Monty

It's up to each individual municipality.
 
But typically most don't have any official residency requirements.

It appears we're straying from the topic, but without a doubt I can tell you that there has to be a place for those FD's that are between no career staff and those who are completely staffed to cover the majority of their structures fires on their own. Some of you live in areas where the population and finances clearly should allow for a properly staffed career FD. Many of us (most of the country) do not live in the dense urban/suburban areas where that it reality.
If my FD demanded to be staffed so that we could have 23 FT personnel on the first alarm assignment our budget alone would exceed the rest of the municipal budget combined. So, what are we to do? Eliminate all FT staff since we can't meet this standard? That's better in your myopic view? We won't get to that level in my lifetime, right now we hope to remain at current staff, and that's an annual fight.
While we must acknowledge that running with 5 people as Firemedic notes is not enough for a structure fire, outside of the Metro FD world, few companies run with 5. So we have to treat our little crew as if their just a single first due company. Some places they ride all on one apparatus, some places more. Upon arrival, at least on my job, they all function as one and more often than not ensure the first line is positioned and operating. What others do simultaneously, we do consecutively? Optimal? No. Functional? Most of the time? Dangerous? As dangerous as the officers allow. We know there isn't a third due engine for 10 minutes, so we have to adjust our operation.
Two weeks ago my dept. had two structure fires a few days apart. In both cases, the first (and only) line was in operation in under 10 minutes from the time 911 was accessed. In the first case the fire in a SFD was knocked down as it extended from the garage into the house via a failed exterior window. Had we been a VFD or paid call like all around us, the fire surely would have been much more significant as the next in call company was 17 minutes from 911 pick-up. The second fire was in an apartment building with similar results. So while we got our 23 man staffing at some point, the initial 6 man crew had both fires under control before anyone else arrived. It's hard to imagine this is barely better than nothing?
Some of the comments imply there should be no FD that employs any less than 23 FT personnel per tour? So VFD or minimum of 69 man Career FD (that's only 3 tour system)?
These issues are not because the FD doesn't want safer better staffing, it's because the taxpayers are willing to accept a lesser service for less money. The sad part is when FDs and Chief's fail to show the reduction in service.This is not defending understaffing, it's merely understanding reality for a particular area.
I'm certain no one can convince the taxpayers that we need five times our budget to meet a standard that won't guarantee any noticeable difference in the results they get now. And again, not that we don't want for better staffing, but NFPA 1710 and 2 in 2 out haven't been around for much more than 15 years, so how might anyone expect to suddenly grow the majority of FD's in that time?

I'll have to disagree with you on this one as my experiences in a small career department who's minimum on-duty staffing is "5 guys" says otherwise.
Now, I don't mean this as argumentative as it may sound and please don't mistake my comment as saying anything close to "5 guys" being adequate on-duty staffing, because it certainly isn't anywhere close to it when we pull up to a working fire. However, we see a good bit of fire and just want to make the point that what we can and have accomplished with just "5 guys" (before reinforcements arrive) is anything but "useless". It's certainly not ideal, but unfortunately, it is our reality and that of many other small career departments out there.

The real problem is not if they should consolidate, its how can MV participate equally? YFD provides excellent fire protection to its citizens, while the political climate in MV is to rely on the neighbors.
The real issue is every career and combo will call back off duty firefighters to man spare apparatus or provide additional personnel to the scene during a major emergency, EXCEPT Mt Vernon. The MV Mayor expects everyone around them to pick up that cost.

Date: 2-3-15
Time: 18:35
Location: Commerce St at the Metro North Harlem Line grade Crossing (adjacent to the Taconic State Parkway)
District: Valhalla
Channel: Fire 11, Fireground 8
Weather: 20 Degrees, Partly Cloudy, Light Wind, with snow and ice covering ground from storm yesterday
Units: (See Below)

Description: 5:45PM Metro North Harlem line train to Southeast from Grand Central struck SUV standing at gated grade crossing. Estimated 850+ people on board train, and at least 12 injuries and 6 fatalities. MCI declared. Train is an "M-7" electric and powered by 3rd rail. Both car and train reported to be on fire.
Units:
Valhalla FD Engine 82, Engine 83, Engine 84, Tower Ladder 49, Rescue 9, Utility 59
Hawthorne FD Engine 154
North White Plains FD Engine 74, C-2321
Elmsford FD Engine 237
Thornwood FD Engine 88, Tower Ladder 1
Briarcliff FD Rescue 37 (Cascade)
Ossining FD Engine 99 and Tower Ladder 42 (Relocate Valhalla)
Somers FD Utility 88, Car 2445 (Rehab Unit)
Pleasantville FD Engine 91 (Relocate Hawthorne FD)
Metro North FD
Valhalla VAC 82-B-1, 82-B-2
White Plains EMS (Transcare) 31-A-2
Mount Pleasant Medic (Transcare) 37-M-1
Empress EMS 87-A-1
Hawthorne FD EMS 63-B-1, 63-B-2
Pleasantville VAC 76-B-1, 76-B-3, 7605 (Rehab Unit)
Chappaqua VAC (Relocate)
Westchester EMS 45-M-1 (Relocate), 40-A-9
Cortlandt VAC 8805 (Rehab Unit)
Mount Pleasant PD
Greenburgh PD
Yonkers PD METU (MCI Bus)
MTA PD
Westchester County PD Patrol, ESU, Aviation, SOD, Commanders, LT1
NYSP Patrol, BCI
Westchester County ME Medical Examiner
WCDES Battalion 11, County Car 1, County Car 4, EMS 10, Utility 106 w/ Light Tower trailer and ARFF cans,
WCDES Technical Rescue Team Rescue 77, Utility 77, Car 2001
Notes:
19:56 Multiple Bee-Line buses enroute to transport stranded commuters
20:01 60 Control advising units not to use the term "bus" for ambulance as they have actual buses enroute and it is causing confusion
**Please reply to this thread with assigned units, additional information, corrections, and or updates if you have them**

I was just going to post this too. Some interesting comments. Wonder if Buffalo FD has headsets now? Wonder what the union has to say about this and the use of headsets?
Interestingly there is no mention of the union in the article - wonder what their stand is. Did the lawyer just go out to all the firefighters and invite them to sue? And do they have proof of above normal hearing loss?
I believe we should be protected as much as possible and we should be compensated for on the job injuries - but this seems like maybe it's stretching it.

I was just going to post this too. Some interesting comments. Wonder if Buffalo FD has headsets now? Wonder what the union has to say about this and the use of headsets?
Interestingly there is no mention of the union in the article - wonder what their stand is. Did the lawyer just go out to all the firefighters and invite them to sue? And do they have proof of above normal hearing loss?
I believe we should be protected as much as possible and we should be compensated for on the job injuries - but this seems like maybe it's stretching it.

To clarify. The County did not refuse to dispatch the METU. I requested it and was advised through the proper dispatch procedure that the vehicle was not yet placed in service and that it was not available. This is no different than any other fire apparatus or ambulance. The County did coordinate the dispatch of two Bee Line buses in its place. Many of you need to climb out of your glass house and visit the real world. Stop posting and spreading rumors before knowing the facts.

I am generally unopposed to Monday Morning Quarterbacking. However, on this one I am hesitant. I do not know the whole story here, the assignment for that piece of apparatus, what the engine driver was trying to accomplish, or most importantly, where that rig went after the video ended. I hate the bullish mentality that many firefighters develop these days..."we are the fire department and we can do whatever we want." It is my belief that there a lot of overzealous idiots in this business who think its "cool" to force a door for an automatic alarm, break every window in the house for an incipient burn in a rubbish can, or push someone's car out of the way because they want their engine 10 feet closer to the fire. That said, I have 2 opinions on the mater:
The first opinion is that the engine doesn't belong in front of that fire to begin with! The only thing that would be achieved in this instance would be that the engine would block needed access for a ladder truck that should occupy the flanking position on the corner of that building. After all, we can always add more lengths of hose, but we can't add another fly to the ladder. That engine should be parked out of the way somewhere down the street and the amount of hose needed should be pulled to the fire building.
The second opinion that I have here is that I do not know the specific assignment of that engine and therefore cannot say that pushing those cop cars out of the way wasn't justified. If there were guys screaming for water and that engine was assigned to hit the plug, then maybe it was urgent that they squeeze by to get water to the attack engine. If there were people hanging out of windows and the ladder truck was behind them, maybe they needed to get out of its way. I don't know??? But I don't think that waiting 30 seconds for the cop to move his car would have made much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.
My strongest opinion on the matter is that there are plenty of young and impressionable firefighters who read this blog who should take the actions demonstrated in this video with a grain of salt. There are many potential negative outcomes of performing a risky maneuver like the one in this video:
1. The two cars being pushed could have turned sideways and completely blocked the engine's access to the fire.
2. The car being pushed could have struck the engine's tire, flattening it, and leaving the engine unable to reach its destination.
3. The cars could have jumped the curb and taken out an unseen hydrant compromising the water source needed for the fire.
4. The actions of the driver could cause "bad blood" between the fire department and police department resulting in endless headaches during future operations.
As the previous post stated, "sometimes we have to do a little damage to get the job done." BUT DON'T GO LOOKING FOR IT! This should be viewed as an unfortunate event that should be avoided at all costs and not a great opportunity. There are far too many people (morons) in this industry who will think that this video "awesome." So I don't think that we should be cheerleaders here to feed those with an overly aggressive mentality.

http://www.firehouse.com/news/11694709/hydropower-plant-seeing-250k-from-fire-companies-for-damage
Seems like this is a case of throwing everything against the wall to see if it sticks. My guess is that they think they'll get a settlement from some of the parties involved. I hope they don't. It will be interesting to see how it plays out though. Isn't this what you pay insurance for? And as for mutual aid in NY - I thought all the liability was with the home department (unless maybe gross negligence).

I have a question, how many firefighters have died in the initial phases of an incident due to disregarding 2 in- 2 out?
I know roughly 100 of us die annually, but about 1/2 of those LODDs are vehicle accidents, heart attacks ect leaving the other 1/2 as actual fireground deaths due to the fire. Now I've been around awhile and I do my best to keep up on LODD reports and I can't really think of any incidents where disregarding the 2 in 2 out rule was a contributing factor. To the best of my knowledge (and I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge may be limited) the vast majority of fireground deaths have happened when a good number of FFs are on scene, operations are well under way and in most if not all cases a FAST was assembled and ready to go.
Personally I find the 2 in - 2 out rule to be overkill and another attempt to make things safer that ultimately makes them less safe.

As a former FDNY EMS paramedic I was assigned to the Dignitary Protection Unit. This was an overtime unit staffed by paramedics who were interviewed by the Secret Service and went through extensive background checks and training. An ambulance rode at the rear of every motorcade.
During motorcade operatations the secret service never rode in the ambulance as many believe. We had Secret Service radios with special code names that changed every assignment. We would sleep in the ambulance while the president was staying in the Waldorf or some other high end hotel. Not very glamorous. There was a lot of hurry up and then wait that dragged on for hours.
During training it was stressed that you would never treat the President and he would never be in your ambulance. We were there to treat the collateral damage as the secret service calls the poor stiff working or riding in the motorcade who might get hurt. I actually did treat a motorcycle cop who dumped his bike escorting the motorcade. Boy did he feel like an idiot. The Secret Service also stated they would not hesitate to shoot us if we were in their way when protecting the President. We actually had to sign documents acknowledging that we were made aware of this.
We routinely rode into Westchester NJ and Connecticut. We were advised that notifications were made to local state DOH and regional EMS council about us operating in their jurisdiction. This was over 15 years ago I cannot say what arrangements are in place today. My guess with Mobile Life operating in Westchester is because they have received Secret Service clearance to operate in a Presidential motorcade.
This was a neat gig and gave me access to a lot of places most people will never go. I have a picture with the vice president on the tarmac at JFK in front of Air Force 1. Never made it into the plane though

Last time I looked Optimum didn't carry the channel in Westchester. Maybe they do now? Or we can hope they do in the near future.

One might assume that the Fire Chief has either been directed by the municipality to assist the VAC or has gotten approval to do so, in which case he'd like say that is what you get when you don't fully fund a FD. How is this any different than if the same engine is tied up on a BS run? The community generally determines the level of risk they're willing to accept vs. the costs. I get the thought process, but there is a point where many (most) communities will not fund staffed fire apparatus due to the low volume of fire calls. This outcry over a one man engine?
For many of us underfunded/understaffed FD's, you take any excuse you can to get another firefighter on shift. If I hire someone to do EMS and that occurs 2 to 3 times a day, the other 5, 8, 10, 0r 22 hours a shift I have one more on duty firefighter. That's a win in small town America. The key is being honest with the taxpayer about what their getting and the risks, ultimately they'll decide the level they are comfortable with.
I might add that in small town America where the daily fire problem is little to non-existent, a citizen in distress is an active emergency that is addressed, we don't withhold care "in case something else happens", when statistically it won't. As call volumes grow, the staff either needs to grow with it, or the second call is slower to be answered, again, at the final determination of the taxpayers. All you can do is educate them, falsely hiding your deficiencies only harms the public and the membership.

I will try to add some historical insight here, but I might get it a bit wrong. I have been a Corlandt "35 medic" a few years now.
The Town of Cortlandt got an ALS flycar license, set up a program and started running its system. We are NOT Town empolyees. We technically work for Hudson Valley Hospital. The Town pays HVH to pay us. That way we don't have to be at all concerned about getting any of the generous benefits that other governement employees are burdened with, like LOD injury pay, pension or insurance. It makes for pretty low budgets. The TOC library gets a bigger budget than the CRP does.
After the system began, the City of Peeksill asked if they could join. PFD had for some reason a large number of FF's who were medics. So a deal was struck that CRP would become CPRP. More gear and trucks would be bought and the two flycasrs would be deployed and staffed by the FF's from PFD, as noted peviously- engine goes OOS when it's FF needs to be a medic, AND the flycar is OOS when it's medic needs to be a fireman. I think COP pays some $$$ to TOC for cost of gear, trucks etc. $50,000/year sounds familiar. When the PFD staff are doing medical calls, they are NOT under the FD's control, and I think I recall that was their demand. They operate under the CPRP director. They are called "39 medic" since they are on a different tone-out channel, but when being a medic they opeate under the CPRP director.
Whoever is closest to the call gets it. 35 medics get called into Peekskill and 39 medics get call out Cortlandt. There can be one or two 35 and 39 medics on, so numbers can be 2-4 flycars, based on scheduleing factors. These numbers are VERY carefully monitored by COP admin, and they are always looking to avoid paying TOC using numbers as ammo, saying they do more, so should pay less. As far as medics on BLS... I have no issue with it. I was an EMT before I became a medic. My patch says EMT on it. If you need medical help, I am there for you. If you want to pay me medic pay to do BLS, that is fine. If I am not available due to that, well there are bosses to deal with that. I take care of the sick and injured. The CRP policy is that the medic on the call is to be asked if they will ride in a BLS. We can say "No". Of course that leaves the medic stranded with the pt awaiting an ambulance from somewhere.
If there is low engine availability on the PFD end due to the deal they wanted and got, then it seems the cheapest thing to do is to have COP hire civilian medics to staff those "39" trucks, or pay TOC to do it. THAT is a COP decision, and not up to the minions of EMT bravo. I doubt my brother 39 guys would be happy about it either.
They cannot run ALS ambulances as they don't have a license to do that. Empress puts ONE EMT at PVAC. PVAC is VERY busy and often has multiple calls.

All 'bout the Benjamin's.

What if? What if? What if?
You can "what if" things to death and the bottom line always seems to be we respond to the call we have. We don't decline to respond so we can remain available for the call that we MAY get.
What if Engines 131 and 134 are on another FIRE call when your hypothetical structure fire comes in across town? Does it matter that the call is EMS or FIRE? It shouldn't. It's still our customer calling for help.

From a dispatcher's point of view, arrival size-up can be valuable. For example, if we know we received what sounded like a legit call for a structure fire, and the first unit on scene reported, "Nothing showing.", we would immediately initiate a rapid supervisor's review of the 911 phone call and ANI data. Excited citizens on untraceable cell phones give less than reliable info sometimes.
We also knew that "Nothing showing." was understood by all departments in the county to mean an initial, rapid size-up from the street as the first unit arrives, and that investigation would be initiated and a better report was to follow. Having a good definition of a phrase like this in place puts it in the right context.

Wrong!
"Nothing showing" clearly means that there is no obviously visible signs of a fire from the street.
I've been to a lot of fires in my 20+ years in the fire service and there have been very, very few instances in which there were absolutely no visible indicators of a fire of any significance upon the first unit's arrival. I would suspect that my experience is consistent with the vast majority of the fire service. I would submit that if 90+% of the time when you arrive, there is no visible indicators of a fire and subsequent investigation finds that there is in fact, no fire, then "nothing showing" clearly does mean something. The report of "nothing showing" would mean that there's a very high likelihood that there is not a fire of any significance in progress at that location.
Yes, there could be a fire hiding somewhere waiting to break out, particularly in a commercial building vs a SFD, but to take the stance that the lack of exterior visual clues is irrelevant is simply irresponsible.
The report of "nothing showing" or use of different terminology conveying a similar meaning is not where the problem lies. The problem lies with your personnel and leadership if they show up and are not ready for battle.

As for facts I believe all the requirements for professional firefighters in NYS kick in if you department employs 6 or more staff. If less no 229, no 100 hours in service ect. There's even some paid drivers left in the state meaning that's their civil service title. The long island issue is separate since they have civil service employees in titles like janitor being used as career staff.

He has been found.
I believe he was in the Maryknoll vicinity.

I'm still trying to figure out why there is still a Greenville FD. Or for that matter Fairview or Hartsdale. It seems many of their calls requires mutual aid from one or the other, If ever there was a case for consolidation it would be these three folding in with White Plains. And, yea yea yea it probably has something to do with some antiquated BS laws that nobody ever seems able to change so this is just a throw away comment.
With regard to Squaaaad, maybe the dispatcher is a fan of Two and a Half men and this is a variation on Squaaaaaaab if you're familiar with that episode.

A Signal 30 Structure Fire at 217 Osbourne Rd. in the Town of Colonie. Fire started in garage and quickly spread to house. Fire duration is approximately 2 hours and 30 minutes which included an evacuation due to possible roof collapse.
Unit's Operating:
Shaker Road-Loudonville Fire Department
Car 51
Car 53
Safety 9
M-480
Engine 445
Engine 448
Truck 9
Fuller Road Fire Department
Car 21
Car 22
Rescue 3
West Albany Fire Department
Car 66
Car 67
Engine 459
Shuyler Heights Fire Department
Car 47
Truck 8
Colonie EMS
TSU 2 (Supervisor)
Ambulance 652
Latham Fire Department
(Cover Company) Unknown apparatus

Problem was - I didn't run the red light. The Judge was smart enough to realize this. She questioned the PO after his statement to confirm that I was turning left and had a green light. When he said yes - she dismissed the case (on lack of evidence or something similar to that).
I am very happy that it was dismissed even with my time spent preparing for it and fighting it.
However, I was pissed that I got written the ticket in the first place for something I didn't do - but I'm big enough to get over that, eventually

So, to follow up on this. I went to the DMV today, had a bunch of photos, extract of the V&T law, some news articles. Judge heard the PO's testimony and dismissed the summons without me saying anything!
I did upset the judge a bit afterwards as the PO was clueless as to why the ticket was dismissed and I tried to explain my understanding of the situation.