Monty

Here's an interesting letter from OSHA - my take is that essentially pretty much everyone (PD, DPW, FF, etc) requires awareness. To respond to a dispatched (possible) Hazmat call, you need to be at the operations level per the link. As for hours it looks like Awareness is 8, Operations is 16 (combined gives you 24) + the annual (8hr?) refresher. I'm sure there's specific info in the CFR but I just did a quick google. CFR 1910.120(e) covers the training requirements - but of course that's not simple English Incidentally, as Incident Commander, my understanding is that you are responsible for the MA you call - might be something to think about based on Bnechis earlier information.

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned earlier. I know there are still places where DUI's may be swept under the carpet - but I think / hope this is becoming rarer. Something to think about with the local parade season just around the corner ..... Fortunately in this case it just seems to be property damage - and of course reputation. From firefighter close calls (I believe this doesn't follow the law of the posting policy - but the article does clearly state it should be passed on to fire-fighters) :

Unfortunately - another law that a lot of people turn a blind eye to. Like many other things, it's been OK for the last 999 responses - but one day, that one in a million chance will happen. Something will go wrong. Maybe the missing training wouldn't have changed the situation (maybe it would) but I'm sure lack of training/qualification is going to come up and be a problem. Sorry for the little digression Chris At least I got that off my chest

Something that caught my eye this morning as I was catching up on some news from the BBC News Site (talking about bad weather and high winds) Seems pretty visible, without a cacophany of lights to blind everyone

I think you have many valid points here. A lot of this is personal responsibility. Yes, it should be an example from the top, but a lot can be done by an individual, learning either by themselves or with the help of others. Just because the Chief doesn't use or enforce seat belts doesn't mean the individual can't wear them. After following the secret list, I've started wearing my belt on virtually all calls (yes, I'm not perfect - not yet anyway ), I've shared some of that info at meetings and more people are wearing them. As has been talked about in other threads, a lot of this can fall under the risk / reward category. The pictures I found most interesting were the ones on the second set with FF's with blackened faces. That stuff does not look healthy. Maybe you wont feel anything now - but how about when you're 70? Think of the WTC and health issues arising from there. Sure that's extremely compressed but I believe all these small event add up and could produce the same effect down the road.

Wow - was it 5 years already? That was my first big call I buffed in this area How time flies. Actually had a couple of pictures from there published in the NYS Association of Fire Chiefs magazine. I also dragged along my 4 yo son - he quickly got cold and disinterested. Probably scarred him for life now

Interesting subject. So, I'm one of those that has a bailout rope and biner in a pouch that is clipped to the waist adjustment on my bunkers. In the past I've been able to get the biner out one handed - I'll have to try it again now though I don't have a Gemtor - yet. I was wondering if you could use it with a munter hitch for bailout instead of the body belay. After thinking of this, I did see mention of a munter hitch being a last ditch alternative for descent in one of the fire magazines - talking about pick off type emergencies. Anyone tried this? Good question about the radio strap - personally I use the radio pocket. Although I do often use one of the 'box' type lights and throw that over the top of the SCBA. Now if you remember in the heat of the situation, they do have clips, and often seat belt type clips. This isn't something I've thought about before when doing small profile exits. Another thing to look at and think about. Thanks ALS. On the other side of the bunkers I have one of those multi tools from Galls - screwdriver, knife, hose wrench, gas shutoff. I've used it a few times (incidentally has a seat belt cutter that sucks). In my bunker pants I have a pair of wire cutters and a loop of webbing. In my turnouts I have one of the old 35mm cannisters with latex gloves.

LMAO

Just been forwarded this link (http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/yeebsy/BA777/?start=0) of the BA777 crash at Heathrow last month. Lots more on the site - just grabbed these couple as a quick example / teaser. Interestingly found this bizarre photoshop (I assume) too http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g144/PhilGz/BA777.jpg beware some people / organizations may find this inappropriate or distasteful

Just came across this news article on a large fire at Camden Market in London. Not a great picture - but topical maybe ...

Beats me - never worked with one. But ... it looks like they are footing the ladder more than raising it. Letting the other two guys do the donkey work. I guess if you only have 4 on your crew?

Want to come South and do that drill here Quite a few years ago we went mutual aid to a job where the guy was working on his garage door and the spring let go. I think it was one with the overhead springs - went nicely through the forearm. What made it a bit tricky was that he was about 3' up a step ladder. Other than that - it wasn't too challenging. Think we used our Holmatro (host dept had Hurst) cutters in the end.

Unfortunately - you hit the nail on the head. Some departments, sometimes have monthly training. Oh, sorry, we get a one page flyer to distribute monthly and count that as training. As Bnechis mentions, there's the risk analysis - unfortunately, being applied in the reverse here. We've done it this way for XX years without getting hurt so why do we need seatbelts, why do we need a good seal, why do we need air when we're inside (overhauling), why do we need hazmat training, why do we need BBP training ........ Sorry - been a bad week

I'm inclined to agree with at least some others and say that if you have been provided with a bailout rope and carabiner AND been trained on it - then your department is in compliance with the law. Sure, some of the other systems probably do provide a higher degree of protection - feel free to invest in that yourself. I personally felt that for me a personal rope and carabiner was enough insurance and I got my own a couple of years ago. Not to beat a dead horse, but a lot of this comes down to money. You could take your case to the extreme in many ways - paid FF's, new PPE every year, new trucks every year etc. As a whole, we need to do more risk analysis. I don't know your response district - but is it very likely you are going to be hanging out of a 5 storey window - or a 2 storey window? It will be very interesting to see what happens - I doubt very much anything related to funding is going to pass given the current state of our economy. I'm sure there's also plenty of lobbying by FASNY, NYSAFC, IAFF, IAFC etc that I'd be quite surprised and very interested to see how this plays out.

A lot of UK fire serice trucks still carry them. 13.5m (45ft) seems to be a standard. Killing some time on google I wasn't able to find any examples at incidents, but there are a few training pictures such as: From Hampshire Fire

Date: 02-04-08 Time: 0801hrs Box: 3220 Area: Bronxdale First Due: E-90/L-41/B-20 Location: 2139 White Plains Road (Original Address) X Lydig Ave Description: Fire in a 1-story 150X100 row of taxpayers, corner property. Fire throughout (12) stores- (8) on White Plains Road, (4) on Lydig Ave. Writer: monty, CPAGE, Truck4 (O/S), tbendick (O/S) 0801hrs- L-41 transmitting 10-75 for fire ina taxpayer. 1st Alarm: E-90, 88, 61, 97; L-41, 38, 56FAST; B-20, 18; R-3, Sq-41 (S/C) 0805hrs- B-20 rpts All-Hands On Arrival, S/C extra Engine and Truck. Fire in a store in a 150X100 row taxpayer, corner property. S/C: E-48/L-58 Exposure #1- Street (White Plains Road) Exposure #2- 50X75 1-story taxpayer Expsoure #3- 6-brick OMD with alley seperation. Exposure #4- Street (Lydig Ave) 0808hrs- B-20 rpts fire in (2) stores. 0810hrs- B-20 transmitting 2nd Alarm. Req. all train traffic stopped. TL-41 setting up in front on White Plains Road. 2nd Alarm: E-45, 62, 79, 72/S-2; L-32; B-19 (Safety), 26 (RUL); Rescue B/C, Safety B/C; TAC #1, Field Com. 0815hrs- TL-58 setting up on Lydig at White Plains Road (Exposure 1/4 side). 0818hrs- Div. 7 req. Sat-2 to set up for multi-versals in the street at White Plains X Lydig. 0822hrs- Div. 7 S/C (2) Tower Ladders. S/C: L-50, 31 0825hrs- Div. 7 req. Tower Ladder to Lydig Ave side behind TL-58. 0827hrs- Div. 7 req. Tower Ladder on White Plains Road enter from Bronxdale, come up from the south. 0829hrs- Div. 7 transmitting 3rd Alarm. S/C (2) extra B/C's. Staging Area is White Plains Road X Bronxdale Ave. 3rd Alarm: E-64, 75, 46, 38; B-3 (Staging), 33 (Air Recon); MSU S/C: B-15, 16 0835hrs- Div. 7 req. incoming engine co's to lay into the Tower Ladders. Co's also lining into Exposure #3 to operate from the OMD. 0844hrs- Car 10 rpts fire in (8) stores on White Plains Road, (4) on Lydig Ave. Fire is throughout all stores and into the cockloft. (3) Tower Ladders in operation (41, 58, 31). Numerous handlines in operation with searches delayed due to heavy fire conditions.. D/W/H. 0854hrs- Car 10 S/C (3) extra Trucks, (1) for FAST. Air Recon down due to weather. S/C: L-37FAST, 47, 54 0855hrs- Car 10 rpts heavy fire throughout (12) stores. Setting up a 4th Tower Ladder on White Plains Road (L-50). (3) Multi-Versals in operation with (2) handlines on White Plains Rd. and (2) on Lydig Ave. Co's have a 'water curtain' between fire building and Exposure #3 (OMD). Collapse of the roof of the main fire building. D/W/H. 0857hrs- Car 10 transmitting full 4th Alarm. 4th Alarm: E-42, 96, 81, 89; L-33, 27; Car 11 (Chief Of Rescue), Car 4 (Chief Of Operations) 0910hrs- Car 10 S/C extra Satellite Company. S/C: E-324/S-4 0916hrs- Car 10 rpts fire through the roof. Conditions unchanged. (4) Tower Ladders now in operation. Collapse zone set up. Co's making progress. 0924hrs- Car 10 rpts (4) Tower Ladders, (2) handlines, (4) Multi-Versals in operation. (2) L/S/O out of Exposure #3. D/W/H. 0945hrs- Car 4 transmitting 5th Alarm with S/C extra B/C as Water Resource Chief. 5th Alarm: E-66, 82, 71, 63; L-48, 61 S/C: B-52 1010hrs- Car 4 rpts co's making progress. Had a collapse of the parapet wall on the White Plains Road side of the building, over the last (3) stores. 1036hrs- Car 4 rpts fire darkening down. (5) Civilians being treated at scene by EMS. D/W/H. 1057hrs- P/W/H. Duration (2) Hours (57) Minutes. 1100hrs- S/C (2) Engines, (2) Tower Ladders, (2) B/C's for relief. S/C: E-92, 73; L-51, 22; B-11, 51 1130hrs- Car 10 rpts going down to 2 & 2. U/C.

Great, look forward to following these forums to see what is happening from in my old neck of the world. Incidentally, the link above has a typo in it, it should be http://www.emtbravoupstate.com/

Interesting point - although my understanding is that in NY there is an 8 hour OSHA / PESH annual renewal, annual hazmat awaress training, annual bloodborne pathogens training that is required by law. However, there are places where even that isn't done - or at the very least lip service is paid and documentaiton written up for some iffy situations. Who polices the fire departments for compliance? Is it because of that good ole Home Rule stuff that this isn't such a big issue?

There was a podcast on firehouse.com that I listened to. I forget exactly which one it was, but they talked about a survey that some community did about response times for EMS and Fire. Basically the average homeowner expected a response to be about 10 minutes. They followed this with saying that those in the service know that is too long - the point was to educate the community if you wanted to increase spending. Obviously in this case, the response is going to be longer because it's 10 minutes before the mutual aid is called - so that may need to be revised to make the average home owner happy with the response time!

Was thinking the same thing. Perhaps they're just decoration and a homage to its former life in FDNY

Good piece by WHEC on an incident in Rochester. Close call with a good outcome -

Ironically, Myth Busters had a 007 special on last night that I watched. One of the Myths was causing a propane tank to explode with a 9mm. Basically with a 9mm at 20 feet it wouldn't penetrate the tank. They ended up trying a 30-06 with incendiary rounds and still failed to explode it. For the finale they had a .50 Gatlin Mini-gun. Now that was a pretty impressive bit of footage Hate to be anywhere near the receiving end of one of those things .....

RIP. Thoughts and prayers to Sgt Hein's family.

RIP Brother. Thoughts and prayers for the family. A terrible loss.

Easy - volunteer. Your primary job is administrator, mechanic (that happens to work on emrgency vehicles) that happens to volunteer to fight fires. Now, if you spend over half your work day doing firematic things, responding to calls, daily equipment checks, training, fire prevention, code enforcement (bit of a questionable one as to whether this is firematic) - then you have more of a case for being a career firefighter - with all the normal full benefits. In my personal experience where this has been used, the employees were spending no more than 10-20% on firematic activities. Maybe the folk in WC / LI spend 75% time and it's a different story - don't know what they're actually up to.