Newtofire

When I first got on and worked in South Queens where there was lots of private dwelling fires and a fair share of vacant buildings this was very common.  The vacants then had the plywood HUD windows which the the chauffeur would take out.  The outside teams were very aggressive and operated independently.  So the ladder chauffeurs (who were very experienced firefighters from very busy trucks) would routinely take the attic window for VES.  SOP at time was to place the tip against the top of the window or wood and lower the stick.  It really wasn't that long ago but I feel as if we know a lot more.  First of all most people have embraced two in two out to the point that VES is done as a team.  As a firefighter in the Bronx we teamed up for VES (Roof and OV) and I thought it was better.  
 
Most importantly hopefully we think a lot more about coordinating ventilation and it's effects on the overall operation.  The fact is ventilation without water being applied to the seat of the fire is going to make the fire bigger and create flow paths.  So we need to think about why we do it.  If we're going to search for life we will need to isolate the area we are going to search or the fire is coming for us.  If we are going to VEIS we want to minimize the amount of air we are feeding the fire so we should not vent until we are fully geared up and in position.  To me this means facepiece on hood on on the tip of the aerial with your haligan.  This way you break the window, enter, find the door to the room, close it and search.  If you break it with the aerial and then climb up you have given the fire air for probably another minute minimum that will have a high potential of growing the fire.  I will be honest and say this is not how we used to do it but in the past 10 years we have been given some good information that we should use to refine our tactics and work smarter and safer.  Many say we are not thinking about potential victims when we refine these tactics but it's not true.  
 
If you're venting for fire then we need to have water on the fire and I'd argue it's not so critical that we need to use the tip of the aerial.  
 
I guess my point is that I'd rethink the tactic more based on our better understanding of fire dynamics (behavior) over concerns for the health of the aerial ladder.  

 
  These are jobs that if those Port Chester Firefighters had NOT been eliminated, perhaps could have been filled by younger volunteer members currently from within the Town of Port Chester. They sure  MIGHT have had a better chance of becoming a career firefighter if not taken by those Port Chester Firefighters. But can you blame these places like Rye Brook and Rye. Those guys can just step right into these jobs.
 
  So those younger wanna be career firefighters just think about this. Not only did your leaders sell those Port Chester Firefighters down the river, "they did it to you too". So you all can personally thank your Fire Service Leaders for taking a great possible future away from "YOU TOO".  
 
  And for the younger volunteer members OUTSIDE of Port Chester who have any hopes of someday becoming a career firefighter, "just remember what happened here". It won't affect me, but it sure might have an affect on you.

STOP, time for a new topic.

When the Sh** is hitting the fan on the fire floor or the floor above, language frequently gets salty. Anyone who has spent some time in zero visibility and high heat while searching for life, forcing doors, getting a line into position or trying to find their way out would likely agree.

Some years ago I would have agreed with this, but today F@#k this, F@#k that and f@#k the other thing, IS the language of the public realm. Nobody cares how many f@#ks one gives anymore. I mean jeez, just about any movie you see has more F bombs than anything else in the dialogue for Christ's sake.
 
On the video, honestly, if telling a crew to get their line in place and "put the f@#king fire out" over the radio gets them moving to do just that...well then that's A-OK in my book. But hey, my ears lost their virginity a long long time ago so...
 

Given the circumstances they get a by. Sounds like he was calling for a line and it wasn't coming fast enough. I think we all have been in situations where the last thing we are worried about is our language. What is important is they got the job done and went home to their families

Are we really trying to make an issue on this ?   Did you write this from your safe space?  If you have a problem with the way the chief spoke why don't you take a drive to talk to him.  And I'm sure he'll tell you to get the f*** outta his office.  If you're not gonna do that I suggest you stop being a keyboard warrior and focus on something else that matters more 

If that's what it takes to get your point across to get the job done, so be it.
Hope everyone went home safe.
 
We've become so PC and pussified in recent years, it's scary.
Does is sound professional? Maybe not. But the men making these statements are likely some of the most professional in the business. 

Seriously you are upset over language on a fire ground /tac radio?  As long as it's not over main communications talk to each other however you want.  On my jobs tac channel we speak anyway which way to get the job done or get a point across. As long as FCC and scanner buffs listening everywhere don't hear it who cares.  This sounds like more PC BS that doesn't need to be brought up or have a topic thread open about it.  Nice video though hope everyone got home safe. 

I have a question for our Maryland brothers.
Does everyone in MD walk around with a lit match?

Hey guys here for an update-my father was responding to a full assignment on Monday when he suddenly collapsed. My brothers from WPFD used an AED to bring him back almost immediately. He went in for surgery yesterday and all went well. The doctors expect him to make a full recovery. Thank you for all your thoughts and prayers.

can you say "Home Rule"

16fire5... Cap, at first glance, it looks like we are at opposite ends of the spectrum, old vs, new and so on, but I think we are much closer than it looks. I also consider FDNY and LA County as real FDs. (not so sure about Chicago). These departments take a theory and try it out in a controlled situation. They will analyze it and discuss it until they are happy with it or throw it out. Often they will either send people out of town to observe its use or talk to whoever is the expert. Then they come out with a bulletin with a complete system for when to use it, when not to and how to use it. Then after it has been used at an actual incident, it is critique by those who operated the job, especially the IC. Take PPV on attack. FDNY has strict rules for its use, a specialized company to use it trained officers to make sure it is needed, set up and operating according to plan, and observers as required for safety. There is also a PPV safety BC to make sure it is having no adverse effects. I think that is what makes a good FD.
So what is a not-so-good FD? I think there are a lot more not-so- good FDs out there and it has nothing to do with size of the department. Let's stick with PPV as our example. Someone in the department, usually the Chief or Training Officer goes to a seminar or watches a video like the LAFD one in this thread. Virtually every word in the video is important. That will tell you when to depart from the norm or the tried and true But this department jumps on the PPV bandwagon without info like input size, output size, when it is counterproductive and so on. The Training Officer does a cursory training session and PPV becomes the first tool placed in front of the building and the fan cranked on. As I said, this happens more often than not. Why? Now that FD can announce "We are a progressive FD 'cause we always use PPV on attack and youse guys are living in the past."
My point is not to abandon all your tactics that served you (and maybe your father) well for so long. There is a time and place for everything. I have ordered a knockdown from the outside for several reasons but the situation and application must be right. As I said, along with the LA video, "Don't wreck your vent." The guys in the not-so-good FDs probably let that one go by the wayside and that is one of the major and basic principals of an outside knock-down. A little twist of the wrist will change your stream to fog and screw up the tactic too.
I agree with you too that the BTU output of the average fire has increased tremendously and lightweight trusses add to the tactical problem of today. I would like to add that we also need more Firefighters. Most FD numbers of FFs have dwindled over the years.

We'll see if any real fire depts. go for this "change." Close all the doors on the inside and hit it from the outside first. It seems to me that if you could get in to close doors, you could get in and put the fire out. This sounds like Lloyd Laymen deja vu...it works in a confined space but that's all.
Bear in mind that when you hit it from the outside, you've created steam inside. You lose much of your visibility for fire attack and search and steamed any victims that might be present.
Sometimes the tactic of an outside knock-down is a good one for perhaps a fully involved basement fire that has made the basement stairs untenable. However, if you do choose the outside knock-down, bear in mind that you may not be able to get down the stairs because it is still the chimney. You're still going to heavy steam and probably zero visibility.
Look at the picture in the article at the beginning of this thread. That's a vent hole, lad. It is only one window, so you don't know the whole situation, but your best bet is to leave it as a vent hole and go inside and bang a straight stream off the ceiling of the fire room then finish it up with a lower angled line. You kept a lot of your visibility for extinguishment and search, so just thank Mother Nature she had the wind blowing in your favor.
All these studies are under controlled conditions and you can do that at an actual incident too. Just get the fire to a manageable point, by tried and true methods, then pick up your radio and say under control.

Smitty, Tex, Fut, Stone and Marsico!!! Hendrie is to new to have been a mentor but has convinced me to stay on the job. AWE YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The beauty of unmarked take home cars, only the most astute buffs recognize these vehicles.

Lets not forget in all of this "Stuff" the fantastic job the Brothers did that night under these extreme circumstances--. rescues were made-- civilians were saved--firefighters put their lives on the line for the citizens of Mt Vernon.
To any firefighter pulling up on a scene and being told that people were trapped in side--chills run up and down your spine--your training kicks into high gear and you go to work doing the best you can. Those firefighters and Officers that night were sworn to protect the citizens of Mount Vernon and they did it to the best of their ability. 2 men 3 men it didn't matter - people were trapped and they went to work, knowing full well that at any time it could be them in trouble...it didn't matter- they did it any way. For that the people of Mt Vernon should be proud of firefighters and Officers of FDMV.
Let politics take its course--it will all shake out--but FDMV did a yeoman's job that night.
Just my thoughts

Strong work by brother Yannuzzi!

Awe Yeah!!!!!!!!!!

Now that many have adequate fireground handi-talkies for use at a fire scene, thus not interfering with the dispatch frequency and visa versa, why at a routine fire must mutual aid companies switch to a county channel if these units have compatablity with the local frequency. Doing this the relocated units have no idea what is going on with the fire and what to expect unless they constantly switch the radio and the folks at the fire have no idea what is going on in the rest of the City unless they do the same..
Certainly, a massive event with many units coming in, a common frequency would be warranted

I have no problem with NYS test. Problem I have is waiting 6months. Many other places give you results a lot quicker. There a few other minor things that fall under NYS civil service law that the county or towns can't change that I would.

1) Why should we waste time looking to change a system that can not be changed without permission of the federal courts? In watching what the courts are doing with FDNY, they have made it clear that it could be much worst if we open this can of worms up.
2) One thing it does, is determine if an applicant is smart enough to use a pencil and paper. Can't tell you how many "smart" people can't fill out those cards and get all the answers in the corrisponding boxes.
3) then you are hearing what you want. When 500 - 1,000 people take a test that 6-20 will get hired, and its not "passing" the physical agility is being physically more capabile since for 80% of Westchester Hirings is competative scored. If you do not work hard for it you will not get hired. They are not getting handed a job for showing up.
4) I'd like to know their work history etc. Just because they worked hard to get the medic does not mean they did not turn into a poor paramedic. I have seen more than a few that can not make it 1 flight of stairs (without turnouts and hose, etc.) because they are in such poor physical shap. I would much rather have a dedicated hard worker, who really wants the job, because they always want to be a FF, than a paramedic who only wants it because he does not like his current employment and the pension.
5) Being both and having taught both I can say you are wrong. It is harder to pass paramedic, but it is much harder to become a firefighter. Its not handed to you you have to score better than 1,000 other candidates.
6) Yes, a competitive test that if you do not know your stuff you will most likely score low and not get promoted. It absolutely is career advancement. The irony is for FDNY Paramedics career advancement is becoming a firefighter, because there are few opertunities in EMS for career advancement.
7) Wrong, Civil service law does not require taking him. It allows for 3 to interview for 1 position and the best candidate even if he/she does not have the best score can be hired.
8) No it says that PD & FD jobs (and RN, PA etc.) are better and everyone I ever worked with as a medic was looking for how to "advance" out of EMS.

I think I might hire the construction laborer. If you had a shi*^y job, at least you realize what a good job firefighting is. If after all his education, aptitude, certifications and so on, the laborer still beat him by a point. That says a lot for that laborer. Maybe he never had enough money to pay for higher education. Maybe he bought a couple of prep books and studied every chance he got.
One thing you do know is that he has a job that requires hard work at sometimes menial tasks, and sometimes for hours at a time. (Sound familiar to those firefighters out there?) And amazingly he still beat the paramedic by a point!
Paramedics, don't get your knickers in a knot. I still like you and I'm not the one who picked "paramedic vs. laborer" to be the example. When the Yankees play the Red Sox, if Boston scores just one more run than the Yankees, guess who loses?
The test is given every four years because the demand on jobs isn't there. If the test were every year the b**** would be "Why do they give the test every year to 1000 people and then hire only 50 a year?
Scantron tests that take six months for a list to be posted is beyond me. You'll just have to ask somebody else about how that works.
Qualifying before hiring is done in Florida. See how many people are disgruntled because they spent so much time and money qualifying and never got hired. Does the statement "You have to be a firefighter before you can become a firefighter" make any sense to you?

I might be biased because I got the job, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is. If you want to be a Firefighter, then you should have a "whatever it takes" attitude to get on.

I almost started crying this morning after I read the interview from the Journal News. These were Doctors and Lawyers and really good people who took part in the menacing of NYC and the citizens of the world enjoying a nice Sunday drive with their family. The riders were law abiding citizens and just enjoying the weather as well. The stars were misaligned when these 2 different worlds met and havoc created on the West Side Highway. Ok I am only being sarcastic here my friends. Live by the sword, die by the sword you skells!! I would have ran over 50 more of you if you surrounded me and my family!!!!!!!!!! ( side note that I ride a Harley and don't condone the actions of these " Bikers" )