Bnechis

Thats not mutual aid, thats an open agreement for coverage in consideration of billing. Nothing wrong with it, just call it what it is.

An experienced chief often stated: "never let the truth get in the way of a good story".

Talk about 911 abuse. They have a population of 14,928 almost every person in the district must be calling.

Most of the things that he says (on his website) that 60 Control does not provide, they have been providing to us for years.

October 1st the NFD Chief and 31 Chief officers retired. They left not to save jobs but to insure they got the pensions that they earned. Since almost 50% of the pension fund has been raided by the current and 3 previous govenors. The posability of it going into default is a real issue. Interesting that very little has been mentioned about the Federal SEC sending out supenas <sp> to the pension officals....something about securities fraud.

I do not know if its law, but this is very common practice at all levels. Our City council does it, the county board does our state legislature does it and congress does it. Public hearings and "citizens to be heard" are just that, opertunity for the public to give input to the elected officials .

If there is a potential to come in contact with CO as part of your response yes. And since CO poisoning is the #1 type of poisoning its very likely that you can come in contact with it.

Under OSHA's the general duty clause it is: SEC. 5. Duties (a) Each employer -- (1) shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees; (2) shall comply with occupational safety and health standards promulgated under this Act. ( 3) Each employee shall comply with occupational safety and health standards and all rules, regulations, and orders issued pursuant to this Act which are applicable to his own actions and conduct.

Yes for the last 6 years or so. They have saved a number of lives (members and the public).

Most medics refer to it as System Sacrificing Medics.....based on that, I suspect most places dont run it right.

But not in the district they are rating and no longer property of the district. Good point. but as long as it was sitting there, ISO counted it inservice,

Only if the farm animal is allowed to ride the back step.

Good thing they send a short survey form to the chief each year asking if all the apparatus and stations are still in-service. The chief could always lie, but I think that might violate some NYS laws regarding insurance fraud.

Thanks. Its not according to me. RFD asked me to review their fleet for ISO and how changes would affect the ISO. The 3 engines and a spare came right from ISO's Improvment statement of RFD.

That doesn't mater to ISO. call it what you want, unless they have at least a 2,000 gpm and a 1,500 gpm pump 1st line then they need 3 engines and a spare. If they want to call it 2 frontline and 2 spare, thats ok with ISO, but you need to hit the numbers.

More generous than they may know..............Rye's ISO rating states they need a minimum of 3,500 gpm on their frontline engines and a spare. This will affectivly eliminate the points for a spare.

Tapout, Great post. A minor clarification needs to be added. Most of the numbers everyone else is listing is PPM of CO in air. Yours if I'm not mistaken are the carboxyhemaglobin values (CO in blood). 5 ppm in air is considered normal backround levels (up to 9ppm is considered normal by EPA) and I've find 5ppm to be common in kitchens from normal cooking, small rooms with 2 heavy smokers and even just well insulated homes.

By my count it was 3 questions, which were simple for me, but it appears more difficult for others.

Your right I did not ask about your fire district, I 1st asked why and what type of foam would be used. In my experience 90% of firefighters either use foam improperly or dont understand why they are using foam. You answered my question by stating you did not know what chemicals are found in YOUR fire district. My 2nd question was a general question about how fire fighters gather information about hazards in there district. Yes and I also asked a very simple question for all firefighters. If you thought my questions was an attack on your department, then you could have simply not answered me. Since I do not know which dept you are with and you did respond that your dept. cant answer the question than I guess party time is over and you and your dept needs to get back to work. I sorry you feel I'm a kill joy and I've ruined the topic for you. My intent is to get others to consider this issue and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. To many firefighters have died or been injured because they do not have information available to them. There are many "hard" questions that need to be asked in the fire service. This one fire should open the door to asking "how are we doing" and "can we do it better"? I'm sorry that you feel you are the only one with the RIGHT to ask a question on here. Since you can not answer my general question, then maybe you need to think a little longer about what questions are important in the fire service. If you can not take the heat (of a simple question) get out of the fire. Thank you.

Funny. While a criminal operation is not going to tell local government what its doing. Both the US DEA and the NYS OFPC runs courses that teaches what chemicals and proceses are used and if the members are at the hazmat tech level, they evaluate the chemical properties. We held this class inhouse this April so our members know what to look for and how we should respond to these locations. Last month we held a series of drills with NRPD. They set up a scenario with a home lab (this one was for WMD but its basicly the same process). PD & FD worked together to suit up (level A) and investigate what hazards exist. FD members got the opertunity to "walk thru" the crime scene and learn what they should be aware of. I do not dare to ask what others are doing to prepare, since its pretty clear that we are not interested in protecting ourselves from what should be know hazards in "legal" operations in our own communities.

and lack of curiosity and knowledge kills fire fighters. The building and its contents are the enemy

While no one can ever be 100%, I beleive we have a very good handle on it. Since we have been agressivly enforcing the code we have only found very small amounts of chemicals that were not in our records, on the 209u or in the permit application. The amount of material that is unknown is less than what is found in almost every residential property (which the fire service has no control over). The know chemicals (by inspection, permit or 209-u) are listed by classification under CIDS and are on our mobile data terminals. Unknown chemicals are always a concern, but it apears to me that if you are not agressivly enforcing the code and determining what is out in your response area then doesnt every call have the potential for this? How is everyone else handling it......throw water at it and find out? because if its not pre identified or placarded (and only products in transite commonly are placarded) it is unknown. Why not? This is a major issue that must be addressed!!!!!! What about the other commercial occupancies? If you do not know whats in your district you are responding blind and gambling the lives of your responders and the public. Why does the dept do with the 209-u forms that are sent in? Does anyone in your district enforce the laws? If no one is doing it, then I'd bet there are many locations with chemicals that they should not have or they are being handled incorrectly. I'm sure it is, but we have had 100% compliance. Maybe thats because when they fail to comply with NYS law they are advised that they get to see the judge, he can fine them or close them down. Also when they find out that if they read their insurance policy they may find that they have no coverage if they fail to meet code. The reason I asked was I have seen depts use class A foam, which has some advantages. I have also seen depts use class B, because of "chemicals" in most cases this is a complete waste of time and money ($125/bucket) within a structure.

Apples & Oranges. There is a big difference between a commercial busniess and a high hazard storage facility. The primary chemicals found in a pool supply company are highly toxic and are also highly corrosive. Quantities in a facility thats primary function is to store and sell these products.

Based on this the run-off from every fire should be contained and tested as hazardous, but thats not done. Infact most fires in known chemical facilities do not contain the run-off because when flowing 1,000's of gpm how do you do it? I have been to fires in these facilities and DEC, Health Dept and the USCG at most try to contain it only from waterways and not from ground entry. Have you ever evaluated what mixing these chemicals creat? Do you know what solvents are in the local autobody shop. I have evaluated what is in our shops and a typical home, the potential combinations can be determined using CAMEO. We can also predetermine the hazard zones and if water should or should not be used based on whats stored there. Yes Trichloroethylene is nasty stuff, but its not generally used in anything other than major manufacturing because its a carcinogen. It is not in any of our facilities and should not be in this one. Its a major contminant in water supplies because of use prior to the mid 1970's. If this were a real issue, then IC's would be in trouble for run off at every fire. Because you can breath in those toxins easily. Hard to get contaminated water into the blood stream unless you drink it. Also much of the smoke is toxic with or without these chemicals. The amount of chemicals that might be in the water is minimal whan most places only have 3-6 55 gallon drums, some going up in smoke and the rest being mixed (diluted) with 100,000's of gallons of water.

What type of foam are you suggesting? A or B And why is it an unknown type of chemicals? Doesnt each department know what is used in there district? The law requires that the property owner informs them annually. Note: The above statement is generic, based on the question, not on the local dept.