it because we have no chrome, no gold leaf or anything that was done for show? Is it because R-4 is designed to give our members the ability to handle almost anything but a parade? or is it you just want to get under my skin?

Does it? We pay more fore it. We have poorer ratings than other areas...so we pay more for insurance We need multiple depts to respond to a room & content fire And as we get to see photes on EmtBravo, we still get the same roof burned off. Does the job get done because of us or inspite of us.

"Mangled by the pro's"? The pros have parades also and we enjoy them as well. But how can you enjoy them if you get demerits for talking, waving or laughing? Yes parades are for everyone, we all enjoy both watching and participating, but if you follow all these rules, your priority is not protecting the community that you swore to protect. Your priority is to win a trophy. I'm so sorry that I asked what makes the "best" and then read the rules.

Maybe if they gave trophies: Best Rescue Fastest Knockdown Most fondation Saved, etc.

Nope, just trying to figure if its the biggest, longest, most expensive most lights or one that actually was designed to fight a fire. After reading the rules, thats not one of the requirements. The rules are very interesting. NFPA and OSHA standards are easier and simpler. A lot of work went into these. Lets look at a few: "Judging will not be performed within fifty (50) feet of any corner, at any sharp bend, at any steep grade, or at any encumbrance in the Line of March, except by those judging Apparatus. No judging will occur while a unit is stopped, stopping or starting." So lets throw out safety and most dept. SOP's. Amazing that no judges have been run over. "Talking, Waving, Laughing, Chewing Gum, Sobriety, Smoking. Ten (10) demerits each." Yep, you never see these things at a parade. "10- Haircuts and beards shall be neat and well kept. If the hair is not neat trimmed or is disheveled it is subject to five (5) demerits. There is no rule on hair length. The rule refers to appearance." Beards are ok in the fire service? "1 - All apparatus and vehicles must drive to rear of last group. Maximum spacing is twenty (20) feet from last group and twenty (20) feet between each apparatus and vehicle. Two (2) demerits each." 20 feet, sounds like tailgating to me, what does traffic law say on this one? "16- Missing equipment will be subject to three (3) demerits each." How do they know whats missing? "17- Refreshments or non-firematic equipment are not permitted on apparatus or vehicles. Five (5)demerits." So who carries the beer? THis also explains the MCI's that have occured at a few parades when everyone drops from the heat. "18- Current dated inspection tags must be on extinguisher. Two (2) demerits each." I guess these depts don't actually use extingushers to fight fires with "21- Additional demerits for Pumpers: Covered hose beds Ten (10) demerits (Full covers need not be completely removed, but must allow hose bed viewing for inspection.)" In violation of NFPA Standards. And the one the explains why depts in Westchester can never consolidate: "Two or more Departments marching together as One Unit are disqualified."

I believe that most homeowners have no clue as to what level of fire protection that the recieve. That being said (particularly in the north east) they drive past multiple bay fire stations with many brand new custom fire trucks, and 1 or 2 mile in every direction another station what should they expect? Has the chief's told the community what they are capabile of and if they have any problems in delevering service? See the pictures of this house without a roof In Stamford it looks like those that pay the least get the most. Its clearly not a uniform level of service. Yes its subjective, but what is equitable is not the same as what is politcally acceptable. So far it appears that the politicians are more concerned with keeping the volunteers happy than worrying about what is an equitable level of service.

Yes, HM OPS, BBP & RTK are mandated annual refresher training, but that also means they must be certified in the 1st year and then annual refreshers. This is for all FF's not just volunteers. There are additional requirements for career ff's.

To start with, All ff's are required to have hazmat ops before they are allowed to respond on any calls. OFPC always ran it as a 15 hour course. But when they reorganized it under FF1, they dropped it to 6-9 hours (but they never told the instructors what material to cut out) and they still run it as 15 hours stand alone. This was considered ok because the law requires the depts and not NYS to provide the training and it must be customized to each dept. which OFPC can not do. Also every FF must have an annual refresher.

To start with, the OFPC training data base. Its amazing how many "firefighters" do not meet the minimum training standards required by NYS & Federal law.

Any NYS firefighters that have not been trained in the truss sign system are putting themselves and others in extreme danger. Knowledge of building construction is a critical and basic component of firefighter training. Too many firefighters lack this knowledge and what is worst, they do not understand how important understanding building construction is to firefighting.

I agree, and based on the law, new buildings have to put the state mandated sign on it. Is it a light weight wood truss or a heavy one (difference in the working time)? Is is wood or metal bar joist? Is this an Ordinary, wood frame or non combustible building? Does this building have the potential for an under metal deck fire? I suspect the have the Haverstraw sign was based on the local FD's concern for overhead trusses. You are assuming it covers all (I do not know if it covers floors). If you have a basement fire in a 2 or 3 story building with a roof truss, its not a big deal, but if the sloors are truss, 1 step into the building may be your last.

Many career fire positions also require U.S. citizenship. I do not know if that is an issue for you, but something you may need to check 1st.

I would think it could be worst, since the chief in that case did not meet NFPA and state policy. This would be in direct violation of state law.

You are wrong. The law says every interior firefighter must have a second means of egress based on the type of structures in his/her response area. If all buildings are low, very tall (higher than bailout capability) or can be laddered or a roof rope team is always inplace, it is not required. One of the biggest problems is that to many members have not read and understood the law, they just assume you need to spend money on equipment.

See post #4

The units I saw in 1981 or 1982 were engines. The tractors were Ford commercial cabs with 3 man seating on a bench seat. The tank was above the 5th wheel, the pump was rear mounted right above the back step and the pump was a direct drive diesel. The hose bed was directly above the pump panel. Part of the concept was that the pump is rarely used and the tractor can be seperatly replaced. Also with a fleet of them a spare tractor can be kept at the shop and swapped with one needing repair. It was also more manuverable than a standard engine of the day. I'm sure it was harder to train drivers. I do not know what the reasons they dropped the program.

The rigs I was refering to were white and were triple combination units, with Ford tractors