FirNaTine

Well s*** then Im transferring to Europe! That's awesome!

Maybe it's their assigned County Number?

Oh stop Barry, now your just being silly! 20 one man rigs. Your really stretching it now Pal. Besides don't worry about GB and Germany, if they're like other European Nations they think we US FFs are crazy for doing interior attacks anyway. 6 guys on a rig? What's their top salary? Let'em make what guys here make and they'll drop their numbers. Anyway hope you have a very Happy and Healthy New Year there Capt! Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.

Even if that 4th man is a block or two away making a hydrant because their SOP is a Forward Lay? In which the 4 man Engine now becomes a 3 man Engine or like Barry said a 1 man Engine if the Officer is being an officer and not helping the one backstep man stretch line.

Who in God's name is reporting 67, 896 first of all? When was that census taken 1950? Completely false!! As far as fewer Companies with more staffing on each I have a problem with that too and never mind what NIOSH thinks. Again they are not the ones actually performing Fire Suppression, they're only making suggestions from so called studies. Was never a big fan of robbing Peter to pay Paul and putting rigs oos to increase the staffing on others. Ive witnessed on numerous occasions a 3man Engine Co(Off/2FF) do an outstanding Job and do just as much as a 4 man Co preventing a Job becoming greater then it was. Did NIOSH and OSHA ever take into consideration that FDs due more then just wait around for the Big One. Are they aware FD's now respond on EMS; stuck elevators; car accidents; water leaks; gas leaks; CO investigations; Lockouts; etc.etc.etc. You say 4(4 man) Engines and 2(4 man ) trucks(24 total) is enough for a City like MT.Vernon because Equipment doesn't put out fires men do. So what happens when 2 of those Engines are out on EMS runs( more so then often) and 1 Truck is out on a stuck elevator or CO investigation( very good possibility and also happens quite often)? Now you have 2 Engines and 1 Ladder responding to a structure fire with 12 guys, less the 2 MPO's and now your down to 10. Is that enough? How about we play the same scenario out with 5 Engines(3man) and 3 Ladders(3man). Granted, you would only have 3 more for a total of 13(15 less 2MPOs) but like I said earlier Ive seen 3 men do a lot and I think it's allot better then 10 but surely still inadequate obviously. Not to mention the more rigs you have the more security your provided in case something happens to one of your apparatus while responding or while there, whether it be mechanical, mva while enroute, frozen hydrant, etc etc. which Im sure we've all experienced on more then one occasion. Personally speaking Id rather have more apps. with less manpower as a Duty Officer then less apps. with more manpower. Im at a better advantage and can use my extra equipment as I see fit. The more toys I feel you have in your back pocket to play with the better off not only will your members be but the citizens we took an oath to protect. The more apps you have the more calls you can cover and won't find yourself shorthanded scrambling for resources when the s*** hits the fan. If I was a Duty Officer and given a roster of 28 men and told to place them where I see fit I would actually rather see 6 Engines(3man) and 3 Trucks(3man) then say 4 Engines(5 man) and 2 Trucks(4man). Again JMO, but Im really getting tired of people who aren't out on the front lines and conducting studies telling those of us who are actually in the trenches how to run things. Once again this horse has been beaten enough so Im tapping out.

Spot on ltrob! Ive heard it with my own ears from Politicians including Mayors. Their thought is why should we hire more ffs or open a new station if we have neighboring Depts who will come and assist us. No need to increase our staffing. So as long as everyone keeps running to each others aid nobody will ever benefit except the Politicians.

A City 4 square miles with 80.000 plus needs more then what the Standards say especially if they have a heavy Fire Load such as a City like MT.Vernon, no? Who knows best guys that work there or some pencil pusher. Maybe the "Powers to Be" should only sign the M/A Plan with the Stipulation that they will" play in all the other rain deer games" if they can afford to without putting their own members and their taxpayers in harms way? Maybe some Depts should refuse to go into other Municipalities if they are constantly abusing the Plan. I believe YFD is last on the list to go to MT.Vernon and will only spend a certain amount of time there before they leave, like New Rochelle has done on occasion. I think it's time for the Mayors of these other Municipalities to get involved and put some pressure on those of the Municipalities that are abusing the Plan, along with the Top Brass of these locales. JMO

Shut your mouth and take an interest in your Job learning as much as you can not just on calls but within the Station. Id like to say respect the "Senior Guys" but in todays Fire Service many of the so called "Senior Men" seem to know just about as much, if not less, then a "Rookie"! Oh have the times changed!

FDMV only has 4 Engines in service I believe. Why in God's name would they send anyone as stripped as they are. Just can't figure some Depts. rationale out. How do Depts justify such an irresponsible move?

They get what they deserve!

To hire "Competent" Individuals who actually care about the Job!

Ive responded numerous times to neighboring Depts. and they usually assign a Chief and Line Officer(guide) to assist you. Do I really need a Chief from my own Dept with me as well when he may be more beneficial and of some use staying within his own boundaries? Years ago yes when we were all on different frequencies but now we can all communicate with each other. Besides who knows their municipality better a Chief from a neighboring Dept. or one that's been working there for yrs. If you respond to the scene or a subsequent Job then sure maybe they can respond but like I said that's far and few between. I don't think it's a life and death situation if a Commanding Officer responds on M/A especially to standby in qrts.

The issue isn't if YFD had problem with said policy the real issue is a Dept. not wanting to be the "bad guy" and sending their apparatus and skeleton crew(Not complying with NFPA 1710) to a Municipality that does comply with NFPA 1710, who in turn won't reciprocate with M/A. Personally I really don't need a Commanding Officer either to standby in Quarters if the apparatus(s) already have a Line Officer(s) anyway. I can see maybe if they're going to the scene but with YFD that is rare. I don't know why YFD is calling some of these understaffed and equipped Depts. anyway. They should sign a M/A with FDNY but that may upset a lot of individuals who want to go and play in the next towns sandbox.

Absolutely ltrob I have also witnessed this so called "self dispatching" policy aka "Buffing" by high ranking Officers. What I don't understand is many times they're from Depts who themselves constantly beat the drum about a lack of manpower; layoffs; closing of Stations and Companies; etc.. etc... Another thing that perplexes me is how can a Dept. who complains to no avail about these ever so important and justified life and death issues can even think about sending their already understaffed Dept. on M/A, especially to a Dept. who refuses to do the same for them. What a f****** Joke the Fire Service in Westchester has become!

Some "Senior Men" today don't even deserve that title nor respect. Ive seen the Senior guy know about as much if not less then a Probie these Days. Then again what do we expect if we continue to lower the Standards and just give the Job away!

How about just do your Job and let's stop looking for ribbons and praise. I see too so often guys want a ticket tape parade for doing their Job which is usually just the Basics. I always love the Officers who tell their men "good job fellows as they're looking at the smoldering ruins of what was somebody's residence. The caliber of people becoming Career/Volunteer FFs has changed so drastically that just a guy hitting a hydrant properly has become a big deal to some or for that matter even knowing the address of the incident and how to get there has become a big accomplishment! Just do your Job!

I would hope a School Teacher would not Volunteer at all. After all why would somebody in a Union be a Hypocrite and Volunteer for anything if not getting Paid! Right fellow Union Brothers? Yeah Right!

Absolutely Cogs and add to that hiring competent individuals who can understand, grasp and remember most of what they're taught so it is done right!

Like a" three ring circus" as usual!

Only the Italian ones!

/ Dept. Mechanic!

Depends on the Municipality I believe Barry. Im almost positive many yrs ago my Dept. use to have a separate Civil Service Exam for "Chief of the Dept." that all DCs would take. Now it's a handpicked Job by the Mayor.

There's a big difference. One is a Puppet and will do as the Mayor says or else(Appointed) and the other(Civil Service) has more liberty to speak his mind and stick up for his men. Ill take the latter of the two, not the $ucking Lacky "Yes Man"! FD's should end this Policy it does more Harm then Good! Make it Civil Service and give it to highest scoring individual. Enough of this B/S already!

Your right Chief, they once did care until they sold their Souls and lowered the Standards to reach Quotas! Can't put "Quotas" before "Quality" in the long run everybody suffers!

One from very far away!